A good lession from dkchristi.

I read a comment dkchristi said today, and it made me think about new writers who write sequels.. dkchristi wrote a book with 1,000 pages, and the agent told her to cut it in half. That is one big cut, and a major rewrite.

Please, this is not aimed at any member on, or off this forum. Movie companies do sequels to movies, but each movie is a stand alone story.

I have seen many new writers write sequels in two, three, four books where it is one story. A reader would have to buy all the sequels to read the complete story.

A publisher will not buy a sequel from an unknown writer, nor a sequel from any writer that has a stand alone story in more than one book. If it does not sell, the publisher would be out of pocket for the number of books in the sequel…each separate book has to be printed, times the number of books in the sequel if they make one complete story.

Will a reader buy one of a sequel just to see if they like it? I don’t know? Most people today want something they can read in a short time.

A stand alone story (only one story) spread out over several book would cost a publisher a good deal of money, and that is a big risk. To self publish, again would cost the writer.

Stand alone stories over several book seem like a disaster before they gets off the ground.

I have read were many new writers are working on sequels. A new story in each I don't believe would be a problem. A single story over several books I think would.

What do you think?

10/15/2013

                        Domenic..

                                    I believe in one story, one book, when I write I like to get to
                 as they say the meat and potatoes. I had a good friend years ago who was
                 a film editor, she told me never, ever drag anything out example: They got
                 on the plane, they talked, they ate, they had wild sex in the bathroom ! They
                 got on the plane , you saw a few passengers, then they landed in Rome. I know
                 this is a lousy example but I think you know what I mean...

                                                              Cheers..Joe..

One story-- one book.

If I was dkchristi, I don't know what I would have done?

I am writing a sequel, and dom has made several comments about it on the WIP thread.  So has DK. we also all discussed her 1000 page book that she had to cut in half.  Since dom was in on that discussion, I am afraid I do not believe him when he says his comments are not directed at anyone on this forum.  I will humor him for now, as long as I am amused.

I am not the only one here who writes sequels.  Shelagh's Mr. Planemaker's Diving Machine is a sequel to Mr. Planemaker's Flying machine.  Joe has written two series, his Dusty books and his Clara Layton books. The second of each of those would technically be sequels.

Sequels are stand-alone stories.  One does not need to read all of them or in any order.  Each is a complete story in itself. It has the same characters, so the writer has to attend to the other stories so that any facts do not contradict each other,  It helps if the author keeps track of those facts, so that it isn't necessary for the reader to read the whole series to get the whole story.  Whether or not to read every book in such a series is optional.

there are quite a few extremely popular series of novels, especially in the historical fiction genres, including westerns, romances, and fantasy.  JK Rowling did quite well with hers, I believe.  During the past 30 days, Amazon has added some 250 novels that are sequels, of books in a series.  That's a long way from being a disaster.

So, the concept of one story, one book is in no way contradictory to the concept of a series of sequels.

I do not know of a series where one has to read both or all of the books to get the whole story.

10/15/2013

                      Ann..

                              Sorry I haven't written any sequels to " Dusty," Clara Layten Yes,
                     " Murder On Society Road,"  Also titled " Fi Fi La Rue."


                                                                   Cheers..Joe..

What is For Love of Dusty, Joe?

10/15/2013

                    Who are you Inspector Cluso ? It's the same dam book !!!!


                                                         Cheers..Joe..

Sorry, it's listed twice at Amazon.  One book with two names?

Alj, I don’t know what your problem is. You always come across like you are under attack. You present yourself as the great know it all teacher, and ever body else has their head up their ass. You were a school teacher…that’s no big horn blowing thing. You look down on people. You know nothing about most of us, what we have done, what we are doing.

This post has nothing to do with you. You are not the apex of my thinking. Matter of fact, I have very little respect for teachers. I am not a teacher, but for the last ten years I have been invited into High Schools to teach Algebra…which I do in one hour…I do it free. Teachers even ask me to teach them my method. Do I think I’m some big math brain…NO. I designed a system that works for kids. I don’t blow a horn about it.

Nor do I feel I’m under attack by the world.

Do I like you? I don’t know, I don’t know you. Do I think you are a great writer? It doesn’t matter what I think. Would I have you for a writing teacher? NO, I don’t like your style.

Do I think I’m a good writer? No…I’m a work in progress. You should learn to chill out…this is a writers forum, not your class room, and no body here can get an F- from you, or sent to the office.

Is this an attack on you…keep it up, and it just might turn in that direction.

Hi Dom,

I wrote Mr. Planemaker's Flying Machine as a stand alone novel, but I left the ending with room to extend into another book if I felt the need to do so. "Mrs. Planemaker's Flying Carpet" was my first attempt at writing a sequel. It wasn't very good. I sent the first four chapters to my cousin for critique. She pointed out a number of things that were incorrect for modern day children. She said they would not celebrate another child's academic success and laud the child in the playground. Instead, they would be envious and upset that they were not the chosen one. This is how things have changed in schools. Every child has to succeed or no child must succeed. She also said that it needed to be punchier: everyone was too nice.

I started several rewrites but abandoned the story because it simply wasn't good enough. I did other things instead. I edited my first novel, The Power of Persuasion, which I self-published in 2008, ten years after I first wrote the novel.  It was another three years, and several publications later, before I sat down and wrote Mr. Planemaker's Diving Machine. I loved writing the book; it was tremendous fun. It is longer than the first book and packed with adventure, information and mystery. The book does not sell in either paperback or ebook format. It has received one five star review:

5.0 out of 5 stars Fantastic! 4 Feb 2013
By Judder
Format:Kindle Edition|Amazon Verified Purchase
Another fantastic story from Shelagh Watkins!

Firstly, I simply adore the way Shelagh creates names for the characters, Mr Wiz Kidd, Mr A. Leon Spaceman, Ann Aquanaut etc...

Any way, characters aside, this story once again involves the Planemaker kids Emmalisa and Dell. A mysterious message appears on the screen of the computer in Emmalisa's room, it threatens them and warns them not to go back to Hardwareland. Of course, they must go to find out what is happening and try to stop the evil plan that is unfurling which may ruin them both and their mother. While staying in the magical world of Hardwareland, where time is only a tiny fraction of time in the real world, the kids go to a virtual crime training course, a scuba diving course and a deep sea diving course.

I can't help but be absorbed into the story and even, secretly, hope that one day I'll get to go on adventures inside my computer. So much goes on in the story that before you know it you have finished and you are hoping that Shelagh will write a 3rd in the series. It's a fantastically written story that both adults and children can enjoy. You might even learn a thing or 2 from it, I know I did.

From the Daniel's Daughter thread wrote:

Quote :

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:
I could give you some suggestions to perk up your writing...but know whatever I, or anybody suggest would be put aside...you seem to think you have mastered the art of story telling. So I'm out.

You have said that before. I hope you mean it this time.

You have mentioned, during past scenarios like this one that you sent me PMs. Yes, you have. I recall them. I still have copies of some of them.

You and I both know that you are not about helping; you are about control. You have even gone so far as to say things that were overtly sexual. We both know that, as do several of the members who have been around for a while. You have since deleted those comments. That's how you work. You say things that are inappropriate, and delete them later. When you crossed that line, I asked you to stop. You did not. This is your game. When I am foolish enough to respond, you get mean.

I have had the audacity to challenge you in the past. You resented it. You still do. You hold a long grudge. Whenever you come back, you get around to these tactics pretty quickly. I am no longer amused. The game is over.

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:

Is this an attack on you…keep it up, and it just might turn in that direction.

Let's just keep this bit for posterity.

CC all you want.

Shelagh wrote:

Hi Dom,

I wrote Mr. Planemaker's Flying Machine as a stand alone novel, but I left the ending with room to extend into another book if I felt the need to do so. "Mrs. Planemaker's Flying Carpet" was my first attempt at writing a sequel. It wasn't very good. I sent the first four chapters to my cousin for critique. She pointed out a number of things that were incorrect for modern day children. She said they would not celebrate another child's academic success and laud the child in the playground. Instead, they would be envious and upset that they were not the chosen one. This is how things have changed in schools. Every child has to succeed or no child must succeed. She also said that it needed to be punchier: everyone was too nice.

I started several rewrites but abandoned the story because it simply wasn't good enough. I did other things instead. I edited my first novel, The Power of Persuasion, which I self-published in 2008, ten years after I first wrote the novel.  It was another three years, and several publications later, before I sat down and wrote Mr. Planemaker's Diving Machine. I loved writing the book; it was tremendous fun. It is longer than the first book and packed with adventure, information and mystery. The book does not sell in either paperback or ebook format. It has received one five star review:

5.0 out of 5 stars Fantastic! 4 Feb 2013
By Judder
Format:Kindle Edition|Amazon Verified Purchase
Another fantastic story from Shelagh Watkins!

Firstly, I simply adore the way Shelagh creates names for the characters, Mr Wiz Kidd, Mr A. Leon Spaceman, Ann Aquanaut etc...

Any way, characters aside, this story once again involves the Planemaker kids Emmalisa and Dell. A mysterious message appears on the screen of the computer in Emmalisa's room, it threatens them and warns them not to go back to Hardwareland. Of course, they must go to find out what is happening and try to stop the evil plan that is unfurling which may ruin them both and their mother. While staying in the magical world of Hardwareland, where time is only a tiny fraction of time in the real world, the kids go to a virtual crime training course, a scuba diving course and a deep sea diving course.

I can't help but be absorbed into the story and even, secretly, hope that one day I'll get to go on adventures inside my computer. So much goes on in the story that before you know it you have finished and you are hoping that Shelagh will write a 3rd in the series. It's a fantastically written story that both adults and children can enjoy. You might even learn a thing or 2 from it, I know I did.

Great review of your work. I'm going to have to read it. There was a thing, I don't remember the year, sometime in the 1980's. This one person was having a hard time selling an item he made at home. He contacted a small back pack company, and they joined the two items as one. Companies here in the USA still do that sort of thing. Do they do that in the UK?

To tell the truth, I thought I was a one book wonder with Arirang: The Bamboo Connection.  I was led down that thorny path through false expectations from a lifetime of people telling me I was such a great writer and the support of raving good reviews by professional reviewers and readers and initial sales.  When PA dropped Amazon.com and Amazon.com dropped Amazon Shorts, I lost a great marketing solution that caused an immediate sales drop.  When I lost faith upon discovering PA was not a true vetting of my novel, my own dropping enthusiasm created self-fulfilling prophesy dropped sales another rung, but I kept up a spirited promotional effort for the fun of it and continued steady but declining sales.  

I was truly inspired by the blooming of the ghost orchid, it took hold of my soul and literally wrote another book that was not intentional.  I had difficulty ending the book, so there is a hint at another generation to follow that might continue.  It was truly a hint. I loved that little book and still do.  I still react as a reader, tears and all, each time I read it.

I have been unable to publish another book because the inspiration all went into Ghost Orchid.  I have had poor luck gaining publication of Arirang rewritten in a manner consistent with publisher comments over the years.  I get it.  There is a certain "capture" that must be accomplished to hold a reader.  It's a sort of magic, almost mystical, that works with some books and not others.

It's that "magic" that separates the multitudes of great stories from the fewer best sellers. I have reviewed many good stories, but I have not yet reviewed one that had that mystical "capture" that held me.

I remember reading while driving my car I was so taken with a book; hiding it in my lap in church.  Once such book was Snow on Cedars.  Both the written and audio versions were mesmerizing. 

Acquisitions editors generally know how to sift through the great stories and find the one with magic.  Otherwise, their publishers get new editors.  They don't always hit the mark.  I have read many good books by known authors that just didn't have the magic of their other publications.

I think a critique group - a group in which you have allies rather than detractors - can help an author move from great story to magical story.  I may yet have the time to join one and figure out how to turn Arirang into the book it was intended - and it will be at least two books, each with their own story but the same characters.

dkchristi,
I have a Writer's  special issue from 1999.  I have saved this book because it has one story I read when my writing is near a cliff. It's the story about Arthur Golden who wrote, Memoirs of a Geisha. The book was a best seller, and became a movie. It was also the book that almost never was.
Over ten years Goldmen submitted the book...reject after reject. Re-write, after re-write. Golden knew he had a story, but also understood it was not ready for a publisher to risk money on. He went over, and over the story for years...ten in all. You and I both know to just read our work over time and again is draining. We both have a book we have been working on for years...I think you feel as I do...we have a good story...but something is not right with it. I think I have discovered what the problem is with mine...it is now under a slow major re-write...I have not changed the story. The plot, and characters are the same. It's the story about a trial. I had put to much on the trial. I am cutting most of the trial talk out, and putting the story back into the characters. I will still have the same outcome of the trial...but what reader wants to sit and listen to all the going on of a court room?

Don't give up your story. Whatever is holding it in the dark will come to you. Stay the course like Golden. Don't start a new story...you have a good one...it just needs to be made ready for a publisher to spend money on. Take out everything that does not help the story. remember the saying, "Keep it tight."

10/16/2013

                         Or as I was told once cut to the chase, never drag it out..

                                                Cheers....Joe..