Comments that are intended to be constructive

I know that each of us responds to comments about our work differently and I was wondering what works best for each of us so that we can not only hear what someone's constructive comments are, but really listen and take them in. Whether we agree with what the person has said or not.

For myself, I like to hear something positive first. What did the person like about what I wrote. Even if the only positive thing the person can say is that it was a good length or they liked the font!

Then, I'm much more open to hearing the things that the person thinks I might want to consider changing, along with their reason for the changes.

Other people may prefer a more straight-ahead approach. Here's what I didn't like about it... I find that approach too harsh. You've heard of tough skinned people and I often think I am a person walking around with no skin!

How do you prefer to have comments about your work expressed?

It all depends, Merri. When I spent ten years writing a daily newspaper column it had to be entertaining and one way I managed it was to annoy people. I loved the "drop dead" comments and those that were less kind than that.

For short mysteries, I appreciate it when other mystery writers say something is OK.

I see blogs as being similar to writing a newspaper column. I enjoy being hit with a brick, but they are not too frequent as the blogs are toned down from my column-writing days.

As a reporter I enjoyed it when someone said, "I wish you hadn't written that but at least you got it right."

On messageboard posts . . . well, various boards are used by different types of people. I enjoy this board, of course, because the people are good-natured. I like to read and post on boards conducted by professional mystery writers because they are friendly and, duh, professional. Even on vindictive boards you find some nice people as well as others who are not so nice. On any of them, I don't care whether people agree with what I write or not.

I've never cared for gushy praise. The best comments of all usually were unspoken and came during my newspaper days when I'd show up to cover an athletic event between a couple of small high schools that usually were ignored. The appreciation was evident because they knew I didn't have to do it but was there because I wanted to be.

I want to know how what I write is viewed by others. Sometimes people see things my writing never intended and my intended message never gets across. Messageboards are great places to get feedback on writing, because it is all writing with a few pictures.

For years I wrote for myself, to vent when there was no one else to vent to, to deal with trials and tribulations, frustrations, doubts, and on and on. What was seen by others were policy books, training manuals, nonfiction for schools, some writing for hire and content editing for the state. That writing was perceived positively but it wasn't from my heart and soul.

Now I write from my heart and it doesn't always get across the way I wish or is even authentic. To me, just hearing how something I've written is perceived by others is the most valuable, good or bad.

Carol

merrihiatt wrote:

How do you prefer to have comments about your work expressed?

Any way I can get them. Your question implies that I won't listen if comments are given to me in a manner I don't like. As someone who wants my books to be successful, I can't afford such a luxury.

Comments tell me what my book needs to look like for that person to buy it. Whether delivered brusquely or kindly, they are golden. I listen to all, and my books are better for it. Comments are also not so freely given that I can filter based on delivery. As I said in another thread, they typically have to be paid for.

I like to hear the truth, even if it is hard and bad, that way I can learn to improve. What I don't like is when someone just sets out to criticize without showing any good points. Maybe the work is that bad, yet to offer no encouragement will not make the creator wnt to regard your words with merrit. If anything it may convince them that the critic is just plane jealous. I speak from my own experience here for that is what happened to my first book, Teddy the Bear. Now looking at the story I can see that it could be improved and yes the art work is poor, though this was the best my talents could muster at the time.

Is it possible to bring out a second, improved edition, Hairymob?

Yes but it will be a project for the future I think. I originally made the story up for my son when he was three. He was afraid af the monster in the closset so I had a moments inspiration and that is how it came about. The art work does need someone a lot better than myself though to bring the magic of the tale alive, at least thats what I think.

To critique someone's work without being honest, is dishonest.
Telling someone what they want to hear doesn't help the person nor does it do much for one's self esteem. It is difficult when a friend asks for an honest critique. For many, they really don't want to hear anything negative but want confirmation that what they wrote is good. Knowing that, if I can't give a positive review with some suggestions for improvement, I won't give a review at all. Why create an enemy?
I value someone who gives me an "honest" review. I may not like what I hear, but I respect the person for the courage to tell me the truth.

As a writer I have set myself up for the opinion of others good and bad. I have to have a thick skin and accept not everyone will like what I write. I would rather write than do anything else, unfortunately it doesn't pay very well so I must work as well. That is one good reason for developing the rhino skin, it gets you through the day , as well as stops the criticism of others from getting through so easily.

I'd take Abe's thoughts a step further. To me the only reviews that mean anything are those of the agent, publisher, and editor when I am pitching a book for possible publication. The thoughts of my peers are valued, but don't really mean anything in the overall scheme of getting my book published. I know many people who don't have the same reading habits as I have, and therefore will not like the same things. As I tend to write what I like to read, I don't see how someone who doesn't like that genre can give an honest opinion. They will never like it as much as they do the genre that they read, and probably write in.

With that said, I will give someone an honest opinion if they really want it, but I refuse to say anything that may dash their hopes or give them second thoughts about writing. Who am I to tell anyone here that their books are no good? To me, if I say that then it is only my opinion, and I see no reason for saying anything that is bad. I'll be more than happy to privately tell you what I think is wrong, and even offer my opinion on how it might be made better, but even then, I'll tell you that my opinion is no better than anyone elses.

I occasionally review a book for someone who asks me to, but I will not give less than 5 stars. If I don't like it, I'll let them know it and not post a public review. I see no reason to post anything other than a 5 star review, because each of you are doing exactly the same thing that I'm doing, and that's trying to attract readers and hopefully buyers. If I give a bad review that turns readers and buyers away, I haven't done you a favor. BTW, books that are on the best seller lists are not, for the most part, written by my peers, so they are fair game. For most of us, one more sale is something we need, and don't get enough of. It's not my business to post something about your book that might deny you that sale.

I don't see this as being dishonest or lying, I see it as lending a hand to my friends. If you want me to give advice that might make your book better, then send it to me while you are working on it, and not after it's published.

I have just finished reading Alice Crooker's wonderful book, "Peas, Pills, and Parkinson's" and I'd like to share my thoughts on it. I found it absolutely delightful, and once I started reading it, I didn't stop until I was finished. She has created something of value with this book, and offers us some life lessons that we would be well advised to listen to. She wrote with a wonderful sense of humor, and took an approach to an awful disease with an attitude that I doubt many of us could muster. "Peas, Pills, and Parkinson's" is one of the best books I've read in a long time, and I would recommend it to anyone.

In the past few years I've been privileged to read some of the books by some of the people I've come to know on a message board or two, and there are three of them that I would not hesitate on advising anyone to read. Allice, of course is one, Phil Whitley is another. I read his WIP Granny Boo and was so impressed that I suggested that he and I cowrite a book, which has turned into the project we are currently working on. Another friend, John Cassell, is a very talented writer, and his books are as good as anything on the market. There isn't a better author on the best selling lists than Alice, Phil, and John, and I don't care who they are published by, they are still very good, and under the right circumstances each of them could very well be on that best seller list.

An author friend and I sent chapters back and forth for individual books we were writing.

We gave each other constructive criticism for each chapter. In some ways he was responsible for my battle scene in Flow On Sweet Missouri and a love scene in another book. (I have not seen him in years, so don't get any ideas.)

One chapter he wrote completely incensed me. I was livid that he wrote what he did and told him in no uncertain words. He said his computer was "smokin'" for a couple of days. The problem was we were sending chapters one at a time, and I did not have the next chapter, which followed the one I was incensed by and resolved the whole issue with which I had a problem.

It was a good experience and we were very honest with each other. He was the one who told me about PA and is a PA author, but has never been on any of the messageboards. I was originally writing just for family. I wouldn't even be on this messageboard if it weren't for this friend.

Regarding Iowa Born and Bred, the comments from several reviews were that the first chapters were weak. This helped me realize I needed to improve my first chapters.

Carol

I, like Don, will only post an honest 5 star review. Anything less than
that I email the author and tell them why I felt like it was less than
a five, with the disclaimer that I am certainly no expert!

Thanks for the kind comment, Don. I feel the same way about your
writing. Your style is much smoother than mine, and the experience
shows.

I think it's showing from both of us in the new book. Liking it a lot.

I think having your book stolen from the library is a 5 star review!

I agree with Don about the critiques that matter. I hate it when someone asks me to look over a manuscript so I nearly always refuse. I can be the meanest guy around except when reviewing another person's writing. I know whatever comments I might make would be only one person's opinion. Abe is right in saying many people are looking for praise, not an honest opinion. Don is right in saying that unless a person reads and writes in your own field their opinion isn't worth much. If I reviewed or critiqued a science fiction story my opinion would be meaningless. For the same reason, the first person to read something I have written, aside from my wife who proofreads for errors, is the editor I have submitted it to.

Dick, that makes sense to me.

Eh ...I think a reader can provide useful suggestions even if the manuscript is out of his/her preferred genre. I don't have to like romance or sci-fi to recognize awkward word use, clumsy narrative, lack of research. In fact, critiques from people who ordinarily don't read that genre might provide insights that people who do read it miss, since the latter subconsciously fill in holes.

This started with someone giving his overall impressions about book trailers. Trailers are supposed to make the viewer want to buy the book. His comment was that some were so slow and wordy he lost interest. I've viewed a few book trailers from following links, and frankly, I agree. Most home productions are, well, just that, IMO.

LC, I think you're missing at least part of what I said, and probably what Dick said as well. Not all, but part. What I inteded to convey was that unless a review by you could do something positive for my book, then I don't need it doing something negative. And the fact is that many non professional reveiwers don't look exclusively for awkward word use, clumsy narrative or lack of research. They look for a story that they enjoy, and their rating is subject to that enjoyment. If the story is completely outside their favorite genre, then I believe it influences what rating they give it, and does a book no good at all.

While I might like the ego stroke that a great review by you might give me, unless you are going to be publishing that work your review is not all that important. I feel that if you want to offer a bad review, then you should do it privately, as a bad public review could have a huge negative effect, both on the author and on any potential buyers. I still maintain that most of the folks here do not benefit from a bad review by one of their peers.

I spent a lot of time writing songs in Nashville, with some success. I've had a lot of my songs recorded, mostly by independent artists, and I've developed a very thick skin. You can say what you want to about something I've written and it will roll off me like water off a duck's back. I have understood for years that it is mostly a matter of opinion, and as such it doesn't bother me. If I was pitching a song to a producer then all I needed to know was whether or not he had an artist that the song might be suitable for. I didn't pitch a song until I knew it was good enough for someone to record, and I'd like to think that the lesson has carried over into my books.

I will sometimes, sometimes, give advice to a person who asks for it on a WIP, but I won't critize their work on a public message board. I see no reason for having something I say stop someone else from reading or buying a book. We're not famous authors here, with sales in the millions, and every one we can get is important. Why should I do something that might stop even one sale?

Don, I wasn't clear, I was referring to reviews of WIPs. You are exactly right that a poor review of a finished, published work does the author no good.

However, Dmondeo's review was of book trailers. They can be changed, and if they're detrimental to sales, they should be changed.

Edited to add ...actually, I have benefited from some bad reviews (posted on Amazon and various message boards) on my non-fic book. I addressed the writers' complaints in subsequent editions, which made the book better. I realize that you can't do that with fiction, unless the reviews are something you feel need to be incorporated into your writing.

LC, WIP's are different, and I agree that constructive criticism can be very useful. I think most of us seek that from people whose opinion we value, and actually, I don't think a book can be its best without it.

I know that Dmondeo was reviewing trailers, and if he or anyone else has something constructive to say, then I say go for it.

I think (I may be wrong) what bothered most here was not what he said, but the attitude in which he made the comments. A lot of people don't understand attitude, but having been born and bred in the south and having lived my entire life here, I can tell you that anytime someone comes off as thinking they are better than you are, it is not received well. I doubt that Dmondeo thinks that, but that was the attitude that I got, and I suppose many others got, from his post. It appeared that he was being judgemental, and nobody likes that. There are some here who have said they didn't object to the the post, but I suspect that they are among those people, and there are many of them, who have no idea that the way they say things can be as important as what they say.