Is it time for Revolt?

Is it time for Revolt? Are Global Warming and Health Care Reform issues politically related?

In discussions about Global Warming, the far right doesn’t buy into the notion that pollution is the cause. In discussions about healthcare reform, the far right doesn’t feel change is needed. There are thousands of scientists who have studied the causes of global warming. Scientists have seldom, if ever, been in total agreement on any issue and it is easy to find scientists that will support one’s political agenda. There are doctors and insurance companies that want things to remain as they are and find political support.

Past arguments to delay implementation of pollution controls on industry was purported that it would hurt the economy. It would require corporations to spend much money to reduce emissions.

Past arguments to prevent controls on financial markets and institutions was that it would inhibit a free market economy. The freewheeling of the financial institutions, without controls, led to the crash on Wall Street, and that hurt the economy. The freewheeling of insurance companies to insure only healthy people, exclude pre-existing conditions and maintain high profits, are fighting to block change with political support.

The middle class is declining as more slide into the poor category. These same people, many without a healthcare program or one that is adequate, support political views that benefit the rich. Why? Brainwashing by highly paid public relations firms know how to tap into the psyche of Middle America. They talk about long waiting lines and substandard care if government controlled. They use terms like communism, socialism and other isms as scare tactics to keep the poor in their place, and people succumb to this propaganda.

In the preamble to our constitution it states, “…promote the general welfare…” It did not mean the general welfare of the rich, but of all Americans. Abe Lincoln expressed in his Gettysburg Address: “…a government of the people, by the people and for the people…“ Not having a government “for the people” is part of the reason 13 colonies revolted. Is it time for another revolt?

I don't know, Abe. I think Americans would welcome healthcare for everyone if they could see a way for the country to afford it. It's the job of politicians to prove that it is affordable and will not be a drain on public resources that will lead to less money spent on education, policing, roads etc.

Helathcare will cost billions. It's a question of: "who pays?"

It’s a question of priorities. Of course it will cost billions. The unnecessary war in Iraq cost billions. We spend billions abroad every year at the expense of the US tax payer. We spend billions protecting nuclear weapons that are housed around the world. We support a belligerent country that defies us, etc., etc. Charity begins at home. There is much unnecessary spending that can be cut.
Our country is in debt. We had a budget surplus and it was blown. If the citizen is asked to tighten his belt, then the government must do the same.
President Obama was elected by the will of the people, and one of his main campaign promises was healthcare reform. The opposition is trying to kill it against the will of the people. Taxation without representing the interests of the people is wrong. It is time for change or revolt.

We don't need a revolt Abe...we are writers.

Abe is right, he wrote just the true, the true not need be anchored only in the viewpoint of American.
By the way, the main role of a writer is revolt.

Good thread, Abe.

Part of the high cost of health care can be traced to misuses of the current system. Drug companies pedal pills that people don't really need - just listen to a TV commercial touting one. The voice-over is so positive, and at the end, in that same positive pleasant voice, it slips in the possible side effects, including death. Hospitals pad their bills to the insurance companies, charging several hundred dollars a day for things like a half-dozen ear swabs - we've posted recent reports on the current events thread. Yesterday I read where ceasarian sections have increased by 50%.

And domenic as Harry says, as writers we have the ability to promote a "bloodless revolt," by encouraging a change in the worldview, or paradigm that Abe describes in his blog.

Ann

Excellent posts and discussion.

Thanks, Abe. You have a world view and I respect your opinion.

Yesterday I got an email from a good friend. He told me about an unnecessary operation planned for his wife. He got another opinion and stopped the process. He told me that there are lawsuits against physicians who perform unnecessary operations. He says, "It's all about money."

Not all physicians are like that, but the few give a bad name for the profession. One must be careful with purchasing healthcare services just as with purchasing a product.

Tom is reading a book on overtreatment, about how so many pills and procedures are really unnecessary, are done to protect doctors, etc.

I have had a few missteps in treatment. First of all a doctor who did not diagnose the problem for months, but then our going to Mayo Clinic saved my life and got me on a better path.

I think I have good treatment now, but not without our stepping in and making it come about. We need to be proactive, learn about meds.

Now I am refusing procedures. I will have no more x-rays in the near future.

You have to advocate for yourself, learn as much as you can, consult with others. I think I have a good medical team at the present time.

It is time for revolt, but not violent revolt. Lots of writing. Lots of stating opinions in such a way that others will listen. We need to stop ruling out of fear. People are fearing change, but that is exactly what we need.

Carol

Carol Troestler wrote:

Tom is reading a book on overtreatment, about how so many pills and procedures are really unnecessary, are done to protect doctors, etc.

I have had a few missteps in treatment. First of all a doctor who did not diagnose the problem for months, but then our going to Mayo Clinic saved my life and got me on a better path.

I think I have good treatment now, but not without our stepping in and making it come about. We need to be proactive, learn about meds.

Now I am refusing procedures. I will have no more x-rays in the near future.

You have to advocate for yourself, learn as much as you can, consult with others. I think I have a good medical team at the present time.

It is time for revolt, but not violent revolt. Lots of writing. Lots of stating opinions in such a way that others will listen. We need to stop ruling out of fear. People are fearing change, but that is exactly what we need.

Carol

Well said.

Ann

I appreciate all your comments. When I advocate revolt, you should know by now I don't mean violence. "The pen is mightier than the sword" is implied. Carol said, "People are fearing change, but that is exactly what we need." I agree. "To Grow, to progress, is to change."

"I have had a few missteps in treatment. First of all a doctor who did
not diagnose the problem for months, but then our going to Mayo Clinic
saved my life and got me on a better path."

Carol, what would you have done had you had no insurance, and not enough money to go to the Mayo Clinic? For millions and millions or people that choice is not available, and they are left with one doctor, no second opinion, no specialized care, and so they do what they can. Many die as a result of this. It is for that reason alone that I say we must have health care for everyone. Good health care that will allow other people the same option of going to the Mayo Clinic that you had. If the Mayo Clinic saved your life, and I believe it did, then surely others deserve the same opportunity.

I'm very glad you had the option to do what was best for yourself, and that you are still around to offer your excellent input into these discussions. I truly hope the day comes when everyone will be treated the same.

E. Don, I think Mayo will see people whether they can pay or not, but I was most fortunate to also have the information needed from friends.

You are speaking to one of the greatest proponents of universal health care there is. I have a son equally believing in the importance who calls me at least twice a day with the latest developments, stayed up for the passing of the bill, and cried at its passage.

I was on the other end with a certified mental health center where insurance, medicare, and medicaid payments were accepted. Then there were those with no ability to pay. My business partner and I saw those people with no means to pay. We were not going to leave people hurting, just as those in emergency rooms do not leave people bleeding and hurting.

There also needs to be more education. What does this bill really mean? What really happens in other countries. Abe's views have been valuable here. We pay more for health care per person than most other countries. Our infant mortality rate and life expectancy rate are low considering the technology we have.

There is much work to be done. I would love to be an active part of it. Our small town has one of the best 100 small hospitals in the country and they soon recognized I had not gotten the care I needed. They have stepped up to the plate to save my life after my diagnosis at Mayo.

At one time I was asked to be on a committee to help the hospital have better diagnostic services, sharing my Mayo Clinic experience and looking at what part of it could be adapted to a small town hospital. However, at the time I became more ill and could not participate, but I have improved greatly and would love to be involved. There also needs to be patient advocates that share knowledge and procedures in ways to get care.

Perhaps all I can do is write about it.

My mother was a good woman who worked much of her life, as did my father. She lived to be 93 and indeed outlived her money. Medicaid paid $150,000 for the five years of her care at the nursing home. It would have been my responsibility and I would have worked it out, but she told me she had worked hard, paid taxes, and felt it was all right she received this money. I did help out, however, for extras and made sure she got the care she needed.

Love, Carol

" My mother was a good woman who worked much of her life, as did my father. She lived to be 93 and indeed outlived her money. Medicaid paid $150,000 for the five years of her care at the nursing home. It would have been my responsibility and I would have worked it out, but she told me she had worked hard, paid taxes, and felt it was all right she received this money. I did help out, however, for extras and made sure she got the care she needed."

You mentioned that she left a lot of unpaid credit card debt behind, too, which collectors were after. What do you think society should do about that? Since she worked hard and paid taxes, do you think we all have a collective responsibility to pay her old-age expenses? Serious question.

My mother was an independent woman who took responsibility and did not ask for help readily. Her credit cards bills were mostly for meds for my father before seniors got help for prescription meds. I helped and would have more but helping this lady was not easy.

Someone from the credit cards accused her of stealing. She did not. She paid back all she had borrowed. What was left was huge interest. And what amazed me was she still got offers of credit cards in the mail. What in the world did a credit card company think of offering credit to a lady in her late eighties who could not pay? If they had not, she would have asked for help sooner, much cheaper and no interest.

This was a very sad part of my life. I loved this lady. I had the means to help. I paid for her stay in assisted living until she no longer take care of herself there. I built a handicap assessable house but by the time it was built she was in need of a nursing home, 24 hour care by numerous nurses and medical people.

Love, Carol

Interest was part of the debt, though, because banks don't lend money for free. It cost them money (interest paid to the Fed bank for their own loans) to lend to her with no profit.

You didn't answer the question. Should "society" (aka the taxpayer) step in to pay credit card debt and corresponding interest for seniors who can't pay it on their own and whose family don't pay it for them? You mentioned that she continued to get credit card apps, are you implying that it's the banks own fault if they get ripped off?

If a credit card company offers a card to someone who doesn't qualify, and that person responds and the company fails to do any background checks at all, and they give the person a card, then they have no one to blame but themselves if they lose money. They should do more checking before they send out the offers, and a lot more checking once someone actually applies. And then they should turn down those who don't qualify. If they don't turn them down, and they don't pay, then far as I'm concerned it's just part of the cost of the way they do business. It's pretty simple, really.

A friend of mine's mother bought a new Lincoln Continental every two years. The dealer delivered the car and later took care of the paperwork based on a call from her. When she didn't call one year, the dealer learned she was not well and would not be changing out her car. Her Alzheimers progressed and she resented my friend taking away her checkbook and her driver's license. To "get even" (part of the illness thinking), her mom called the dealer and ordered her new Lincoln Continental delivered. They brought the paperwork which she signed that included applications for the financing (as had always been done in the past). They even pulled the car into her garage. It was some time before my friend discovered her mother owned a new Lincoln and was committed to a major financing package. She called the dealer. It was a totally legal transaction by her mother. The dealer came and quietly took the car back and made all arrangements with their finance agency to end the entire transaction as though it had not happened.

That was during a time when businesses still considered their role in a community as part of the community.

E. Don Harpe wrote:

If a credit card company offers a card to someone who doesn't qualify, and that person responds and the company fails to do any background checks at all, and they give the person a card, then they have no one to blame but themselves if they lose money.

Well, everyone gets those pre-approval apps, and I'm assuming that's what Carol meant. They're not a guarantee of approval.

She mentioned those apps, though, so I'm wondering if she thinks sending out pre-approvals to the obviously unqualified is, itself, justification for being defrauded.

And banks may have "no one to blame but themselves" if they don't check, but even that suggests an "so it's ok to defraud them" mentality.

A person I once knew quite well lived a very high style of life: international travel, the best hotels, a grand house, the most expensive automobiles and all the trappings of ostentatious wealth. His first bankruptcy was at the age of 35; it relieved him of all his obligations and cleared his slate to start over. I don't know the bankruptcy laws, but the next one was whenever it was legal again, relieving him of all his debts, personal and business, leaving small business people and large credit companies unpaid for his extravagant use of their credit. He recently went bankrupt for the third time. This time, I don't think he started over as well, but did manage to hid enough resources to live out his remaining years in comfort.

Since I know him, I figure he's not the only one who has figured out how to live high and use the system that is truly set up to assist those who really can start over and contribute sufficiently to society to repay their earlier mistakes.

I believe he is a thief.

Credit cards were a new experience that created wants through aggressive advertising that burned into the brain, sucking even the very young college students into a lifetime of credit hell. Like all drugs, the addiction to instant gratification spreads and is supported by the greed of those who profit. If there are no protections, the innocent are sucked in. No, I don't believe the aggressive advertisers and businesses who gain from pain are without guilt; and I believe they need to share in the correction of the grief they spread.

I disagree. Credit is a great tool, correctly used. I also don't believe that advertising creates wants. It taps into existing wants. Final action is up to us. We need to take ownership for those actions.

DK,
I too know of people who used the system of easy credit to live high on the hog without "equity" to back up the credit. Using one credit card to make the payments on another until all cards were maxed out and then filing for bankruptcy. Years ago, if one went bankrupt, you could not get future credit unless restitution was made.
The system, until recently, encouraged the use of credit cards. They made their money on the high interest. As long as people could make the minimum monthly payment and show a "steady" payment record, they got a higher credit line and more credit cards. We saw the financial melt down. Irresponsible loans contributed to that. How many people in the "yuppy" category drive the latest model leased cars, live in huge houses financed to the hilt? It is lots of show with nothing to support the lifestyle. They are called "homeowners". They own nothing. The banks or credit institutions own it. When someone suggests that people in another country don't have as many homeowners, they're talking about different standards.

I guess when I compare cultures I have to compare what I have lived and experienced. There are placed in the United States where people still live in communities that are conservative and supportive of each other. Communication of material wants has infiltrated everywhere, however. I remember visiting New Zealand in the 1970's; it reminded me of movies and stories I'd seen of the U.S. in the 1950's. I'm sure today there's little difference between New Zealand and Australia.

I try not to judge. What works in one culture may not work well in another. I feel that in the U.S. the explosion of an automobile culture and the Madison Avenue advertising that tied a person's value to their car will some day be seen as the dividing line between communities and the suburban sprawl that has helped disintegrate family ties and the associated values of thrift and saving for the future.

The next step was the credit card that took away the need to save for tomorrow. Tomorrow is now; the future is uncertain.

Whether these things are good or bad is left to future generations and history to discern. They are just marks of the U.S. economic changes. Many people come here from all over the world to participate in this "today" culture of excess.
Our economic slump is a time of joy to U.S. visitors from European countries. I hear the gleeful shouts of shopping women with accents because clothing is so cheap.

Abe F. March wrote:

How many people in the "yuppy" category drive the latest model leased cars, live in huge houses financed to the hilt?

I don't know, how many? I'm sure there are lots. I'm equally sure there are more who faithfully make their payments and support the deadbeats. If there weren't, the system would have completely collapsed by now. This has nothing to do with the ability to buy one's home instead of being a life-long renter, but nice stretch, anyhow.