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 Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty

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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:22 am

Today is the 125th birthday of the Statue of Liberty - our gift from France.

This lady has stood for liberty for 125 years. I hope she will have many more.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:39 am

10/28/2011



When I lived in NYC I used to go there often, she's
an awesome sight....Happy Birthday Lady Liberty..


Cheers..Joe.. Very Happy
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:58 am

I was in NYC recently. It's awe inspiring the way boatloads of people unload at the island just to experience Lady Liberty. I didn't get off the boat; but it has always been an inspiration - based on the movies of immigrants coming here to escape whatever - seeking new opportunities.

Boy, if I was a politician I'd get a lot of mileage out of this.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:18 pm

Dave and I climbed it years ago and wanted to visit Ellis Island too.
Unfortunately the Island was being refurbished.


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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:03 pm

dkchristi wrote:
I was in NYC recently. It's awe inspiring the way boatloads of people unload at the island just to experience Lady Liberty. I didn't get off the boat; but it has always been an inspiration - based on the movies of immigrants coming here to escape whatever - seeking new opportunities.

Boy, if I was a politician I'd get a lot of mileage out of this.

Would you move it to the borders?

I hear the aliens won't even come to pick our apples now.
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Shelagh
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:00 pm

Aliens in the big apple?

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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:15 pm

Thanks to the U. S. hooked on cocaine and marijuana, Mexico has its own crops to pick and package. Unfortunately, like all crime, the profits go to the cartels not to the foot soldiers. All the border police in the world can do nothing so long as profits are astronomical. Where I live, they used to ditch brand new airplanes in the Gulf or the Everglades once they made the delivery; the plane was a small loss compared to the cocaine gains. The only way to end it is by providing medical care sufficient to stop the dependence on drugs and to make the drugs a non-profit item. If I were Mexican I would hate the United States for its cocaine habit that has led to the death of so many people in Mexico and made life anywhere near the border a life of fear. Even worse, it's our guns doing the killing. And we are prejudiced against Mexicans? It should be the other way around.

As I pointed out a long time ago on another thread, it was the jobs here and the advertising by our unscrupulous employers that brought so many migrant workers to this country. There were so many welcomed, that laws were passed to insure they would stay by providing their children the chance to an education wherever their substandard housing and horrible jobs happened to be. Bless their hearts, for miserable lives (yet better than in Mexico) we had cheap food.

The hate toward the Mexicans started with the Bush Administration's failing economic policies through lack of regulation and tax cuts for the wealthy and illegal wars. When people were starting to blame the administration, the administration pointed them toward the Immigrants as a diversion - as if they were to blame for the economic issues. That stupidity is still passed out by those with bias and bigotry in their hearts. It worked exceptionally well. Blame the victim, not the employers who brought them here, made them think they were welcome, and were allowed to break multiple laws without consequences. The hell that Mexican families have endured is shameful. No, they won't be coming here to add their labor and youth to strengthen the U.S. economy. They understand that there are no jobs. They will go where they can work. That's their nature; honest, hard-working, religious and family value people who find joy in the worst of times. But don't worry, they won't come here any more. Notice, the big talk about immigration reform has lost the stage. You don't need to reform an issue when there are no immigrants. However, there are many jobs begging that the lily whites just won't do. They'll starve first.

I know some people took exception when I said the U.S is a great nation. It is. It is also a nation that violates the ideals for which it stands. The Statue of Liberty has long been a symbol of a country that welcomes the less fortunate and gives them opportunities they would find nowhere else. Now, the citizens of the U.S. have their own desperate lives. Not the citizens whose lives improve every year because they are the top 1%; no, the unemployed and homeless that resulted from bank greed and wars. Those were the causes folks: greed and war. Without the economic collapse, the rest of the issues could have been dealt with over time.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:45 pm

Can't think of a response that would add to your post, DK. You said it all.
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:35 am

Trump wants to eliminate/remove the Statue of Liberty.



The Statute of Liberty and the poem has been a symbol of America - a symbol that expressed open arms to those seeking freedom from oppression and offering opportunities for a better life. Many of our ancestors experienced the sight of the Statue on the ships carrying them to Ellis Island.   They were received into the melting pot of America and blended into American society.  The immigration act of 1882 set restrictions on immigration.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1882. In 1875, restrictions were instituted for the immigration of forced laborers coming from Asia.  None of these restrictions changed the symbol of freedom depicted by the Statue of Liberty - a gift from France erected on Liberty Island and dedicated in October 1886.
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:52 pm

I haven't read that Trump is against the SoL. The poem was added twenty years after the statue, and is therefore not symbollic; more an after thought. If you have to explain art, it loses its artistic impact. Words and art conflict one another: a picture can tell a thousand words.

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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:29 pm

Here is the first mention:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-lamb/presidentelect-trump-call_b_13077746.html
The issue came up again with Trump's advisors in debates about immigration.  Athough the poem was added at a later date did not change the symbol of freedom that the Statue represented.  I recall a trip to New York with my high school and visiting the Statue and climbing the stairs to the top.  We all read the inscription (the poem) and it became associated with the statue itself.  There was no mention that the poem was a later addition.  To us, the statue represented the meaning as expressed in the poem.  If we were duped, we were not alone.  Many tourists to America visited the statue and read the inscription.  The inscription became part of the symbol the Statue represents.  For a politician to attack the recognized symbol of freedom, is unwise.
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:30 am

You probably know more about the history of the statue than I do, Abe. My understanding is that the statue was sent from France to symbollise freedom from the tyranny of the English. At the time, the French had a long lasting dislike of the British, especially the aristocracy. The statue was the symbol of freedom from oppression, not immigration:

Bartholdi considered having Liberty hold a broken chain, but decided this would be too divisive in the days after the Civil War. The erected statue does rise over a broken chain, half-hidden by her robes and difficult to see from the ground. Bartholdi was initially uncertain of what to place in Liberty's left hand; he settled on a tabula ansata, used to evoke the concept of law. Though Bartholdi greatly admired the United States Constitution, he chose to inscribe "JULY IV MDCCLXXVI" on the tablet, thus associating the date of the country's Declaration of Independence with the concept of liberty.

There's irony in these words written shortly after the dedication ceremony. The Cleveland Gazette, an African American newspaper, suggested that the statue's torch not be lit until the United States became a free nation "in reality":

"Liberty enlightening the world," indeed! The expression makes us sick. This government is a howling farce. It cannot or rather does not protect its citizens within its own borders. Shove the Bartholdi statue, torch and all, into the ocean until the "liberty" of this country is such as to make it possible for an inoffensive and industrious colored man to earn a respectable living for himself and family, without being ku-kluxed, perhaps murdered, his daughter and wife outraged, and his property destroyed. The idea of the "liberty" of this country "enlightening the world," or even Patagonia, is ridiculous in the extreme.

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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:21 am

I love the statue.   Trump can leave,  I do not admire him.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:27 am

The information shown in blue is interesting indeed.  It seems that the Liberty part is still subject to debate especially among the blacks. 
As for the Civil War and the problems between England and France, there is a long history of strife including wars and alliances.  I believe most are familiar with the history between England and France and it is not the subject of this thread. 
Although the Statue was intended as freedom from oppression, it became symbolic with freedom in general as expressed in the poem.  Many of the immigrants to America sought freedom in various forms and religion was one of them.  I believe it was the Puritans that led the way.  The factions of Martin Luther’s break with the Catholic Church with his Reformation followed.  I learned much about the subject of immigration when I became involved in my genealogy research.  I learned that Johannes Feuerstein (anglicized Firestone) was the first carrier of the name to America, arriving on the Ship Edingburgh in 1750.  His brother Nicholas Feuerstein was the father of Harvey Firestone, the founder of the Firestone Tire and Rubber Company in Ohio.  It was especially of interest to me since my mother gave me her maiden name as my middle name.  I wanted to know why they came to America and that was the start of my research.  I followed the footsteps of my ancestors working backwards.  It took me to Alsace (Elsass) France.  The Feuersteins came to Alsace from Austria working as journeymen building Cathedrals.  There is little or no work in Austria at that time.  They learned building trades associated with Cathedrals.  The young men signed on with the Barockbaumeisters (builders of Barock-style cathedrals).  Being from Austria, they were all Catholic. They found and married girls at their work location and it was common for people at that time to acquire the religion of the local population, especially the religion of the family they married into.  The head of the Feuerstein Clan sent his son to America to keep him from being drafted into the French Army.  Other members of the family followed.  Many men and women did not have the fee for the passage and became indentured.  Indentured servants were men and women who signed a contract (also known as an indenture or a covenant) by which they agreed to work for a certain number of years in exchange for transportation and, once they arrived, food, clothing, and shelter. 
In the process of tracing the family once they reached America, religion played a role in their daily lives.  The history of Pennsylvania is a fascinating study especially the role it played in the creating the many religious denominations we have today.  That’s another subject.
It is safe to assume that it was not only religious freedom, but freedom from religion and to choose a new and/or better unencumbered way of life.  Work was available and immigrants with trades found employment.  Many of those who were indentured remained with the family after their debt was paid.  Those with ambition found opportunities to make their own way and build a family business.  It was the unencumbered freedom that led many to send letters to relatives in Europe to join them in America.  I have seen such letters.
Shelagh, your opening comment:  “You probably know more about the history of the statue than I do.”  That may or may not be true.  Often Europeans and Asians know more about the history of America than those born in America.  A person applying for citizenship must pass a test that includes history and the working of government.  My wife is a naturalized American citizen and went through the process.  She knows more about American history than I do.
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:53 pm

Your ancestors, along with many others, helped to make America what it is today. The British Isles have been hosts to immigrants for as long as men could build boats. When I say immigrants, in fact most were invaders. We have been ruled by Romans, Saxons, Vikings, Danes, Germans, the French and Dutch. They always leave and although we prospered, especially under Roman rule, we continued to thrive under British sovereign rule. After forty-three years of being subject to EU law we are about to enter another period of self-determination. All the doubters deny what history has taught us: we really don't need any foreign interference.

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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:38 pm

I've forgotten all I learned about the history of the Statue of Liberty - but I think it's title says it all to me and to those the world over who strive for personal freedom of thought and action without threat of death or imprisonment.  While our status as a safe haven for immigrants has varied over the years, people believed that this nation represented hope for anyone willing to work hard enough because upward mobility was available.  Today, upward mobility is limited. That's because wealth has been concentrated in the few and the many work at less than their value to support the lifestyles of the rich and famous whose corporate profits are not returned to the country that made them wealthy. Greed is rampant.  Generosity of spirit is not the trademark of the wealthy though some do follow the giving back as received Biblical calling. However, most of the psuedo wealthy and very wealthy of whom I have knowledge are clinging to what they have and crying out that the poor will take it from them by living off the dole from the taxes the wealthy don't pay.  What an irony!

I heard a sermon the other night at a church I do not attend that had a great impact on me.  Most of the trouble in the world results from a false belief that we own anything.  In reality, everything we have is transient and temporary.  Just ask the person who went bankrupt, the business that failed, the life's savings lost in a fire or natural disaster.  That's when they realize it was never theirs in the first place.  What we cling to hardest brings us the most fear and grief.  The happiest person is the one who realizes that when we share, we are not sharing something we own but something that is for the benefit of all humans on this earth.  Ownership gives a false sense of security.  The only security is in one's inner self.  A great book that has a similar inner life philosophy well expressed is Frankl's "In Search of Meaning" about people who lived during the very real Holocaust of which the author was a survivor.

Those whose lives are devoted to accumulation of things realize as the end of life nears the truth that would have been better to understand at a younger age - at death, we own nothing but our beliefs and what our mind has comprehended.  We come into this life naked and we leave it so. The best we can do in between is discover our meaning in being here at all and fulfill it to the bet of our ability.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Happy Birthday - Statue of Liberty   Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:31 pm

Good post, DK.  Good to see you posting again. 
Those who accumulated money and possessions only to see them disappear understand the false security it represents.  As you mentioned, possessions can be wiped out overnight by some unforseen disaster.  Only then does one realize that true wealth lies within.  I consider myself fortunate to have experienced disaster at an age early enough to make a new start with changed ideals.  Being rich -vs- being wealthy can have different meanings.
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