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 The Peoples Court

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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: The Peoples Court   Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:12 am

In a court of law, people swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth and are punished for lying. In our political campaign and debates, I think the participants should swear an oath to tell the truth. Although it is not a court of law, they are in the “Peoples Court”. Many on the jury of American citizens have been corrupted. Something is very wrong
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:40 am

Abe,

Its the News media--they want a horse race. I am so so sick of it.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:09 am

10/12/2012

You can't trutst any of the news media, they lie,

anything to get ratings.....Boy has it changed in

the last 40-50 years...



Cheers..Joe...Very Happy
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:25 pm

There was a time when a lying reporter was an anathema. Now there are few reporters and many ratings whore commentators that people mistake for reporters. Now the media is owned by two or three individuals - imagine - individuals - who control what is said and who says it. It's starting to sound more and more like science fiction.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:35 pm

10/12/2012



It has become a horror........affraid

Cheers...Joe...Very Happy
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:18 am

In the past days, I have been approached by numerous people asking me who I thought would win the election. They are optimistic that Obama will win, however I didn't agree with that. I told them that it would be a close election.
The Europeans are rooting for Obama. They feel they can trust him. As for Romney, they have real concerns. They associate him with Bush and what a mess he made of things that affected the entire world.

The world is watching. They are watching the debates and are aware of the lies being told. If a man lies to get elected, how can one trust that person once elected to tell the truth? If America wants to lead, they must show that they are worthy of leadership. Voter fraud and lying to the people is something not easily forgotten. They remember Florida and the suspected voter fraud to get Bush elected. There is much anxiety in the world. The financial crisis along with the problems in the Middle East that could erupt into war are a big concern. They hope for a leader who will use restraint and reason rather than rush into war. Europe has experienced war more than once. They know the horrors of war first hand. As Americans, except for the Civil War, our participation has been on someone else's soil and shielded from the human tragedy of civilians struggling to survive.

For a land that proclaims "In God we Trust" and wants to be seen as a Christian nation, their actions don't live up to the teachings of Christ. Just saying....
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:07 am

Abe said:

Quote :
The Europeans are rooting for Obama. They feel they can trust him. As for Romney, they have real concerns. They associate him with Bush and what a mess he made of things that affected the entire world.

I'm afraid that there are a lot of Americans who don't yet realize that they are merely one part of a larger world. It's a little bit like the idea that what one cannot see - or has not seen - doesn't really exist.

Europe has an advantage, in that sense, because it has historically been an area of geographically smaller states which had to interact to survive.



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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:48 am

I remember flying to other countries during the Bush administration and getting an "earful" by my seatmates who spoke English about how he was destroying the world economy through wars and unregulated, global finance. During that administration, I lived in fear of saying anything against the government; there was an atmosphere of big brother watching for those who were "unpatriotic" enough to believe that something was wrong - very wrong. We whispered about how wrong the Iraq war was. I remember my friend whose daughter joined the service because she was too poor to ever get an education otherwise - and ended up with two tours in Iraq. She pitifully wrote, "I am torn between serving my God and my country" she felt so badly about the poor people of Iraq. She came home broken.

Remnants of that fear mongering remain. Because going into two wars was a Republican "thing," any voice against those wars was a voice against patriotism, against our brave service people. Of course, that is not true; however, on Facebook it is still the far right that posts all their comments with flags and pictures of servicemen as if that makes their position more "patriotic." Anyone who disagrees with their love of Romney is called a communist or some other label. Loving Romney is not patriotic; it is just the opposite. He is an empty suit, place holder who memorizes and follows directions. The only time he makes sense is when he says he agrees with Obama Administration policies which is happening more and more as the election gets closer. We already have a competent administration. We don't need a pretty, blong, white, blue-eyed First Lady as the right promotes.

Patriotic is freedom to have discourse without venom; to share ideas; to recognize the error of our ways and correct it. I am no less spiritual and no less patriotic because I am now free to openly express my horror at what the Bush Administration was able to do to this country and the world with unregulated freedom to the industrial/corporate complex and an open purse with no plan to cover costs. No, I will not forget the lies of the Bush administration - the lies that took us into a war in Iraq where we bombed those poor people because the real culprits were from another country we could not destroy. I am ashamed every day of what we did to the Iraq infrastructure and the lives of ordinary people there.

The United States has long been a country of people with their head in the sand who think we can live isolated from the world. We cannot. All finance is international and economics control our lives. All commerce is international and commerce controls politics as does finance. All resources are international issues and resources lead to war. We need international organizations more than ever to break down differences to core common values - the need for food, water, shelter, family security, religious freedom and meaningful work. These are nearly universal desires.

Those who would profit from our ignorance understand it is an international world and are just using the people with their head in the sand as pawns to get the lack of regulation they need to seek even higher profits and control more of financial and commercial markets. Keep people involved in social issues and the real economic issues will be in the control of those who can exploit them.

Simply. Government needs to keep its legislation out of personal lives except to extend freedoms, equality, health care, education, infrastructure and rights that make life worth living and fair for most citizens. Courts fill in for the differences in opinion. That's why we have juries of "peers."

Politics need to be concerned with living in a global economy and straightening out archaic methods of budgets, priorities, monetary controls, resource allocation, etc. for the future world, not some past vision of isolation.

So long as the politicians continue to lie to the people and they don't care, our position in the world will erode. Nations of power come and go across the historical context. Our time of power may be slipping as the religious and greedy attempt to take control. It slipped major during the Bush Administration - to put the republicans in control again is a major mistake. We do need the respect of the rest of the world. We do need engagement in international organization that assist us in seeking peaceful resolution to international concerns. The rest of the world is tribal and multi-cultural with historical beliefs very different from our own. To live in peace and prosperity requires cooperation - the costs of cooperation are small compared to the cost of war.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:16 am

Quote :
During that administration, I lived in fear of saying anything against the government; there was an atmosphere of big brother watching for those who were "unpatriotic" enough to believe that something was wrong - very wrong. We whispered about how wrong the Iraq war was....Remnants of that fear mongering remain.

We obviously lived in very different places. My progressive friends and I were in the minority, but it never kept us from speaking out. Over time, we even managed to change a few people's minds.

Quote :
I am ashamed every day of what we did to the Iraq infrastructure and the lives of ordinary people there.

I believe that what happened during that time and circumstance was very wrong, but I do not carry any personal shame, because I voted and spoke according to what I believed. Those were close elections, and almost as many of us were opposed as were supportive.

Quote :
The United States has long been a country of people with their head in the sand who think we can live isolated from the world. We cannot. All finance is international and economics control our lives. All commerce is international and commerce controls politics as does finance. All resources are international issues and resources lead to war. We need international organizations more than ever to break down differences to core common values - the need for food, water, shelter, family security, religious freedom and meaningful work. These are nearly universal desires.

Very true. More of us need to recognize our connection to and interdependence on the rest of the world. The only thing I wonder about is the statement, "The United States has long been a country of people with their head in the sand..." Are there people who have their heads in the sand here? Absolutely, and they are a big part of the problem. But there have always been those who looked reality in the face as well, and spoke out about those "new clothes" that the emperor thought he was wearing.

Change is hard, and will always be harder for some than others. Right now we are at a point where the numbers holding each of these two worldviews are close to equal. It is only a matter of time, and while the elections are important, however they go this round will not, in the long run, stop the change.

Quote :
Our time of power may be slipping as the religious and greedy attempt to take control

Maybe it is time for us to realize that "our time of power" has to slip. We cannot be the most powerful nation and be an equal member of the other world nations at the same time.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:40 am

Good posts DK and Ann. Recognizing we have a problem is the first step to solving it. Speaking out against injustice, past and present will help to make people aware of impending dangers, assuming they get their heads out of the sand.

I don't believe any nation can survive in isolation. All members are part of the chain and a weak link can cause that chain to break.

We often hear about the United Nations and how we should get out of it. I believe the United Nations is a very important body that provides an opportunity for member States to air their differences and work together to solve problems. What I don't like is the fact that several members have the right to veto resolutions. Resolutions that are agreed to by a body of nations who are connected to the world in which we live, only to have their ideas/desires denied because a powerful nation wants to have their way.

In my opinion, we need to support the UN. We need a world court with some power. A democratic world body.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:51 am

I'm glad you were free to speak during the Bush administration. I was not. I have always been in circles that are primarily Republican and wealthy. Though my financial circumstances took a dump under the Bush administration, some of my friends are still occasional. It's just hard to hang out with the set that frowns at coupons and won't shop at K-mart. One of my best days is a $1 coupon off the sale price of something I need. My friend did get a visit by the FBI for her phone calls to her son-in-law's Iranian mother and to her daughter. Her daughter and husband were frisked and stopped on every airplane flight they took, even with their three sons in tow.

Southwest Florida is a place of extreme wealth and high level church attendance. You can guess what political party predominates. If you want a voice in any election, you register republican to have a choice of republican candidates since democrats either don't run or you know they will be defeated. Hiring and firing decisions may be affected if one's political views are known.

I was at a dinner the other night with two women I recognized as in the same organization as me. Their conversation indicated to me they were democrats. My responses the same - and it was like long lost friends finding each other, carefully, tentatively then joyfully.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:58 am

Again, I agree.

Now, what are some of the first steps we could take in order to get there?

The blind man who is holding on so tightly to that elephant's tail is no more right or wrong than the one hugging its leg.

We have to begin by accepting the perspectives of those who don't hold our views. Their life circumstances have been as real for them as ours have been for us. We have to admit that we, in our own views are as limited in our own ways as they are in theirs. We have to genuinely listen to them as they tell us who they are so that we can grasp why they see what they see. We must approach the table as equals and be willing to work toward a consensus. If we come carrying that big stick, we will get nowhere. If we imply an ignorance or stupidity on their parts for not seeing things the way we think they should, we will get nowhere.
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A Ahad
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:13 pm

Abe,



The thing I've found is anything involving people is not always about the truth.

A machine, a process, an artifact of the material universe can be about the "absolute truth", however. The universe is a place of beauty and truth if we look beyond the courtroom arena of people.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:26 pm

I heard an NPR discussion today about lying during election time and how difficult it is for those in office to make promises because their records are visible as well as the restraints to their abilities to keep promises.

Those not in office can promise the moon and for four years not keeping those promises means nothing. Therefore it behooves them to promise 12 million jobs, 5% unemployment, the end of the deficit - anything that will fool the electorate into voting for them. Once in office, short of impeachment they have no obligation to meet any of their promises unless they plan to run for another term.

The speaker's suggestion was that all promises should by oath be backed up with the solid plan to make those promises possible. No plan - no promise.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:36 pm

10/15/2012



Sounds like Pres. Obama's promises...He never came

through and if re-elected he'll never come through

again, he' s in Wall Street and George Soro's pocket,

plus he became a multi-millionaire, he 's part of the

`1% he keeps talking about, As I say you've seen one

politician you've seen them all, same breed of cats.....



Cheers.Joe....
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:44 pm

I have a whole list of promises he kept: Universal health care, leaving Iraq, reduced interest rates for school loans, increased number of PELL for students, over 18 tax reductions for small businesses, no new wars, increased jobs every month, prevented the fall over the fiscal cliff, respected on the world statge, lowered unemployment rate, increased veterans benefits and continues to attempt to do more with great opposition, saved money on Medicare and extended its life, he didn't promise it but Wall STreet is the highest its been since long before he took office, and there's much more...signed the act that gives women the right to have equal pay for equal work, gave people permission to love who they wish during military service, and these are just off the top of my head. What promises did he not keep?
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:47 pm

10/15/2012

Sorry he hasn't done one thing to help seniors,

Seniors are the largest group in this country and if

they get going a politician can have his career destroyed.

So he hasn't done one thing except create 16.5 trillion in debt.

Cheers..Joe...
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:20 pm

All of my prescreening for diseases are now without co-pays; I have a weight program with my physician; medicare continues for 8 more years than originally and social security and medicare have not been made into private or voucher systems.

He is not cutting medicaid which pays for seniors who do not qualify for medicare and which pays for nursing home care and home care for many seniors. In fact, under the Affordable Care Act, more medicaid money goes to states to support medicaid programs that mostly serve hungry children, disabled and elderly citizens.

I was able to save my house when I lost my job and had to go on social security by the home refinance program set up under the Obama administration. Otherwise, I would be renting in a less desirable situation because rent is actually more than my house payments.

Your income may be sufficient to survive; I worked 51 years and because of the economic disaster under the Bush administration by 401 K hit the toilet, the school that employed me could not afford to stay in business, I lost my job, I nearly lost my house. I had no resources but social security and a small pension. My son lost his employment and I became responsible for him, and he has no medical insurance. The Affordable Health Care policy will make it possible for him to have insurance and get much needed medical care.
I could support us both because of the mortgage refinance through the Obama administration program.

I do not believe because I can make it that those less fortunate should just die. That is the result of hunger, poor health, lack of education and lack of employment or safe housing. When you make the kinds of cuts proposed by Romney/Ryan that will be the result.

A fair and equitable taxing structure is needed in a country as diverse and large as this one. The programs already in place and proposed by the Obama administration takes all citizens into consideration, especially the elderly, children, disabled and veterans. It allows women to make decisions about their own bodies and protects the rights of a diverse citizenry instead of limiting them.
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:01 pm

10/15/2012

DK..

Quote: " I can afford to support the both of us."

Are you proposing ?

Cheers..Joe...
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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:25 pm

Dear Diane,

You are a voice in the wilderness. Sometimes the wilderness is deaf.

Love,

Betty
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The Peoples Court   Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:33 pm

DK. I agree with what you said. Having a personal example says more than theory or assumptions. It is real when one is personally affected.
We know not what the future holds and can only deal with the present, however we do think of our children and wonder how they will manage. We want the best for them and don't want them to suffer the consequences of mis-management or subjugation. Without a middle class, the gap is widening between rich and poor. Most of us may be classified as "middle" even though we had our stint as upper and lower. We can understand the mentality of the upper and feel the pain of the poor. Without any hope or a safety net, there is no living - just surviving. We cannot continue to claim to be the best country on earth unless or until we show instead of tell. Based on the quality of life we cannot claim to be the greatest. According to the OECD, the US is ranked #3 in quality of life.
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