If it isn't broken then ...

... don't fix it. If it isn't working, give up. Before I was banned on the AW forum (page 18, new NEPAT), I suggested that the PublishAmerica threads should be removed from the sticky posts at the top of the Bewares and Background Check Board and a new board set up. I also said that interest would dwindle if those threads were moved. That was February, 2006. Shortly after I made the suggestion, a sub board was set up for all the PA discussions with the new and old NEPAT threads pinned to the top of the board.

Today, I looked at the dates and views for the two threads. The old NEPAT received 2,049,452 views over a period of twenty-six months (end of November, 2003 - beginning of February, 2006). Average number of views/day = 2,594

The new NEPAT received 787,834 views over a period of forty-three months (end of January, 2006 - end of August 2009). Average number of views/day = 604. The last post on this thread was made five days ago (August 18th).

The last remaining posters have little to offer on the NEPAT and spend their time on the son of PAMB thread taking potshots at authors who post on the PA message boards. Of course, PA authors are not the target. Yeah, right.

This is Macallister Stone we're talking about here. As soon as she took over the place went down hill.

Or maybe people just got tired of the same old thing.

Or maybe times are changing.

Or maybe people found out all that was said there was not true.

Or maybe people just went back to writing.

Carol

I am numbed to it myself. After reading those threads for years, I don't care anymore. If someone can't google PublishAmerica and read what has been written about them, then, well, they did it to themselves. Or if they read and ignored the warnings, well, again, too bad.

No sense crying out at the village center is if no one is listening.

Thank you, Shelagh,

I was wanting a fight--now if Brenda will come along and say how much she enjoys kdu's posts, life will be complete.

And if someone went to PA knowing what they were getting into and it worked for them, well, its all good.

Ann

Regarding the importance of AW's PA threads. The judge in the Cretella vs. Kuzminski defamation case reduced the jury award to Cretella from $250,000 to $53,000. Why? Because he considered the AW (PA) threads to be of such little significance that defamatory posts there could not and did not damage Cretella. Still it was defamation and defamation that does not actually damage a person still requires "nominal damages" to be awarded. That is what the $53,000 is for... nominal damages.

I do not agree with that jury.

The amount of hate generated towards PA from AW was ridiculous.

Even today I feel some authors are afraid to use PA because of the stigma they would feel.

I do know they got some authors out of print entirely---made it sound so easy to get a contract that some authors got theirs rescinded. I don't see their books on any best seller lists either.

The idea that every well-written book will bag a publisher is an old sick joke.

It does cut down their competition though--clever really, get everyone writing and rewriting.

$53,000 is still a lot of money.

Carol

What I was trying to say was that the judge found there were five counts of defamation against PA's attorney but because they were on AW the defamation had no impact at all on the attorney. There HAD to be a nominal damage award, though. If real defamation on AW has no impact on PA's attorney then it goes without saying that AW has no impact on PA.

The judge didn't agree with the jury either, Alice, in regards to the amount of their award. He did agree that the plaintiff was defamed.

Yeah, I think $53,000 is a lot of money especially just to insult someone.

I agree with S. AW's PA threads seem to serve only the purpose of making some PA authors feel badly about themselves. I fail to see the point in doing that.

Phil,

Glad you are back here.

Sometimes insecure folks like to put others down to make themselves feel better.

AW is almost a religion for some.

Alice wrote:

AW is almost a religion for some.

... and the believers convince themselves that they are doing a community service. The most recent post on the NEPAT claims that the existence of the thread is justified because it has had a noticeable effect on PA's business practices. Really?

PA is a business and, as such, makes changes that are economy driven and not because of a small group of insignificant, needy forum members who want to feel important (something they could do much more effectively if they became successful writers).

Well, Shelagh, the federal judge I wrote about above studied AW for a long time (three months) before giving his opinion and he said AW had no influence on anyone accessing AW.

I value his opinion over that of the AW poster's self-importance in believing they are somehow damaging a company.

As a result of having spent three months reading the AW board the judge rendered his decision and then went stark, raving mad. Or at least should have.

Wow.

Dick Stodghill wrote:

As a result of having spent three months reading the AW board the judge rendered his decision and then went stark, raving mad. Or at least should have.

Three months to decide that AW had no influence on anyone accessing the forum? What took him so long?

Quote :

Well, Shelagh, the federal judge I wrote about above studied AW for a long time (three months) before giving his opinion and he said AW had no influence on anyone accessing AW.

LOL Let me rephrase that. It took the judge three months to come to a decision on Dave's motion to set aside the jury verdict. A part of that decision came from research into what effect AW has on people accessing the site. He found that AW had no effect so Cretella could not have been damaged by the defaming posts. Without being damaged, Cretella, under the law, was entitled to nominal damages. The judge determined in his decision exactly what nominal damages were for Cretella for IV defamation counts re AW posts and I count re P&E. The $53,000 Dave was ordered to pay is the total of the nominal damages of V counts of defamation.

The judge stated that he believed the jury was misled during the trial into thinking that AW had some importance.

A legal secretary would have done the research saving the judge's sanity. They are expendable.

Phil wrote:

A legal secretary would have done the research saving the judge's sanity. They are expendable.

lovesamy wrote:

Wow.

I'll second that! We seem to have caused quite a stir on this thread:

"Most users ever online was 50 on Wed 26 Aug 2009 - 7:08"

The latest posts on the NEPAT confirm the judges ruling: the level of debate is reduced to mindless, childish, cool-aid banter. Oh, well, I suppose it keeps them off the streets and from attacking old ladies.

During my brief stay on the AW board I encountered some nice people. I also encountered a few raving maniacs. What bothered me most was being confined to a single topic. That soon became boring, but it seems that the raving maniacs find it stimulating.
I was directed to the mystery forum on AW. There the topics were somewhat varied but it soon became apparent that the majority of people posting knew nothing about writing mysteries and were indignant when given a few simple tips. They preferred doing it their way even though it meant that their work would be read by no one but themselves.
I found that merely calling up the AW board was depressing and quit. I have no interest in becoming part of a cult.

Dick,

It is depressing that so many would-be published authors are only prepared to write their way and then moan and groan about rejections, which they wear like a badge of honor, yet won't even consider POD as a way of seeing their work published. Then they have the gall to look down on those who do use POD publishing -- the talentless looking down on the talented.

On the bright side, the fact that they congregate together makes them easy to avoid!

Shelagh,
as Dick mention, "birds of a feather flock together."
That is also true of those on the upside of things. There are lots of winners on this board and they get positive support. They are doing things and not complaining of what might have been.

Shelagh wrote:

Dick,

It is depressing that so many would-be published authors are only prepared to write their way and then moan and groan about rejections, which they wear like a badge of honor, yet won't even consider POD as a way of seeing their work published. Then they have the gall to look down on those who do use POD publishing -- the talentless looking down on the talented.

That is all very true, Shelagh.

And Abe, very nice post as well.

I am puzzled by the 50 people who looked in here at 1:00 am central daylight time in the US.

Carol

Carol,

Probably a group of Crusaders sizing us up--maybe even a class of them.

This happened on the AS forum towards the end of it. Be on guard!