How Should You Disagree With Someone?

If a fellow poster posts something you do not like, should you:

Tell them off about everything, ignore them or stick to the issue at hand?

When you are through trouncing them should you leave or stay to discuss it?

Just Curious.

Do you like to be told off?

Sticking to the issue at hand is a good idea.

Carol

Thank you.

Carol and I, and probably some others here, have done some studying on guerrilla warfare.


A conversation I had with David on that subject:

Dave: The bushwhackers were guerrillas? I thought bushwhackers were people who hid behind bushes and whacked people.

Me: Jeesh! David. And just what do you think guerrillas do??


Kind of like a hit-and-run tactic. It can leave one a bit confused and off-kilter for a bit.

I just try to sound smarter than them



Ann

I just try to sound smarter than them



Ann,

You succeed very well.

I have found the quickest way to silence them is to agree with them. They don't know what to do.

It's been my experience that some people appear to enjoy trouncing on others. It gives them a sense of control and power. Instead of talking about the ideas presented and presenting facts, they watch for someone's weakness or hot button or soft place and then attack the person to win their point. A good attack can stop a conversation immediately, especially someone of a different nature.

I find that type of attack particularly repugnant in a place that is about words. If the same people, the trouncer and the recipient of the hurtful remarks, met several times over coffee and faced each other; the immediate exchange would provide opportunities wherein ugly exchanges would likely not occur. Note how carefully people drive and smile in the church parking lot when a prize parking space is zoomed into as one has their eye on it, or on a snowy day a fender bender occurs.

My nature is to seek harmony. I have found that it is a slower way to solve conflicts; yet, the result is lasting. I know that there are several people on this forum who present themselves similarly, a preference for harmony to conflict. Fortunately, the world has a place for each personality type; and I'm grateful for the peacemakers and those that have open minds and open hearts.

Some people have a nature geared to conflict; they enjoy the adrenalin rush of heated debate. As long as the debate revolves around ideas, opinions and facts, I'm as interested in a good debate as the next person. However, when a person is attacked, a person whose true identity might even be unknown, I would rather be somewhere else.

Brilliant, DK! You said in one of your posts that Betty sums things up nicely -- and she does. You give longer explanations but they are very much to the point.

A healthy debate is invigorating and brings members onto the forum. Trying to win the argument by being rude never succeeds.

Dk,

You are a treasure.

The variety of people on this messageboard is one of the things I love about it. We have different writing styles, live in different places, and bring all this together here. Some write quick creative messages, others longer essays, and others put works on WIP. They are all about being creative.

As a business owner I had to learn about some of this, and had a loving daughter who once told me when I was especially upset about something, "Mom, do you want to win, or do you want peace?"

I want peace. Winning usually means someone is feeling sad.

Carol

DK, your analysis is right on target.
Winning means someone has to lose. Trying to win when sharing ideas is bound to create animosity.
When a post reaches the point of "I'm right and you're wrong," it is no longer a discussion. And then the fight begins.

I think it depends on what the arguement is about. None of us would agree with the idea's put forward by the Neo-Nazi's, even though their thinking seems to be spreading. And I am also sure if some one were to come onto a forum one of us was on, we would argue strongly against their idea of the perfect world.
A few years back I was accused by a forum of making post that I didn't. I was not at the time even a member but joined to defend my name. I knew who had made the post for they were a family member. In the end I was banned from the forum without clearing my name. Yes I could have taken legal advice though this would have been overkill and cost me not my accuser.
What were the post? Well they said nasty things about a former place that I work as well as about one of the bosses. As I said, I never made the comments and wasn't even a member till I was accused. All the post I made in my defense were deleted because it was the admin that made the accusation aand he was god of his little world. I won't say what site for that would not be the right thing to do.
What did I learn from it? Well some arguements you win but it really depend who it is you have it with. But one thing is for sure, don't be a mouse and hide in a corner if someone is wrong for that is how Hitler came to power.

thehairymob wrote:

But one thing is for sure, don't be a mouse and hide in a corner if someone is wrong for that is how Hitler came to power.

I don't know of any mice on this board. We speak our minds. We disagree.

My daughter who gave the good advice about peace speaks her mind quite often, to her boss, her family members, her friends.

And the important thing is we each of us see things from our own corners of the world, our own goals, our own endeavors.

Carol

Winning doesn't necessarily mean someone has to lose. It is possible to find a win/win solution. If, when you and another disagree, you both have a win/win goal as your target, an agreeable solution is often the result.

Ann

A couple of years ago I read a book by a Marine General titled "The Battle for Peace." As a country, we have the resources to win any war, but instead we battle for peace. I have no idea if we can achieve it, but we keep trying.

My husband and I have disagreed on more things than we'd like to admit. Some we've come to agree to disagree and respect the other's opinion coming from who we are as individuals. Some we've come to consensus.

When we do that here, it is outstanding.

Carol

Ann,
I was associated with the "win-win" philosophy. It sounds great, but is it reality? If a game of sports ends in a tie, it is a draw. In this case both won and lost. In our war with Iraq, Bush felt we couldn't leave unless we won. If that meant killing thousands more and losing more American lives, it was okay as long as we could say we won. Crap!

To admit defeat, a wrong or that one made a mistake, takes courage and is more meaningful than shouting, "I won."

As for discussions on this forum, disagreements are expected. It is how we handle it. If one is in error of judgment and admits it, they are held in high esteem. Those who insist on being right even when it is obvious that they are wrong, lose more than esteem.

Being unjustly accused is perhaps the most difficult situation to be in. Being innocent until proven guilty goes out the window. Innuendo often leaves a perception of guilt.

Perhaps a discussion on how to deal with being falsely accused would elicit ways to handle that situation.

Abe F. March wrote:

Being unjustly accused is perhaps the most difficult situation to be in. Being innocent until proven guilty goes out the window. Innuendo often leaves a perception of guilt.

Perhaps a discussion on how to deal with being falsely accused would elicit ways to handle that situation.

I don't know about being innocent or guilty, but I think often people just don't completely know another on this messageboard. Well, we've discussed that before. I've dealt with being misunderstood, and perhaps it is a combination of explaining oneself in words and others listening. Sometimes people have perceptions based on past experiences.

I have a great deal more understanding of those whose books I have read. If someone writes 50,000 or so thousand words and I have read them, I've gotten to know them in interesting ways. I think true personalities come out loud and strong.

Carol

It is easy to misunderstand someone when in forums. After all we don't have the other things to tell us in what way it was meant to sound or if a remark was even aimed at you. Ther are so many things that can easily lead to crossed wires and people arguing over nothing.

Quote :

Ann,
I was associated with the "win-win" philosophy. It sounds great, but is it reality?

Abe, it can be. It depends on whether you view reality as being either/or or both/and. Are our differences polarities or complementarities? It's like the yin/yang idea. Each side contains the seed of its opposite:



When we genuinely accept our diversity, the arguments no longer matter, and what is good for the whole community becomes more important than either side.

We just need to broaden our concept of reality, and be willing to accept change.

Ann

Ann, you are right. I was objecting to the over used "win-win" cliche. When I was in sales, I was taught that making a sale was a win-win situation. The customer got the product they needed or wanted and you got the sale. It is that kind of misuse that I object to. What about the customer who became dissatisfied with the purchase or the product turned out to be bad? Win-win or win-lose? Life is not a game of sports and that was a bad analogy.
There are always two sides to a story and the truth often lies somewhere in the middle. Seeking a middle road, a balance, call it win-win, yin/yang or whatever, will work. Compromise in order to move forward, gives balance. Marriage is a good example of compromise to keep the peace - balance. To always be right, to insist on things going your way without consideration of the other person ends in failure.

Each person feels he/she is right in their views or opinion. If they are open-minded and receptive, they may change their views. The need to always be right and never admit a mistake is repulsive.

I have been editing my "Cabin Journals." Life moves slow in the northwoods and often is filled with distractions and interruptions as happens here. Sometimes just going with the flow and what presents itself is a good idea. I have a chapter about the closing on our lot, something we expected to take 20 minutes.

We closed on the purchase of our lot in the summer of 1996. We thought the closing would take only twenty minutes, but we began to learn what it meant to live in the Northwoods: that people loved to talk, and that life was often at a slow pace. Four hours later than expected, we left for home.

I told the realtor about my grandfather’s family spending the summer on Squirrel Lake back in the 1930s. He said, “Just a minute. I’ll call my mother. She lived around Squirrel Lake in the 30s and could perhaps give us some idea where they would have stayed.” After the call, the seller of the lot, Herb, arrived and had to talk for about a half hour about his recent fishing trip to Canada.

When the closing was finally over, Herb asked if we would like him to go out to the lot with us and tell us about the land we had purchased. We said, “Sure,” as we had planned to go and check out our new land anyway. On the way we noticed a sign about a half-mile down the road that had my husband’s employer’s symbol on it, and we decided we would stop back later to check on who this was.

Herb met us at the lot as planned and told us that he had originally owned a great deal of land there. He had first built the A-frame next door and had lived in a tiny green shed still there while the house was being built. He also had a maple syrup operation in this small building later on. He had gotten an old kidney dialysis machine from a hospital and had used this in some way in his maple syrup operation. (As I write this I wonder at the accuracy. The building is quite small for someone to live in and how a dialysis machine could produce maple syrup is beyond me.)

Herb spoke about the cool breeze off the lake, something we later found to cool us even on warm days.

After learning about the lot, we decided to check out the people who obviously had a connection to my husband’s airline employer and probably a fellow pilot. Tom had not met him before, but working for the same employer and now owning property on the same lake, they had a connection. I asked this man if they knew anyone who rented boats since I wanted to get out on the lake, and he and his wife said, “Come on, we’ve got lots of boats. We’ll get out the pontoon and take you for a ride.”

They took us around the lake and told us about the island, that a gangster had lived in the big house there during prohibition, that the house had a bowling alley, and that a copper still had been found in the bay off the island a few years before. It was a wonderful boat ride and the last one we would have for a couple of years until we purchased a boat of our own.

Four hours after the closing began, we started for home.

I like to think about Bugs Bunny when I find someone who likes to argue a point until it's flat as roadkill.

Bugs would argue at a white-hot speed, then midway take the opposing viewpoint. Then, the character arguing would immediately switch sides just to be obstinate. Bugs would win because he outsmarted the other guy. Made me laugh every time.

I really don't mind someone disagreeing with me, but I don't like it when I'm made to feel as if my opinion doesn't count. Or that I am being personally attacked.

It's about respect.

Dear Rhett,

It is about respect.

I know that lots of stuff I post is not a mind bender. But, if someone were to come on here and tell me that I posted too much and that what I posted was drivel so no one wanted me here, It would hurt. I am not sure I would know what to do.

My first inclination would be to quit posting and slink off into oblivion.

I am reminded of Joy McQuistion who withstood Pierrette and James and Rudy and then just left in confusion.

How unfair to be attacked like that!

Love,
Betty

Yes, Betty. It's very unfair. Especially so when the person attacked is nothing like the attacker's description,.

There is nobody here who is perfect or blameless. That is especially true when we are stressed for one reason or another.

Righteous indignation can be a temporary boost when we are down, but it can have repercussions we don't anticipate.If we have a common goal, especially right now, it must be to help each other through a rough time.

Ann

You mean I'm not perfect? Boy, you learn something new every day.

I don't take anything seriously that is said on a forum. If I react badly to a post, it is because I am stressed or tired. I assume that others do the same when they are having a bad day.

I have learned that apologies don't work; forum members tend to have elephant minds. The best way to deal with confrontations is to just back off. Tomorrow's another day. Talking of which, this is another day in the UK. It's 12.20am. Night all.