Marriage IS a love affair

James wrote:

Not only is marriage a love affair - it is a life long commitment to the vows taken!

If a person is not up to being honest - then let them live a life that does not take away from the freedoms of another.

IMO to suggest that marriage is not a love affair is disgusting

james
/

IMVHO, love and commitment are not synonymous. Love is a feeling. Commitment is an agreement. Marrying for love is a relatively new concept. Broad generalizations can be limiting. Different cultures and situations require different responses. Since the WIP section is open only to members, I will quote a bit of Chapter 2 from my current project, Redstone's Valley to show you an example of what prompted my OP. (Bolding added)

Quote :

[Daniel] sensed, more than saw, a horse and rider atop the near ridge just to the
south of his homesite. It did not take him long to see that it was
Maria. She was not moving in his direction, just sitting aside her horse, watching. Focusing on the task before him, he continued to
gently guide the mare around the small corral, until he reached the
gate. The mare became nervous and backed away, but still did not
attempt to dislodge her rider. He leaned forward and stroked her neck,
still talking softly. They returned to the gate, and this time, as he
lifted the latch, she walked him slowly outside. They began a slow
climb toward the ridge where Maria and her horse stayed still, waiting.

"Maria, he smiled, "I was planning to ride to the hacienda later this morning..."

"I know of your arrangement with my father," she snapped as he approached.

"Ride back to the corral with me."

"Why should I?"

"Because this little mare is not used to being ridden..."

"Unlike your horse, Mr Redstone, I am not a piece of property to be bought, sold, and tamed."

"Of course you are not." Daniel replied softly. "Please, come back to the corral with me.."

Maria did not move, either forward or backward.

"We have much to talk about."

Her dark eyes regarded him coldly and did not speak, but she turned her horse and rode down the ridge toward the corral.

Daniel
followed her, and on arriving back where he started, he rode the mare
back through the gate, dismounted, and walked toward Maria, latching the
gate behind him. When he reached her, he lifted his arms, and helped
her to dismount.

"So tell me, Mr. Redstone," she continued once safely on her feet, "What is a brood mare worth?"

"Before I answer your question, there is something I need to be sure you understand."

She tilted her head slightly, looking at him with expectation.

"Nothing
will come of any agreement concerning you that your father and I have
discussed unless you, too, want it to happen. It is true, as I hear you saying, that you are not a commodity. What you are, as I see you, is a beautiful, strong, and spirited young woman, whom I would like to get
to know better, but only if you choose to allow it."

Maria was not to be disconcerted. She bit out her words. "Did you and my father not agree that I should become your wife?"

"We have discussed that possibility, yes."

"You..want..to marry..me."

"Only..if you..want it..as much as I."

"I
understand. Now. If I am to be a part of this bargain, I need to know
the terms. Just what is a wife worth to you? She looked toward the
corral. "A horse or two, perhaps?"

Daniel looked at the young woman with growing admiration. She knew her position, but stood her ground, regardless. Red is most definitely her color, he thought to himself. The red wool of her short riding jacket was of a deeper shade than the silk dress from the evening before, and more
sedate, trimmed with the same black wool as her full riding skirt. He
knew that, for better or worse, he would have to put everything on the
line now, without dragging it out any further, if he was to meet the
challenge, and he knew, with growing intensity, just how much he wanted
it to work. He gave her that little bit of a smile that he knew she had
come to appreciate. "I gave a whole string of them for the last one."

"The last one..."

"My last - and first - wife." He tried very hard to look as innocent as he could manage.

"You already have a wife."

"Had"

"Had?"

"She stayed with Buffalo Hump and his band when I left to come here."

"You have a Comanche wife."

"While
I lived with my father's band, but the Council granted her a divorce so
that she could marry again after I left. She married a fine Paneteka warrior, a good friend of mine."

"There is no way that my father could know this."

"He knows."

"Impossible, for he certainly knows that the Church does not recognize divorce. In their eyes, you are still married."

"In
their eyes, I never was. The Church would not recognize a Comanche ceremony as a Christian marriage. As far as they are concerned, it
never officially happened."

"Then, there were no children?"

Daniel allowed himself a sigh. At least, here was the last of it. "We had two sons."

"Had."

They
have a Penateka father now. That is best, for them, their mother, and
for me. This is my world now. They would never be accepted here."

"Did you love her?"

"I had come to."

"And your sons?"

"Of course. But the Comanche way of life is over, as we discussed last night. I can survive here, but they would not."

"What makes you different?"

Daniel smiled ironically. "I have blue eyes."

"And how do you feel about her now?"

"I
will always remember that I loved her, and the boys, and the life we
had, but this is now." And now, this moment, Daniel knew, was as
important a moment as he had ever faced. He held both of his hands out
to Maria. She waited before she took them. Daniel smiled an open smile
then. He looked deeply into Maria's eyes. "I am strongly attracted to
you." Then his eyes crinkled again. "And I have been ever since you
told me your name. And I sense, even now, that you return the
attraction."

She didn't say no.

"I have learned, that with
commitment, it is possible for such attraction to grow into love. I
look at Don Tomas and Dona Isabela, your parents, and I see two people
who have come to love each other very much."

"Yes," she said in a whisper.

"And their marriage was arranged by their families."

"It was."

Daniel nodded. "May I shift the subject?"

"As you wish."

"This land, this valley, your father's rancho, these hills, is this not a special place?"

"It is home."

"More
than home, Maria." he spoke with an intensity she had not heard from
him before. "It is a sacred place. Do you not feel it?"

"I feel it. That is why the first thing I do when I come back after being away is to mount a horse and ride out into it."

"And into my herd of mustangs," he grinned.

Maria laughed with him, then, if a bit ruefully.

"I
reacted badly," Daniel admitted. "It is one of the many things I hope
you will forgive. But you do see," he insisted, continuing with his
intense plea, "the importance of holding this sacred place, of not
allowing the greed of some other owner to desecrate it.

"Yo lo creo."

"Your
father and I are partners, Maria, because we love this place, and want
to protect it. It is his hope, and mine, that you will join us, not as a
thing to be bartered, but as an equal individual who shares our vision.
Cree lo que estoy diciendo, Maria?"

Maria looked around
her at the green hills and found her eyes focusing on the gigantic
outcropping of red rock, the placed the Comanche called Medicine Man
Hill, the Enchanted Rock, and felt, more than she actually saw, a
shimmer of light seeming to emanate from it, sending a feeling of peace
all through the valley and beyond, into the surrounding countryside. "Asi lo creo,"
she said in a bare whisper. She looked at Daniel, and said in a stronger voice, in English, "I will consider all that you have said.

Quote :

to suggest that marriage is not a love affair is disgusting

The commitment is what allows a marriage to become a love affair -

But it is the decision, more than the feeling, that keeps a marriage together. When the love affair ends, the business of keeping the commitment begins, and that is what allows true love to develop.

Sometimes is is a good idea to define the terms we use, as different readers have different perspectives.I've been learning this the hard way lately, I'm afraid.

Ann

Ann

Quote :

The commitment is what allows a marriage to become a love affair

James :: Pure contrived nonsense! Commitment and love are not related!


And I'll repeat :: to suggest that marriage is not a love affair is disgusting - it is worse than disgusting it is loathsome

j

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/love+affair

Perhaps it is more clearly stated that marriage is an affair of love. That is vastly different than a love affair.

Love,
Betty

Betty Fasig wrote:

Perhaps it is more clearly stated that marriage is an affair of love. That is vastly different than a love affair.

Love,
Betty

She does it again, folks.

Ann

James,


You are fortunate . Your marriage was undertaken by your choice. You and your wife are both obviously committed to each other and your love has flourished.

Have mercy on those not so fortunate.

My roommate from college married what she thought was a wonderful man. He had numerous affairs, molested and abused their children.

She divorced him. More power to her.

I will add, James, that had your wife been abusive to your children, had numerous affairs,etc., you wuld have been wise to dissolve the committment.

I have to agree with James, at least in my case.

I have been happily married for nearly 30 years and it has been like a love affair. Marriage has not been a job of commitment for me, it has been as natural as breathing. I love the man I married. He is both my husband and lover.

However marriage is not the same for everyone.

There are many people in long term marriages and they stay in them out of commitment and because it is the thing to do. Culture, tradition, economy, status, etc may be reasons for them to marry and stay married. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. In fact, it may even been the way it is for many (even the majority) of marriages.

Still, I tend to cringe when I read/hear people talk about how marriage is work, commitment, and requires compromise, and such. Because that was never my experience. Maybe I was lucky, but I found a man who loves me just as I am, he's my best friend and I wouldn't dream of changing him one bit. We are simply right for each other.

Semantics. I would think it would be important to read the original post that started this discourse and try to see what Joseph Campbell was saying, and what he meant by the term, "love affair," as it relates to that post and his statement.

Ann

Ann,
I agree with you. And yes, Betty can see through the fog.

As Ann suggested, some cultures view marriage as a commitment - a contract, not a bond of love. Love often grows in marriage. Sometimes it doesn't, and that's when a way to break the bond (contract) becomes important, especially when there is abuse.

Love and being "In" love are not the same. I love many people and many things, but I am not neceassarily In-love with them. Vows are seen as verbal contracts. How many have never broken a contract?

Quote :

Still, I tend to cringe when I read/hear people talk about how marriage is work, commitment, and requires compromise, and such

I wonder if the people who say marriage is work do so because they have trouble compromising or holding their end up of a contract. If that's the case, they'd find any situation work, such as holding a job or living with roommates. Some people just moan and groan about life's daily requirements and compromises. Others take it in stride. "Work" is a matter of perception.

Quote :

Some people just moan and groan about life's
daily requirements and compromises. Others take it in stride. "Work" is a
matter of perception.

And some people jist like to argue and debate? "Work" is not the only "matter of perception" at play here.

Ann

LC wrote:

Quote :

Still, I tend to cringe when I read/hear people talk about how marriage is work, commitment, and requires compromise, and such

I wonder if the people who say marriage is work do so because they have trouble compromising or holding their end up of a contract. If that's the case, they'd find any situation work, such as holding a job or living with roommates. Some people just moan and groan about life's daily requirements and compromises. Others take it in stride. "Work" is a matter of perception.

alj wrote:

Quote :

Some people just moan and groan about life's
daily requirements and compromises. Others take it in stride. "Work" is a
matter of perception.

And some people jist like to argue and debate? "Work" is not the only "matter of perception" at play here.

Ann

Indeed.

alj wrote:

Semantics.

I don't think it is semantics.
Marriage is marriage. Love affair is love affair.
For some people their marriage is a love affair.
For some people it isn't.
It isn't defining the words, it is defining their personal experience.

Really, whether or not a marriage is a love affair, is more a matter of personal experience, cultural background, societal expectations, among other things.

It is expected that not everyone would see marriage and love affairs in the same way.

Pre-marital affair. Can that affect an existing relationship?

My cousin, was a First Lieutenant in the US Army, and was stationed in Germany. He had a relationship with a German girl whose mother was not too keen on him. When he returned to the States, he entered the Seminary to become a Minister. While there, he met a girl who became his wife. They both are pastors at different churches in neighboring towns.
Two years ago, my cousin received a phone call from a 17 year old who claimed to be his son. The son wanted to meet his father. They met, and it was confirmed that he in fact was his son. My cousin was not aware that his girlfriend was pregnant when he left Germany. My cousin and his wife have no children, and although this happened before he met his wife, he was still apprehensive about breaking the news to her. He told me that she was understanding and that there was no problem. There was some apprehension on his wife’s part when he made a trip to Germany to visit his son, and ex-girlfriend; however, it turned out okay. The ex-girlfriend was still unmarried, and they treated each other with respect.
His son still lives with his mother. His son comes to visit and he goes to see his son at least once a year. His wife has yet to accompany him on these visits.

How would you handle a situation like this?

It sounds ilke they have done very well.

Wow! A few elements similar to Ghost Orchid. Real life is stranger than fiction. Not an uncommon plot. They did resolve it well.