Commercial Fiction and Literary

Ok. What the difference? I know some of the masters in writing fifty years ago or more are considered literary, but whats examples today that I can compare?

Commerical to me is John Gs books about lawyers, Dan Brown, love his books. Oh, and romances, historical and modern.

I'll say one thing, if anybody here writes beautiful language, its Betty. She is the wisest person I've ever met, if you can call it meeting on a writers forum.

Hi Lynn,

Genre fiction has to fit onto a publisher's list. If you write romance novels, there is no point in submitting your work to a mystery/thriller publisher. Even within the romance genre there are imprints for different romantic series. You can check out the information for aspiring authors on the Mills & Boon website here:

http://www.millsandboon.co.uk/aspiringauthors.asp

You will find guidelines here about how to write the perfect romance:

http://www.millsandboon.co.uk/AAperfectromance.asp

and a FAQ page here:

http://www.millsandboon.co.uk/AAFAQ.asp

Literary fiction does not fit into a specific genre, is not plot driven and relies heavily on characterisation and keen observation of human interactions in more-or-less any setting.

You can read a discussion about literary fiction here:

http://www.writewords.org.uk/forum/65_117242.asp

Thanks Shelagh. I'm working on improving everything, so I'll read youre links. Everyone here says Ann writes literary, but to me, its like the romances I read. I liked her writing but I dont understand - why say it isn't? is com fiction so bad?

Commercial fiction is fine.

No, commercial fiction is not bad. Some of it is badly written. Good romance fiction is very difficult to write. It takes years of reading and a real love of the genre before a writer even puts pen to paper -- or finger to keyboard!

I don't read romance fiction but my mother-in-law used to read about three or four Mills & Boon romances every week (delivered by the library; she always had a pile of about six books to choose from). She also knew, after reading thousands of romance novels, if she'd already read the story -- not necessarily by the same author! Plot lines can be very similar and readers may think they have already read a story even if they haven't!

It has been said that Jane Austen wrote the romance stories of the day. Her books are among the best loved works of fiction ever written, which suggests that good romance writers of today may still be being read in a couple of centuries time. One of the reasons that you find Ann's work not dis-similar to the romance books you read; good romance fiction is on a par with literary fiction.

ok, that makes sence. I'll think about that.

Thanks, zizban!

Quote :

I'll say one thing, if anybody here writes beautiful language, its
Betty. She is the wisest person I've ever met, if you can call it
meeting on a writers forum.

When I use the term "commercial" fiction, I am referring to formulaic writing that adheres to a preset structure and format. I believe we had this conversation the last time the question came up. I like reading Dan Brown, too. He tells a great story. I don't think he is a great writer, but I would call it literary. Charles Frasier writes historical fiction. Cold Mountain is, for me, one of the best novels of our time. Literary fiction is not a genre, nor is about the age of a work. Romantic fiction has to do with ideals, and does not necessarily involve love stories. Science fiction can be literary when it tells its story in a fresh way.

Commercial writing is about commerce, in that it is a product designed to be sold, and its commercial value is more important than its artistic value.

How many critically acclaimed films are blockbusters?

Literary fiction is always a risk for the publisher, especially during hard times. And these are hard times, so they are only publishing known authors or those who are willing to write according to the generic formulas that will sell whether they are well written or not.

I do not know that I write literary fiction. I do not adhere to any formula, but try to let my stories write themselves. Sometimes they work; sometimes they don't. Even when they do, with today's market the way it is, they are not likely to find their way to an established publisher's list.

Sorry this is taking so long. My anti-virus program has decided to do one of its unscheduled updates, and Firefox's scripts are not responding, so this delightful computer of mine is hanging up every half-sentence.

I do not see myself as a particularly close-minded person. I express my opinions but I allow others to express theirs, and try to work toward both/and solutions. I prefer cooperation to competition, and am not inclined to get into arguments that don't seem to have win-win solutions.

I do not enjoy fighting. I am not very good at it, and do not express my thoughts as clearly under these circumstances. But I have said my piece and am done now. If it's a game you want, you will have to play it without me.

Ann

lyntx wrote:

Ok. What the difference? I know some of the masters in writing fifty years ago or more are considered literary, but whats examples today that I can compare?

For modern day literary ficition, the best example I can think of is Ann Tyler's Pulitzer-award-winning novel, Breathing Lessons.

I thought it was brilliant, but if you look at the reviews on Amazon, you will see that it received fifteen one-star reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Breathing-Lessons-Anne-Tyler/dp/0099201410

Everyone should be allowed to express their opinion, good or bad. We cannot all like the same things, and we do not put ourselves in a very good light if we attack someone for not liking the same things we do.

I have always disliked having to pigeonhole my writing, but the powers that be make you chose a genre. Suppose, if cornered, I might say I write contemporary fiction set in the Deep South, U.S.

This is often how I figure out if what I am reading would be classified as "literary". If I read a couple of chapters and have the start of a raging headache, it is probably literary fiction. Hah.

Now I've managed to offend those who might write such. Remember, I am the madhatter...

I think writing (and movies, and music, and ... all art) has a wide range.


I write fantasy, but I have a friend who also writes fantasy ... but it is much more deeper and philosophical than mine.

I've told him that he writes "Mozart" but that I write "Monkees".

They aren't the same type of music, but they have their place on iTunes.


But while his writing is beautiful and meaningful, like Classical music. Mine is fun and easy to enjoy.

While I think only one person on this forum has read my stuff ... so far all the reviews and comments I've received on it has been how much it was enjoyed.

I didn't set out to write "the great American novel". I just set out to write a modern day fairytale.

Different books have different purposes. And you can't compare a romance novel to book one of the Encyclopedia Britannica.

You can't compare "Moby Dick to "The Cat in the Hat".


Taste is an individual thing.

And like opinions ... well ....


Although my writing is fun, happily ever after, cutesy, and feel good. It does have value. The characters are flawed, diverse, they grow, they learn to embrace change, overcome prejudices, and while I didn't set out to give them that much depth ... it happened.

But I would dare call my work literary ... it is the book equivalent of Bubblegum Music. And there is nothing wrong with that.

We seem to have a royal brouhaha going over "Much Ado about Nothing."

I made a few statements that were taken out of context and enlarged into an apparent condemnation of genre specific writing, and that was not at all what I did or said.

Talk about getting a headache.

Like I said, I don't fight well, especially with those I thought were friends and knew that I supported their work.

Think what you want to think.

I'm done for a while.

Ann

Dear Ann,
I love the word 'brouhaha' because it sounds so friendly. In Nemo, the fish in the aquarium had a meeting, and the whole salute chant to call the fish to order was the repetition of the word brouhaha. I think the angel fish with the scars led the chant and then the underwater volcano blew a lot of bubbles that Nemo had to swim through as his initiation into the tank.

My dear friend, you have swam through a mirade of bubbles and earned your place of honor in this tank.

Love,
Betty

lyntx wrote:

Thanks Shelagh. I'm working on improving everything, so I'll read youre links. Everyone here says Ann writes literary, but to me, its like the romances I read. I liked her writing but I dont understand - why say it isn't? is com fiction so bad?

I didn't see that Ann said it was bad. I thought she meant it was not educational. Do you think it is?

Dear Alice,
I love your hat! Hats are so important. I never used to wear hats so now I have little knobs growing on the top of my head. Who knew back when I was playing tennis that the sun was scorching my scalp and that when I was pulling all those weeds out of pots in the plant nursery that I was an idiot.

The main thing on message boards must be to understand the language. I never thought about it before, never considered that I had to weigh my words lest they should offend someone who did not understand what I meant to say which was most always not something that they should take offense by reading anyway and then if they did how to defend my words.

We are like an open book. read posts at your own risk and understanding. No blame cast for mis-understanding. No balderdash.

Like Abe says, 'no matter the question, love is the answer.'

Love,
Betty

While we are on this subject, I will expound: I write non-ficiton. I dont care if anyone likes it or not.

If Ann had a student in her class who said he/she only read what I wrote, I
would expect her to say, "Where will that get you?"

If she didn't say that she would be a very bad teacher. That is how I see it.

After all we are hardly literary masters here!

Thank you, Betty!

I have hats everywhere. You are so kind.

Love ya,

Alice

alice wrote:

After all we are hardly literary masters here!

Speak for yourself. I'm a literary master. Joking aside, I read a wide variety of books. I have a complete set of Charles Dickens's stories, most of Jane Austen's novels, Thomas Hardy's stories and Henry James's and George Eliot's and Elizabeth Gaskill's and the Brontes. I've read lots of twentieth century novelists' books: D. H. Lawrence, George Orwell, John Steinbeck, Mark Twain, Harper Lee, A. S. Byatt, E. M. Forster, T. S. Eliot, Robert Graves, Graham Greene, Ernest Hemingway, Aldous Huxley, James Joyce, Philip Larkin, J. D. Salinger, Amy Tan.

I have most of John Grisham's books, many by Anne Tyler and all the Patricia Cornwell Scarpetta novels.

When we moved from Glasgow to South Wales, I gave away boxes of paperbacks to the local library: Joanna Trollope, Mary Wesley, Maeve Binchy and a host of modern-day writers.

The only time I would read romantic fiction would be on holiday if there was nothing else to read. Nah, I probably wouldn't even then.

Lighten up, Ann, it's perfectly okay to not like something and to say so!

Quote :

Lighten up, Ann, it's perfectly okay to not like something and to say so!

One would think so.

Ann

There is usually romance in great stories. The ultimate quest of every human is to find love. It is like the pot at the end of rainbows and the wonderful thing about stories that make the finding a possibility for every human no matter how ugly, no matter how hard hearted, no matter what . . .is writing words that ignite the vision they have seen already.

Great writers play word symphony that leads to the finale where love is concerned. In their books, love is not base, it is more mental than physical, a song that sings in the readers brain.
Ultimate satisfaction.

Love,
Betty

I agree its ok not to like something. Their are a lot of things I dont like. What I objected to was the slur on com fiction, calling it a 'paint by numbers' type of writing as if anyone could do it and it didnt count toward true art. Or that it was boring or saying it was dummying down the reading population.

If I didn't like something, I would say I didn't care for it if I was around people who do like it or was wanting to do it. I wouldnt look down my nose at them and try to make them feel inferior.

But everyone here seems to think everything she says should be carved in stone. Why, I don't know, but thats the way it is. So I'll leave the discussion. Just wanted to make it clear.

You have made it clear, crystal clear that you do not like what she said.
Why don't you poll educators and get some more opinons?
You might be surprised.

What do you really know that improves your life after reading a formula fictious book?
Are you wiser?
Very curious.

lyntx wrote:

I agree its ok not to like something. Their are a lot of things I dont like. What I objected to was the slur on com fiction, calling it a 'paint by numbers' type of writing as if anyone could do it and it didnt count toward true art. Or that it was boring or saying it was dummying down the reading population.

If I didn't like something, I would say I didn't care for it if I was around people who do like it or was wanting to do it. I wouldnt look down my nose at them and try to make them feel inferior.

But everyone here seems to think everything she says should be carved in stone. Why, I don't know, but thats the way it is. So I'll leave the discussion. Just wanted to make it clear.

That's a bit of a cop out, isn't it, Lynn? I can't say that certain forms of literature are "paint by numbers" but it's okay if that phrase applies to artwork? It's okay to look down on people with no drawing skills who can only fill in with areas of colour, but it isn't okay to look down on low level fiction? Why's that? Is it because of the subjectivity of who decides what is poor fiction, while it is a universally held view that painting by numbers is a low art form?

I can draw. I'm not the most skillful draftsperson you'll ever meet, but I can draw reasonably well. As a child, I was always drawing, so my mother bought me a paint-by-numbers kit that I filled in and gave as a present to my grandmother. One of her step-grandchildren was educationally sub-normal. She also produced a painting for my grandmother. Her painting was much more attractive than mine. She did not have the skills I did to stay within the lines. The colours overlapped and merged. The effect was that of a real painting. Mine looked like a painting by numbers. Being good at something does not necessarily produce attractive work. That's where creativity comes in. When we see it, we recognise it. Just as, when we read something that reads like a "painting by numbers" we recognise it.

First, I had my neighbor correct my words and sentences so I
could be clear about what I was saying.


I love music but growing up, my folks couldn’t afford to buy
a flute so I could play in the band. I went to work as soon as I could and
bought clothes and other things I needed. One day I went to a neighbors moving
sale and bought one of those 2 keyboard organs dirt cheap. I was so happy. I
couldn’t afford lessons, but it was one of those that you touched one key and
it played the cord. You played the song with your right hand, so I kept picking
at it and learned to play enough that I enjoyed it. So did my mom. One time my
mom wanted me to play something in front of my dad. I didn’t want to because he
always had that attitude that I was never good enough no matter what I did, but
my mom made me play. I was so proud because I played a song he liked and I didn’t
make any mistakes.


When I got through, he looked at the organ and said
something like I wasn’t really playing because the organ did it all for me. He made me feel that what I enjoyed wasn’t good enough. I felt pretty
bad and finally got rid of the organ.


My sister loves to paint, but she has no talent, so she
still buys the paint by numbers kit and loves it. So there are pictures you can
paint by numbers.


In writing, even romances, you have to make up the story and
the people in your story, so its not paint by numbers writing. The way I
understand it, romances have a formula, boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy and
girl get together. Everything else is made up by the writer and that’s a whole
big story to make up.


Now I don’t care what anyone on here likes or dislikes. I
hoped for support and to learn but I didn’t expect attitudes like my father
had.

lyntex,

How old are you?
How educated are you?

We need to know in order to help you.

Enjoyment. A belief that things can work out of two people want them to. I read the serious stuff like grammar books and I've read To Kill a Mockingbird and others. But I like the down to earth romances. Sleepless in Seattle is romance too, or at least my teacher says it is. I suppose you and that other person is going to say its literary fiction.

My neighbor is going home now so I wont be posting any more. Im tired of fussing. I dont care who likes what or why or who likes anybody here. I'll go to class and read my books and learn from my teacher.