Marriage is not a love affair.

Quote :

Marriage
is not a love affair. A love affair is a totally different thing. A marriage is
a commitment to that which you are. That person is literally your other half.
And you and the other are one. A love affair isn’t that. That is a relationship
of pleasure, and when it gets to be unpleasurable, it’s off. But a marriage is
a life commitment, and a life commitment means the prime concern of your life.
If marriage is not the prime concern, you are not married.


Joseph
Campbell and the Power of Myth with Bill Moyers

Discussion? Comments? What do you think?

Ann

Ann,
I agree entirely. It's great when there's much love in a marriage, but that is not always the case. My thought about marriage is based on raising a family and making a home/life together. Having an affair should not mean a failed marriage, but in our society, it does, based on the vows one makes.

Respect, tolerance, consideration play a big role in a successful marriage.
I consider mine successful. In May of this year it will be 50 years. That doesn't mean it was all roses. We had our fights. The children were the glue that held us together and helped us resolve our differences.

That is not always possible with some, and divorce is a good solution. Why live a life of misery because of a mistake?

Of course it's all roses, Abe. You just have to remember that roses have a few thorns. Congratulations.

Ann

In my book, To Beirut and Back, I wrote about taking Greek students to Beirut for a training class. It was my first trip to Beirut.

The men and women students were kept separate in training and they were not permitted to
mingle. It had to do with the material being taught.

My wife was designated as monitor to make sure the women had no contact with the men. When we had lunch in the Phoenicia Hotel restaurant, the women were at tables across the room from the men. In one corner of the restaurant sat three Arabs in their white flowing gowns. My wife intercepted one of the women who was on her way to talk to her husband at the Men’s table. Afterward, one of the Arab men approached my wife and offered her a job to control the women in his Harem. She declined, of course. I didn’t know about that incident until yesterday. When I do a revision of my book,I will include that incident. Now I’m wondering what else I don’t know about.

Love affairs typically run a predictable course. Couples fall in love and stay that way for a couple of years . Then reality sets in and they fall out of love. This can happen over and over agan. If they stay together the love can return much stronger and deeper than in the beginning.

Marriage is definitely a commtment. Both need to be committed or it will not work.

People who stay married for do not ask themselves if they are happy or in love. They remain faithful because they said they would.

Marriage not a love affair?

Pure unadulterated nonsense - that some marry wrong and then whine is their problem

I love my wife more than words can tell!

james

James,
Why don't you tell us what you really thiink?

I think it's presumptuous for anyone to discuss what marriage is or isn't. All anyone can do is discuss what marriage is to them.

I personally never understood the "marriage is work" lecture. What does that even mean? If you have to "work" at it, you probably married the wrong person. I don't consider being considerate and doing the tasks assigned to you (implicitly or explicitly) as marital "work" anymore than I'd consider them "work" if I lived with a roommate.

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LC I think it's presumptuous for anyone to discuss what marriage is or isn't. All anyone can do is discuss what marriage is to them.

James) When a couple marry each has altered the life of the other - and they take vows - for better or for worse! They are sacred!

If an individual has trouble with keeping their word - if they think so little of their partner - than they have no business walking down that aisle in the first place!

They are untruthful from the get go, and do not deserve sympathy or respect!

James
/

Some are faithful. The problem is their partner is not. What are they supposed to do then?

I was lucky in love and marriage.

Marriage is sacred. When a couple marry - each has altered the life of the other - for better or for worse! If one or the other can't handle it - than let them stay home in the first place.

We don’t need to be making excuses for those that cannot keep their marriage vows

j

People, just like the rest of the universe, are always growing and evolving, or at least, that is their natural state. Some people have too much fear to evolve and grow. Others grow at a different rate, or in different directions. Sometimes couples come to the conclusion that the commitment is too limiting, or was made based on old data, and is no longer viable. I think it is important that the option to dissolve the relationship remains available, even if it is overused.

There were massive changes, during the 1970's, in the roles of men and women, and in the ways they relate to each other. It was a difficult time, and many couples did not make it. But the statistics are improving again, as more and more men and women enter the state with a better understanding of their own and each other's roles.

It is not for any of us to condemn what we might see as failure. That was not the reason for starting this thread. The reason had to do with the differences between the words "love" and "commitment."

Ann

Ann

Quote :

It is not for any of us to condemn what we might see as failure. That was not the reason for starting this thread. The reason had to do with the differences between the words "love" and "commitment."

It sounds like whining and excuse making to me! Particularly since "love" and "commitment" aren’t related!

James
/

Quote :

"love" and "commitment" aren’t related!

Ann

I think I'm in over my head on this thread.

I still have much to learn about marriage and love. Fifty years of marriage, along with the thorns that Ann mentioned, still prick. Do the thorns cause me to give attention to the rose?

I don't think there is a need to define "commitment" since everyone seems to be in agreement about its meaning. However, "love affair" needs to be defined. This is the American Heritage dictionary definition:

Idioms & Phrases

love affair

1. 
   An intimate sexual relationship, as in They had a torrid love affair many years ago . This expression dates from about 1600, when it referred merely to the experiences connected with being in love. The current sense dates from the second half of the 1800s.
   
2. 
   A strong enthusiasm, as in We can't ignore America's love affair with the automobile . [Mid-1900s]
   

Thank you, Shelagh. I believe that first definition fits the term as Campbell intended it.

While the current statistics indicate the direction is turning, at the time Joe wrote those words, the divorce rate was climbing rapidly. Many people were getting married, saying from the outset that divorce was a viable option if things didn't work out, and fewer were going into it with the willingness to do the hard work of keeping it together.

That was the point of his comment. Don't get married if you are not willing to do the work it takes to stay married.

Ann

The discussion between Bill Moyers and Joseph Campbell in The Power of Myth goes on for five pages. It begins with statements by Campbell that a major shift took place in the 12th century with the concept of romantic love. At that time, a "romance" was an epic tale written in the style of the Romans, and had nothing to do with couples falling in love. The troubadours changed all that . Campbell says it was a balancing action - a compensation for the practice of arranged marriages, although the practice of arranged marriage actually held sway until the early 20th century:

Quote :

MOYERS: "{Romantic love] was in opposition to the ecclesiastical despotism over the heart that required people, particularly young girls, to marry whomever the Church or their parents wanted them to marry.

CAMPBELL: Well, to say a word for the other first--one has to recognize that in domestic life there grows up a love relationship between the husband and wife even when they are put together in an arranged marriage...there is a lot of love...but this other thing...that comes when you recognize your soul's ciounterpartin the other person [is] what the troubadours stood for...but...marriage is not a love affair...

MOYERS: Does romance in marriage last?

CAMPBELL: In some marriages it does. In others, it doesn't. But the problem, you see, the big word in this troubadour tradition, is "loyalty."

MOYERS: What do you mean by loyalty?

CAMPBELL: Not cheating, not defecting--though whatever trials or suffering, you remain true....

Like the yin/yang symbol, you see. Here I am, and here she is, and here we are. Now when I have to make a sacrifice, I'm not sacrificing to her, I'm sacrificing to the relationship...that's what a marriage is--whereas in a love affair[the involvement lasts] for a certain length of time, as long as it seems agreeable.

It isn't an either/or thing, once again, but both love and loyalty (commitment?) that makes a modern marriage last.

By definition, an affair is a short term thing.

Perhaps some of you are referring to the work of staying in love, rather than an affair?

Ann

Why do we cry at weddings - (and at the same time) take divorce so lightly?

Marriage is not just the union of two people who vow commitment - it is the lifelong altering of one another’s lives from what it might otherwise have been!

Each divorce, each argument given credence (Marriage is not a love affair) chips away at the sanctity of marriage! And in ways that cannot be turned around - it lessens the meaning we give that gold band worn on the third finger left hand.

Do I love my wife? Yes! It’s not always been easy - and there were tears along with the smiles - but we kept the ring (third finger, left hand) in place!

James

Quote :

Marriage is not just the union of two people who vow commitment - it is the lifelong altering of one another’s lives from what it might otherwise have been!

That is exactly what Joe is saying.

Quote :

Each divorce, each argument given credence (Marriage is not a love affair) chips away at the sanctity of marriage!

That is not what Joe is saying. When Joe says, "Marriage is not a love affair," he is saying that marriage is not a temporary arrangement that can be put aside when it is no longer pleasurable.

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Do I love my wife?
Yes! It’s not always been easy - and there were tears along with the smiles - but we kept the ring (third finger, left hand) in place!

That is a perfect description of the loyalty and commitment that makes the difference between a committed marriage and a love affair.

To paraphrase an old saying, sometimes individuals are divided by a common language.

Ann

No one said marriage is not sacred. I have had a wonderful marriage. I can well see why people divorce--it beats murder.

Love, vows, commitment and family! They are sacred! Don’t let anyone negate or steal these from us!
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James

Of course they are sacred. What do you do if they are not equally honored by both parties in the marriage?

What if one partner is a danger to the otherr?

alj wrote:

James wrote:

Each divorce, each argument given credence (Marriage is not a love affair) chips away at the sanctity of marriage!

That is not what Joe is saying. When Joe says, "Marriage is not a love affair," he is saying that marriage is not a temporary arrangement that can be put aside when it is no longer pleasurable.

I don't think the quote in your first post was read, Ann. In which case, is it worth arguing about?

Shelagh wrote:

alj wrote:

James wrote:

Each divorce, each argument given credence (Marriage is not a love affair) chips away at the sanctity of marriage!

That is not what Joe is saying. When Joe says, "Marriage is not a love affair," he is saying that marriage is not a temporary arrangement that can be put aside when it is no longer pleasurable.

I don't think the quote in your first post was read, Ann. In which case, is it worth arguing about?

Is it ever?

Ann