GUNS?

Ann said, "We would need to end the whole winner/loser mindset by focusing on
compassion and cooperation over aggressive competition. We would have
to stop giving power to the individuals who control the wealth of the
world. What a risk we will have to take in order to do that. How
frightening is our belief in scarcity - the belief that there is not
enough stuff to go around. We would have to let go of our fear of being
losers."

Ann, I think you put the finger on a major part of the cause. Our socieity is about winning, (sports, politics and business). At one time people would say, "It is not who wins, but how you play the game." That thought got lost in "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" as promoted by Vince Lombardi of the Green Bay Packers.

To be seen as a loser, can be devastating. Trying to prove something, to get attention, may be part of the problem. I'm not an expert in any of this. Just the way I feel about it.

... but Ann, you would never have done the same to your controlling mother. Neither would Alice nor Betty. Hundreds of thousands of children have controlling mothers, but they find coping mechanisms to deal with it. The problem is with the extremes of nature. Men would never go to war without the "kill or be killed" mentality. Sometimes, the inherent survival instincts become twisted and contorted into something far beyond survival. Not surprisingly, removing what these deviants believe to be the cause of their misery does not bring the relief they seek. All they see is the carnage and havoc they caused ... but inside they are just as tormented and, inevitably, turn the gun on themselves.

Tormented? I think some are just looking for their 15 minutes of fame. And in their simple-minded way, this is how they decide to get it.

It is my understanding that the purpose of a gun is to kill.

Abe F. March wrote:

It is my understanding that the purpose of a gun is to kill.

Mine too! Either kill or force someone, out of fear, to acquiesce to the gun owners wishes.

The purpose of a gun is whatever the holder wants it to do. Many have successfully used one to defend themselves against home invasions.

Getting rid of guns will not stop violent behavior in people who are hot-wired for it.

We need to work on finding out what causes the behavior.

Shelagh pointed out that neither Alice, Betty nor me chose to get rid of our controlling mothers. Well, there are a lot of reasons for that, one probably being that we are all women, and this aberrant behavior seems to be limited to men, for the most part.

There is also a matter of degree, and the fact that we had other outlets and support groups....

There are no simple answers.

LC wrote:

The purpose of a gun is whatever the holder wants it to do. Many have successfully used one to defend themselves against home invasions.

How about a good lock on your doors and windows?

There were good locks on the doors and windows at the school, Alice.

We are not going to get rid of guns just yet. People who want them will find a way to get them.

I'm not saying we shouldn't try to control them, but we can't rely on those controls to keep us safe.

We still need to get at the root causes.

Quote :

How about a good lock on your doors and windows?

Why didn't Dr. Petit think of that? (google him)

I think we need security at our schools . Armed security guards.

I am getting rid of my guns--why can't others do so also?

[quote="alj"]Getting rid of guns will not stop violent behavior in people who are hot-wired for it.

We need to work on finding out what causes the behavior./quote]

While we do that, we could make it harder to misbehave by limiting access to guns.

Other countries manage without guns. Why can't we?

Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't pursue that. I am also saying it isn't enough.

During the last few minutes, I've been watching this series of short videos on CBS news:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50137167n

I recommend watching the whole series, because together they cover a lot of the issues and problems.

I also noticed that in between the videos are toy commercials. That brings up another part of the problem. What kinds of toys are being bought? What kind of supervision are our children getting? We have to ask these questions, too, because the perpetrators got started down their paths as children.

There is one statement on one of those videos that may be misleading: that school shootings are becoming all too common. First, as I said yesterday, one school shooting s too common, but I did a search, and if anything, there are fewer than in the past.

We have to be sure what we are talking about. There is a history going back to the 1920's of children and teens bringing guns and other weapons to school - and using them. There have always been incidents of mass shootings; this isn't new. The incidents of mass shootings in schools is limited. Charles Whitman at the University of Texas Tower in the late 60's or early 70's; the Columbine Massacre in Colorado in 1999, the Virginia Tech shooting - there have been some others, but they aren't getting more common - they are becoming less acceptable and more shocking.

We are already beginning the process of change. After Columbine, especially, school security tightened up, and a greater awareness of the mindset of young people who have been extreme outsiders, and what we might be able to do to prevent things from getting to that point.

Thanks, Ann,

The videos were very good.

Obviously the shooter was not normaL

His room was immaculate!

Family members quoted in the HP think he was normal. None so blind as those who won't see, I guess. Of course, this whole article was garbage. What does him being an "honors student" (whatever that means these days) when he was the age of that picture have to do with anything?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/15/adam-lanza-newtown-school-shooter-honors-student_n_2306736.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing8|dl2|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D246281

12/15/2012

This nut case didn't buy the weapons, he stole them from

his mother, what she was doing with those kind of weapons I

would love to know ? My Uncle in Pennsylvania always had guns

in the house, he is a hunter, they were kept locked up in a closet

and that closet door had a large padlock on it, because they had

children n the house and he was cautious for their safety......

Cheers..Joe...

All we know is that they were registered to her. She may even have bought them for him.

Still, it doesn't sound like he had a "normal" home life.

There is still so much we don't know.

alice wrote:

LC wrote:

The purpose of a gun is whatever the holder wants it to do. Many have successfully used one to defend themselves against home invasions.

How about a good lock on your doors and windows?

I did notice when I lived in the UK, they had much better locks for their doors.
It makes sense. CREEPS ARE LAZY!
They go where it is easiest and fastest to get in.

Yes, Alice, the police in the UK put out that very same reminder to householders. If you install a house alarm, burglars will look elsewhere for easy access.

I have to ask, How did this guy get into the school. I know they had locked down doors. Did he shoot the door?

Not all people who are quiet, intellegent 'nerds' are ready to do some mean act against other people. I have been a quiet, nerdy person most of my life, but I never internalized the hate it must take to kill people. It takes some insanity for that.

Love,

Betty

Shelagh wrote:

Yes, Alice, the police in the UK put out that very same reminder to householders. If you install a house alarm, burglars will look elsewhere for easy access.

That's just not true. If they think you have interesting stuff inside, they'll cut the wires. There was a lot of that going on here just recently. The cops just caught an organized ring of thieves who kicked in doors (ones with locks) after dismantling security cameras and alarms.

Keep your interesting stuff out of view.

Doesn't matter if it's in view or not or if you even own it or not. If they just THINK you have interesting stuff, they'll kick your door in.