Is it wrong?

Are we talking breaking laws here, or what is just and right. I don't always agree with laws, but obey them. But above and beyond I see laws of mankind, like you can disobey a manmade law to save a child.

To me it is humanitarian law, that we love children, help those in need, etc.

Carol

Shelagh wrote:

You are incorrigible.

Why? I am trying to be magnanimus!

Walking in someone else's shoes, or at least doing so mentally, can be helpful in understanding our fellow man.
How can we know what it is like to live in a war zone unless we were in one? How do we know what it is like to totally be without, unless we have experienced that?
Dick experienced war - hands on, and was fortunate to survive. No one can truly understand what it was like unless he/she was there. Books can help to paint a picture and give a sense of how bad it was, but it will still be lacking.
I was fortunate. I saw war without carrying a gun. I saw dead bodies and smelled the stench. I lost everything. And I knew hunger if only for a short time. Today, I see that as a benefit. There is no way I can fully express what I felt. It is often too easy for people to say, "I know how you feel." Really? Do you know what it's like to have Parkinson's disease? Do you know what it's like to have Cancer?
Trying to understand, having empathy for the plight of others is a step in the right direction.
Is it wrong to steal or to retaliate? That question can only be answered when faced with a desperate situation.

Abe,
I second that with Hairy Mob

I WILL THIRD IT!

The novel that E.Don and I are working on (Sundown Two) will
show just how really bad people can be when they are in full survival
mode and have seen way too much death and destruction. It will also
show the best in people who refuse to allow themselves to become
animals and work together to stay alive.

I have presented this type of scenario before in Keechie, but
without the vivid descriptions that we are incorporating in Sundown.
When writing about the bad guys, It sometimes gets so depressing that I
have had to work in short spurts and alternate with a scene from the
good guys!

I would buy that book. I like a tale that tells both sides.

Thanks, Domenic. The defining lines between the good guys and the bad
guys becomes a matter of perspective when faced with starvation. The
old adage of "honor among thieves" seems to be true, as well as the
opposite within the ranks of the good guys.

I have learned the inclination is to do bad. People as they are growing up, either learn to do good, or their hearts are bad. That is not to say a person can not change from one to the other...most seem to follow the crowd.
The old saying: "The good guy comes in last," is due to the resentment of the bad. One good person by being good, makes the bad stand out.
Case in point...before the flood Noah was the only good person left. That was the apex that condemned the badness. If one could be good, all could be good.

Quote :

I have learned the inclination is to do bad.

I disagree. I believe it is human nature to love. I don't believe anyone either "learns to do good, or their hearts are bad." We all make choices. Some may be better than others, but in general most people do the best they can with what they have where they are.

What Merri said.

Ann

Alright I know I am getting here 6 pages late, but it gives me the opportunity to go back to Abe's original questions...I beleive that it is wrong to steal, but as we have discussed, I am going to do so if it will enable me to save my children from starving to death. I was never so desperate that I needed to steal, but I have been at rock bottom and absolutely terrified as to where the next meal was coming from. Fortunately, my family have been like Carol...either with a pie in hand, or in teaching me to cook healthy food on a budget. God bless them.

To your follow up question Abe, if the govt came along and told me to move out of my house, I would leave. No questions, just let me take my kid, the cat, and pictures please.

Since we're sharing...I want to tell you how much I admire the people who live in this region (Nova Scotia, Canada). They have managed through rife unemployment (primary industries being mining and fishing), weather disasters (Halifax Explosion, Hurricane Juan, and my first one here, Tropical Storm Noel), and so much more. We live, as does most of Canada and the US, with access to just 3 days food supply available on hand at any given time. Nova Scotia is linked to the rest of the continent by one highway that has to close down in bad weather (the Cobequid Pass). People who live here form co-ops, grow ops, work extra jobs including one that is "home based and under the table" to put food on the table. They have made a sub-culture of the used clothing industry. There are down sides to this of course, but it's an interesting study in resilience.

It's about time you stepped in, Pam. Nice to see you back even if it must be brief! I know your time is short and your plate is overflowing.

merrihiatt wrote:

Quote :

I have learned the inclination is to do bad.

I disagree. I believe it is human nature to love. I don't believe anyone either "learns to do good, or their hearts are bad." We all make choices. Some may be better than others, but in general most people do the best they can with what they have where they are.

You Marri, have shown in your past post that you believe in God.
Read what he says...Genesis 6:5

I read the scripture you suggested. I'm not debating scripture. Through Jesus' death on the cross we have become gifts to God that he delights in (Ephesians, can't remember the verse at the moment).

Quoting scripture doesn't replace personal experience. I have found people to be very generous and kind-hearted. Yes, I've seen them be the opposite. Who hasn't? Generally, the reason they have changed is because of life circumstances, not because they have a wicked heart.

Oh, and Domenic, this is a personal preference, would you please spell my name correctly. It's Merri, not Marri. Thanks!

merrihiatt wrote:

I read the scripture you suggested. I'm not debating scripture. Through Jesus' death on the cross we have become gifts to God that he delights in (Ephesians, can't remember the verse at the moment).

Quoting scripture doesn't replace personal experience. I have found people to be very generous and kind-hearted. Yes, I've seen them be the opposite. Who hasn't? Generally, the reason they have changed is because of life circumstances, not because they have a wicked heart.

People in a bad situation, are who they really are...anyone can be good when things a good.

Domenic,

We are what we are! You have yet to convince me that your folks did not knick bread to keep you alive.

I happen to bake bread. It is very complicated and would be very difficult to do in a tent.

You have evaded my questions about the bread!

Naturally your parents would not say, "Look, here is the bread we stole for your breakfast."

Ponder that awhile.

My mom did side jobs, My dad worked in a fish market. We had money...just not much money. If they did steal it, I did not know it. Convince me your parents did not rob banks?

Good point!

From my book, Iowa Born and Bred. These are not my words but those of a cousin who was captured during the Civil War and escaped prison, heading towards the Gulf of Mexico hoping to be able to connect with the Union fleet, which he did. I thought they applied here, although they were trying to get food for themselves.

"Four nights and days had passed without eating food except for the hard corn. We lay down to sleep the day away, but between our hunger and the swarms of mosquitoes, we could get little rest. I could see in my dreams tables spread and groaning with loads of good things to eat. Bread, meat, cheese, coffee, biscuit and butter were all within my reach, and would vanish when in the midst of this feast I would wake to a sense of reality.
At last we grew desperate and at twilight pulled out of the little bayou determined to make a raid of some sort on a house for food, peaceable if possible, forcible, if necessary.
While it was still somewhat light, we spied a house some distance from the river bank, and delayed our visit until it was dark. The only occupants of the house were an old man and old woman. We told them we were Confederate soldiers who had been on furloughs returning to our regiments in Atlanta and wished directions to the ferry. We actually had discovered the ferry on the way down the river, and really had no intention of returning to it. Also, we told them we were hungry and would like something to eat, provided they felt like feeding hungry soldiers without money. It was quite dark and they could not see us very distinctly, which was good in our dilapidated state, but they believed our story and told us we were welcome to such food as they had."

Hi Carol.

Your story reminded me of Great Expectations. Pip stole food to save a convict on the run from starvation. What was Charles Dickens thinking about? Did he not realise that his story was setting a bad example to young, impressionable readers? Blimey, I bet that book didn't survive and become a classic.