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 Hate, Hatred, and Haters

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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyFri Sep 05, 2014 10:32 am

Some years ago, I first read, somewhere, that the opposite of love is not hate; the opposite of love is fear.  And it is fear that breeds hate.

I cannot remember ever hating anyone.  I have felt anger - at my parents, my spouse, my friends, even my own children.  But when I express that anger, I can let it go.  I learned many years ago that if I cannot express anger directly (or choose to not), that i can write it all out in a journal entry, and once it is out there, I can release it.

For some people, including members of my own family; fear, anger, and even hate, manage to get release through scapegoating, especially when guilt is involved in the fear.  I have been scapegoated. For my mother and mt older brother, it was their primary way of warding off fear.   It is not fun, but, apparently, somewhere in my childhood, I decided that being scapegoated was better than being abandoned - which was my basic fear, I guess.  Even after I married, I accepted the behavior from my husband.  Had I not become a mother, I might have continued doing so.  But the love I felt for my children sort of eclipsed the old fears, and, for the most part, I started to reject the scapegoating, in spite of the fact that doing so increased the risk of abandonment.  I learned that I could survive being abandoned by becoming self-reliant.  I was able, first through my children, then through my students and co-workers, to open up to giving and receiving love, and, as Robert Frost has said, "That has made all the difference."

I choose not to hate, but I cannot help but see it, and/or feel it, when it comes in my direction.  I still have to deal with it, sometimes more effectively than other times.

I find it helps to express my anger when it is aroused.  Anger is a positive emotion, and a natural one.  Confronting the situation that arouses the anger generally leads to a release, and the ability to let go rather than hold a grudge.  Holding a grudge invariably leads to hating, and hating is giving in to fear, and is always destructive.  I still find myself confronting situations that distress me, mostly because I can sense the fear, and can feel the anger when I (or others) are being targeted, and that can lead to retaliation and affronting responses.  Staying open, sticking to the problem rather than getting personal, and expecting a certain amount of dissonance is helpful, as is a humor that laughs with, rather than at, the other. 

We seem to be in a world situation where hatred and fear are controlling too many responses to situations and circumstances.  People and groups are reacting out of fear - out of hatred of "the other" - that scapegoat, in whatever form, that appeases our own sense of responsibility.  Everyone's - every group's psyche contains a dark side, where unresolved fears, resentments, and therefore, guilts hold sway.  Rather than face our own dark feelings, we attempt to excuse them by projecting them onto an outsider - an enemy who needs to be defeated, and vanquished so that our fear will be resolved.  Only it doesn't work.  Joseph Campbell has said that when we slay our dragons, we slay ourselves.

When we can face the dragon and embrace it, we can begin to bring our shadow sides under control, and it is only then that we can conquer fear and begin to turn it into love.

As long as we hate, we will have wars.  The only way to change that is to practice love, and that has to begin with accepting and loving ourselves.  Only then can we learn to let go and forgive.

Just Annie, again, reflecting on recent stuff.

I am hurting less now, and as a result, typing more, and this is the place I come to, these days, in such circumstances.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyFri Sep 05, 2014 11:20 am

I see the hate posted daily on Facebook and feel compelled to respond with my stepmother's favorite quote that passing on a hot coal burns the hand first.  She did associate hate and love - that a hate-filled heart had no room for love and would be in constant pain.  She was the most loving person I have ever known - a person whose life gave her many reasons to hate and complain but she moved on and started over and looked for the beauty everywhere. 

She embarrassed me sometimes. The family too as she got older.  She would see someone looking glum and approach them and ask if she could hug them - nine times out of ten they would say, "okay" because she read the signals right.  It didn't matter if they were young or old, ragged or stately.  That stuff mattered not to her.

Once at church for valentines day they passed out those little red, plastic hearts in bunches and suggested we pass them out to everyone we met over the next few days and watch for the smiles.  I stuck mine in my pocket.  I wasn't going to invade anyone's privacy that way.  Not my step mom.  I was with her in the grocery and could hardly get to the end of the list.  Fortunately, when she ran out of hearts I still had mine in my pocket which she took.  Funny thing, I was the only one embarrassed.  Everyone took her little hearts with good humor, and yes, smiles.  She even got them to promise they'd pass the love.  Oh my!

She told the story of taking the train alone at quite an elderly age and it derailed outside of Chicago putting all the passengers on buses into the train station in the city and then finding them hotels until the next day.  A young woman looked terrified, and my step mom sort of took over (and she was no worldly person) and helped the young woman through all the vehicle changes and offered to share the hotel room as the young girl was terrified to be alone in Chicago.  When they went to the station the next day, my step mom's scarf caught in the escalator and she would have been choked and dragged but the young woman was there to stop the moving stairs and set her free.

My step mom always believed that you must give love because that's why we are on this earth.  She was certain it was her care for the young woman that saved her from the escalator.

I have felt the ugly finger of hate on rare occasions and as quickly it changed into anger and was often followed by depression.  My bouts of anger are most often for things I cannot control and that's why I turn anger inward where it saps my energy leading to melancholy thoughts.  Once I went to a therapy lesson where they gave us chairs and a baseball bat and said to beat our anger into the chair.  They had to take my bat away as I destroyed the chair and cracked the bat and was still going - so much was saved up.

I think that, too, is what happens to people today.  They store up their fears and anger until they are a tea kettle ready to whistle - and the whistle may be destructive behavior beyond the pale.  People who cannot provide for their families, people without hope or promise for a better future, people bogged down in illness and debt, people estranged from any loving being in their lives, and more need a way to release in positive ways and may need guidance for which our medical institutions are sadly lacking.  I always remember that insurance paid 80-90 percent for a broken leg but only 50% for a broken brain.
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyFri Sep 05, 2014 11:29 am

DK wrote:
I think that, too, is what happens to people today. They store up their fears and anger until they are a tea kettle ready to whistle - and the whistle may be destructive behavior beyond the pale. People who cannot provide for their families, people without hope or promise for a better future, people bogged down in illness and debt, people estranged from any loving being in their lives, and more need a way to release in positive ways and may need guidance for which our medical institutions are sadly lacking. I always remember that insurance paid 80-90 percent for a broken leg but only 50% for a broken brain.

Good point!
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyFri Sep 05, 2014 12:31 pm

9/4/2014

               My step-father taught me that the word " Hate," was an ugly powerful
               word, why he said this was because he was black and he saw what the
               word " Hate," meant, he always tried to love everyone, including my 
               Mother and us her children and he loved us like we were his own, to me
               he was a great man....To me I would say he was like Martin Luther King Jr.

                                                           Cheers..Joe...
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyFri Sep 05, 2014 12:54 pm

you were fortunate to have a father-figure who could help you to learn, not only about love, but about diversity as well.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyFri Sep 05, 2014 1:10 pm

I just watched "42" on HBO about Jackie Robinson.  Quite a film.  Pitiful that the same type of bigotry still runs rampant though less on the surface.  The transformation of his team members toward acceptance brought tears to my eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyFri Sep 05, 2014 1:11 pm

Ann, you need to write a philosophical book.  You quote so well from sources.  People need to think in new ways that you encourage.  Just a thought -
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyFri Sep 05, 2014 1:22 pm

Thank you, DK.  I will consider it.

It would probably be a tad eclectic, though.


Quote :
"There is no problem so big that it cannot be run away from." [Don Shimoda, "the reluctant messiah)]... "You're quoting Snoopy the dog, I believe?"[Richard, his disciple] "I'll quote the truth wherever i find it thank you." [Don]
Richard Bach "Illusions:  The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah"
 Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyFri Sep 05, 2014 9:01 pm

dkchristi wrote:
Ann, you need to write a philosophical book.  You quote so well from sources.  People need to think in new ways that you encourage.  Just a thought -


I AGREE.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySat Sep 06, 2014 7:12 am

Is it my imagination or does it seem that many of the people who post to Facebook are those who look for venom and repost it?  I think Facebook and social networking contribute to the troubled mind that finds the posts to support a broken perspective and that perspective becomes more entrenched.
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySat Sep 06, 2014 7:45 am

Social networking seems to give such people a voice.  It's safer than actually facing someone.  (Maybe that's why they call it Facebook Very Happy ) The bullies risk a lot less. And you're right, the hatred becomes more entrenched because there is a sense of satisfaction - of having won because you can't strike back.

The same is true for the comments section to blogs and news articles.  Facebook is mild by comparison.  Many of those comments are made with user names, which gives a level of anonymity and protection. But it doesn't really help the fear that brought the whole thing on, so it has to be repeated.
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySat Sep 06, 2014 8:29 am

When I was younger, I like most wanted to make change. It was easy to see things in the world were not right. Not only in other countries, but also in my country. In my state, in my town.  Most writers think about people, and what makes them tick, why some are good, and others bad. People have ideas, written books, and given speeches on how to make things better. There are over 5,000,000 laws in America. Many of these are laws to make things better between peoples…they don’t seem to have worked. You can pass laws that govern how people must act, but you can’t make peoples act within these laws. You can’t make peoples think the way you want. If you could, we would not keep having things get worse. I did a search when writing the Second Monkey Trial. The time of the story is now. My main character is black. He is a good man, but carries within him the history of the American slave.
One of the questions I wondered about, “How could good men have slaves?”
The men who wrote the constitution were Christian men. They went to church on Sunday, and lived their lives by the Bible. They believed our constitution had to be in accord with the Bible…so how could these good men have slaves? They made one section of the constitution very clear, “All men are created equal.”  Created is from the first book of the Bible, Genesis. God created Adam, and Eve.  I read over, and over…”All men are created equal.” what was I missing? Good Christian men understood, “All men are created equal.” How could they have slaves and stand before their God? Over, and over I read…”All men are created equal.”  It was years before I understood how they were thinking. They did not write, “All men are equal.” They wrote,  “All men are created equal.”  In the beginning (genesis) all men were created equal. Over time, some were no longer equal…the black man. My question at that point was, “Why, what had changed?”
The fathers of this country not only carried their Bibles, they read, and studied them.
Here is what I found…here is how their thinking went:

After the Great Flood, there was Noah, his wife. His three sons, and their wives.
One on Noah’s sons, Ham who was of the dark skin, and saw his fathers (Noah) nakedness. (Genesis 9:22.) For this act, Noah put a curse on Ham son,  Canaan, and all of his decedents.
The answer to this is in Leviticus 18: 6-17.  Ham had sex with Noah’s wife…his own mother. For this act, Ham, and all his decedents were cursed…they were no longer  equal. This is how the Christian Fathers who wrote the constitution believed, and how other Christians of the time believed. It was also believe that Abraham Lincoln was going against the bible.
Those who owned slaves were not bad men. They believed they were following Gods word.  The same held true for the Jews who had slaves.

As a writer I take no side in the laws of any country. As a Christian, I obey all the laws of a country I am in, unless they go against Gods Laws. There is not justification for slavery. Nor do I judge those who believed wrong.
Many black peoples hate the white race for this past slavery. They need to learn the truth…the slave holders were not the bad guy, it was those who did not teach Gods written word with truth.
I believe it is a writers duty to dig very deep before they write what they believe...because what they write may be wrong.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySat Sep 06, 2014 9:37 am

Most of the people I know hate people who are "different" because they fear differences, fear the unknown, fear loss and deprivation and need a scapegoat.  Slavery played into the conflict mindset between races; however, it was those whose families suffered the demeaning nature of destroying a human beings spirit that carry the anger not those who descended from slave trading or the use of slaves.

Recently, a farm was indicted near me for enslaving Mexican workers.  A year or so ago, a motel behind a local restaurant was raided for enslaving young Mexican girls into the sex trade. Today. The mentality that allows one human being to enslave another today is one of greed, avarice and lack of respect for  the common bond of humanity, the red blood that runs through all our veins and saves a life without asking who it came from or for whom it will be the gift of life.

I live today.  I live by attempting to show the same acceptance and respect to others that I expect in return.  I make mistakes.  I have my own petty views about things that are emotional and irrational.  I challenge myself, however, to overcome those things and be a better person.

I find history a great lesson from which we can learn, but life is in the present where the ever-changing world stage requires a flexible mind with the capacity to innovate, create and provide leadership in the complex issues of change. That leadership needs to start with the core premise that we are separate from the animals by our ability to reason through complexity and create new solutions.  We are separate because many of us across the world seek a spiritual side to our lives that includes compassion, love, understanding and acceptance.  That's where we need to start and leave the past behind except for its value in seeking solutions to new issues or lingering ones.
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySat Sep 06, 2014 9:46 am

It was said, "He who forgets the past condemns the future." There is more to what is going on in this world than man can reason. Jesus spoke of two seed, "The wheat, and the Tares." Nothing man can do will change the Tares. Those who put the Bible aside, and do not learn from it...so be it.

Matthew 13:36-43
36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySat Sep 06, 2014 10:36 am


dkchristie wrote:

I find history a great lesson from which we can learn, but life is in the present where the ever-changing world stage requires a flexible mind with the capacity to innovate, create and provide leadership in the complex issues of change. That leadership needs to start with the core premise that we are separate from the animals by our ability to reason through complexity and create new solutions.  We are separate because many of us across the world seek a spiritual side to our lives that includes compassion, love, understanding and acceptance.  That's where we need to start and leave the past behind except for its value in seeking solutions to new issues or lingering ones.

DK, I agree with what you have said.

You mentioned my philosophy earlier.  As I responded, it's a bit eclectic.  At its base, though, is the concept of mythology.  That is a troublesome word for some people.  As Domenic and others have written recently, words have different meanings for different people.  One person's definition can be quite different from another's, based - as you have often pointed out - on experience.

My definiion of myth is that it tells the stories of a group or culture.  Those stories include history, poetry and songs, and, yes, fictional stories: love, adventure, comedy and tragedy.  In that sense, earlier civilizations were not so different from us: they loved hearing stories. Storytellers were the chroniclers of the time, then as now.

As readers and writers today, we get that fiction can often contain a greater Truth (note capital "T") than history, which is often skewed, anyway, by the victors, to support their particular perspective.

It has only been in relatively recent times that those stories have been taken as literal fact.  And much, if not all, of the reasons had to do with power and control - those victors claiming the right of authority over the masses.  And it worked for a time.  The controlling powers were able to instill a great degree of fear into the minds of the people.  Even today, when we are faced with the undeniable conflicts, contradictions, and discrepancies, the need for reassurance is so great that we decide that if we can only find the correct interpretation......

Fear increases, and with it the need to possess the right Answers, and with it, the need to put down and destroy those who see things differently.  So fear grows into hatred, and the eruption of wars.  God, we believe, will support us and we will overcome and silence the heretics.

But the heresy is inside our own heads.

An excellent source for looking into the present day dilemma is Rollo May's The Cry for Myth.

At any rate, myths and mythical stories come from the minds and hearts of a culture's storytellers.  The stories become the identity of that particular people.  They were never, to my thinking, intended to be read as literal fact.  Diana Gabaldon's Outlander series (episode 5 airs tonight.  I can hardly wait) is an example of such mythical tales, involving real history with time travel, delightfully believable fictional characters, romance, sex, and adventure.  Watching it, or reading the books it was based on, can give us a better sense of the last 200-300 years of western culture.

When we literalize the myth, we lose its essence.  Without that essence, we are adrift in a sea of change, not knowing what is right or wrong, and havin no valid basis for choosing.

That, to me, is the root of our current problems, and of the hatred that grows out of our fears.

BTW - you are one of several members here who should publish their philosophies, which you often do in your articles.

Me being me.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySat Sep 06, 2014 11:03 am

Religions have made Bible truth into lies, because religions are not from God. There is not one religion that does not lie about what the Bible says. Creation is a thing that can be proven without the Bible.
It is true religions control people for money. The Governments are taking this control over with fear. The more the governments can make it's people fear attack, the more freedom people will give up. If the governments had their way, there would be only about four million people on earth to serve them.
If the people removed the governments, they would be replaced with people who would be just as bad.
Man can't solve the problems we face. God says he is the only one who can, and will.
One day all the people alive, and who have ever lived will come to know this...for most it will be to late. Man can not rule man. What more than our past to present to make people understand that? There is a powerful force controlling this world, and it is not good. We can't change it. All people can do is control one self...nothing more.

And no, I do not expect others to believe as I do...let the future prove what is true.
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySat Sep 06, 2014 4:40 pm

The will to survive - I forgot to mention that one.  Survival is a force we have in common with the animal and plant world.  Survival is also open to interpretation and moral assignment.  In the animal kingdom it's survival of the fittest.  In the human kingdom it was often survival of the strongest (through war and enslavement).  Nations continue to beat their chests through war and threats of war to gain power when money is not sufficient. 

Humankind has evolved and changed throughout the ages and will continue on that path unless some catastrophe makes it not possible.  The stories and "myths" of each evolutionary generation changes in steps.  Laggards always cling to the past guides, unable to make the changes in thinking, feeling and behavior that are required for the new survival.

I may be a dinosaur.  It could be the past opportunities for collaboration and cooperation are no longer in vogue.  The new survival is global wealth - those with the most control everyone else's future through possession of needed resources by whatever means are at their disposal - including war and destruction.  Perhaps its like the gravity movie I saw where there were two worlds of opposite gravities, one wealthy and reaping that wealth from the impoverished world that gave it up.

Maybe we are headed for that two class world, one class in control of the wealth and resources and the other a beggar and worker class providing the raw materials that feed the wealth.  Maybe that is our destiny and not equality at all.

The U.S. had its opportunity to set an example and lead, but greed and avarice and the rush for global wealth have risen above and thoughts of a true democracy where everyone has the opportunity for equality.
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySat Sep 06, 2014 5:03 pm

You could be right.  No one has the answer right now. The old ones no longer work and the new ones are yet to be found.

I think that will to survive will win out, though.  Just me.  I think humanity is designed that way.  Richard Bach once wrote, "Problems are for solving; obstacles are for overcoming...as long as we believe in our dreams, nothing [happens] by chance."  (closing lines from Nothing by Chance)

I think the human spirit will rise to the challenge.  I also think that we can help by believing in a future - a next step in our evolution.  Domenic wrote about slavery.  We overcame that one, in this country anyway.  I choose to believe we can overcome this rush by the super rich to hoard even more.

I kind of want to stick around and see.  Hope I get to do that.

As for right now, it's time for Outlander, with some chips and a glass of cab. drunken

Everybody have a good evening
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySat Sep 06, 2014 11:17 pm

I once read that: "We become enslaved to the person we hate."  When I read this I was in the thros of hating a person that was taking credit for things I did and it was driving me nuts.  I was so consumed with hate for this person that it dominated my thoughts and affected everything I did.  I was a slave to this hate.  When I realized what was happening, I worked on letting it go.  It is easier said than done, but I managed to do it over a period of time by concentrating on the positive things that were happening and let them dominate my thoughts.  It took several years for me to look back, examine the cause of the hate and set up "alert signals" to prevent my falling back into that hate syndrome. 
I do believe, as Ann pointed out, that venting is needed.  Sometimes one needs to go with the bad feelings and let them run their course.  Feeling bad makes feeling good so much better.  A good cry can be helpful.  Since men don't cry, at least where anyone can see them, it is done in private.  The downside is delaying the emotional response.  I admit to shedding tears and trying to hide them.  It has occured hearing my daughter singing: "Amazing Grace".  Other songs have triggered a tear after hearing a song that reminded me of something special in the past.  Shedding tears at a funeral is not the same thing.  Emotional release is needed at times.  To deny those tears can make matters worse.  JMO
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySun Sep 07, 2014 5:26 am

My dad cried when he read my poetry, when I told him I was getting married, once when my mother and his mother argued.  He didn't cry when he learned he had leukemia.  He just sat quietly at the table and went through all the little keepsakes he kept in his wallet, until I made a silly little comment about some thing or the other and he laughed.

Emotions are healthy, and expressing them even more so.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptySun Sep 07, 2014 8:34 am

Concerning past, present and future.  Who really knows?  It is guesswork.  We can make predictions based on historical and current events.  Some make predictions based on ancient Biblical Texts.  We can make educated guesses about our planet based on science.  We know that pollution is harming our planet and that is not guesswork.   We know that we will all die at some point.  How or when is not known.  What happens to us after the physical body dies is part of a belief process as well as science.   I’m referencing the energy that leaves the body.  If we believe science, we are told that energy never dies.  What happens to the energy when it leaves the body is cause for more speculation. 
Just Sayin…
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyMon Sep 08, 2014 9:02 am

I don't know who first said theis, but Ilike it:

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience."
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyMon Sep 08, 2014 9:35 am

I like it too.
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyMon Sep 08, 2014 9:39 am

This is a longish excerpt, but for us to get the whole point, its difficult to edit or cut:
Quote :
Excerpt #2 - Life is a Movie:

We Finished the day in Hammond, Wisconsin, flying a few Monday passengers, then we walked to town for dinner, and started back.
"Don I will grant you that this life can be interesting or dull or whatever we choose to make it. But even in my brilliant times I have never been able to figure out why we're here in the first place. Tell me something about that.
We passed the hardware store (closed) and the movie theater (open: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid), and in stead of answering he stopped turned back on the sidewalk.
"You have money, don't you?"
"Lots. What's the matter?"
"Let's see the show," he said. "You buy ?"
"I don't know, Don. You go ahead. I'll get back to the airplanes. Don't like to leave 'em alone too long." What was suddenly so important about a motion picture?
"The planes are OK. Let's go to the show."
"It's already started."
"So we come in late."
He was already buying his ticket. I followed him into the dark and we sat down near the back of the theater. There might have been fifty people around us in the gloom.
I forgot why we came, after a while, and got caught up in the story, which I've always thought is a classic movie, anyway; this would be my third time seeing Sundance. The time in the theater spiraled and stretched the way it does in a good film, and I watched awhile for technical reasons. . . how each scene was designed and fit to the next, why this scene now and not later on. I tried to look at it that way but got spun up in the story and forgot.
About the part where Butch and Sundance are surrounded by the entire Bolivian army, almost at the end, Shimoda touched my shoulder. I leaned toward him, watching the movie, wishing he could have kept whatever he was going to say till after it was over.
"Richard ?"
"Yeah."
"Why are you here?"
"It's a good movie, Don. Sh" Butch and Sundance, blood all over them, were talking about why they ought to go Australia. Why is it good?" he said.
"Why is it good?" he said.
"It's fun. Sh. I'll tell you later." 
"Snap out of it. Wake up. It's all illusions"
I was irked. "Donald, there's just a few minutes more and then we can talk all you want. But let me watch the movie, OK?"
He whispered intensely, dramatically. "Richard why are you here?"
"Look, I'm here because you asked me to come in here!" I turned back and tried to watch the end.
"You didn't have to come, you could have said no thank you." 
"I LIKE THE MOVIE . . ." A man in front turned to look at me for a second. "I like the movie, Don; is there anything wrong with that?"
"Nothing at all," he said, and he didn't say another word till it was over and we were walking again past the used-tractor lot and out into the dark toward the field and the airplanes. It would be raining, before long.
I thought about his odd behavior in the theater. "You do everything for a reason, Don?"
"Sometimes."
"Why the movie? Why did you all of a sudden want to see Sundance ?"
"You asked a question. "
"Yes. Do you have an answer?"
"That is my answer. We went to the movie because you asked a question. The movie was the answer to your question."

He was laughing at me, I knew it.
"What was my question ?"
There was a long pained silence. "Your question, Richard, was that even in your brilliant times you have never been able to figure out why we are here."
I remembered. "And the movie was my answer. "
"Yes "
"Oh "
"You don't understand," he said.
"No "
"That was a good movie," he said, "but the world's best movie is still an illusion, is it not? The pictures' aren't even moving; they only appear to move. Changing light that seems to move across a flat screen set up in the dark?"
"Well, yes." I was beginning to understand.
"The other people, any people anywhere who go to any movie show, why are they there, when it is only illusions?"
"Well, it's entertainment," I said.
"Fun. That's right. One."
"Could be educational."
"Good. It is always that. Learning Two."
"Fantasy, escape."
"That's fun, too. One. "
"Technical reasons. To see how a film is made."
"Learning. Two. "
"Escape from boredom . . ."
"Escape. You said that."
"Social. To be with friends," I said.
"Reason for going, but not for seeing the film. That's fun, anyway. One."
Whatever I came up with fit his two fingers; people see films for fun or for learning or for both together.
"And a movie is like a lifetime, Don, is that right?"
Quote :
"Yes."
Then why would anybody choose a bad lifetime, a horror movie ?"
"They not only come to the horror movie for fun, they know it is going to be a horror movie when they walk in," he said.
"But why ? . . ."
"Do you like horror films  ?"
Quote :
"No."
"Do you ever see them ?"
"No."
"But some people spend a lot of money and time to see horror or soap-opera problems that to other people are dull and boring? . ." He left the question for me to answer.
"Yes."
"You don't have to see their films and they don't have to see yours. That is called 'freedom.' "
"But why would anybody want to be horrified ? Or bored ?"
"Because they think they deserve it for horrifying somebody else, or they like the excitement of horrification or that boring is the way they think films have to be. Can you believe that lots of people for reasons that are very sound to them enjoy believing that they are helpless in their own films? No you can't."
"No, I can't," I said.
"Until you understand that, you will wonder why some people are unhappy. They are unhappy because they have chosen to be unhappy, and, Richard, that is all right!"
"Hm."
"We are game-playing, fun-having creatures, we are the otters of the universe. We cannot die, we cannot hurt ourselves any more than illusions on the screen can be hurt. But we can believe we're hurt, in whatever agonizing detail we want. We can believe we're victims, killed and killing, shuddered around by good luck and bad luck."
"Many lifetimes?" I asked.
"How many movies have you seen?"

"Oh "
"Films about living on this planet, about living on other planets; anything that's got space and time is all movie and all illusion," he said. "But for a while we can learn a huge amount and have a lot of fun with our illusions, can we not?"
"How far do you take this movie thing, Don?"
"How far do you want ? You saw the film tonight partly because I wanted to see it. Lots of people choose lifetimes because they enjoy doing things together. The actors in the film tonight have played together in other films before or after depends on which film you've seen first' or you can see them at the same time on different screens. We buy tickets to these films, paying admission by agreeing to believe in the reality of space and the reality of time. . . Neither one is true, but anyone who doesn't want to pay that price cannot appear on this planet, or in any space-time system at all."
"Are there some people who don't have any lifetimes at all in space-time ?"
"Are there some people who never go movies ?"
"I see. They get their learning in different ways ?"
"Right you are," he said, pleased with me. "Space-time is a fairly primitive school. But a lot of people stay with the illusion even if it is boring, and they don't want the lights turned on early."
"Who writes these movies, Don ?"
"Isn't it strange how much we know if only we ask ourselves instead of somebody else? Who writes these movies, Richard ?"
"We do," I said.
"Who acts ?"
"Us "
"Who's the cameraman, the projectionist, the theater manager, the ticket-taker, the distributor, and who watches them all happen? Who is free to walk out in the middle, any time, change the plot whenever, who is free to see the same film over and over again?"
"Let me guess," I said. "Anybody who wants to?"
"Is that enough freedom for you ?" he said.
"And is that why movies are so popular? That we instinctively know they are a parallel of our own lifetimes?"
"Maybe so... maybe not. Doesn't matter much, does it? What's the projector?"
"Mind," I said. "No. Imagination. It's our imagination, no matter what you say."
"What's the film?" he asked.
"Got me."
"Whatever we give our consent to put into our imagination?"
"Maybe so, Don."
"You can hold a reel of film in your hands," he said, "and it's all finished and complete - beginning, middle, end are all there that same second, the same millionths of a second. The film exists beyond the time that it records, and if you know what the movie is, you know generally what's going to happen before you walk into the theater: there's going to be battles and excitement, winners and losers, romance, disaster; you know that's all going to be there. But in order to get caught up and swept away in it, in order to enjoy it to its most, you have to put it in a projector and let it go through the lens minute by minute.. . any illusion requires space and time to be experienced. So you pay your nickel and you get your ticket and you settle down an forget what's going on outside the theater an the movie begins for you."
"And nobody's really hurt? That's just tomato-sauce blood?"
"No, it's blood all right," he said. "But it might as well be tomato sauce for the effect it has on our real life . . ."
"And reality?"
"Reality is divinely indifferent, Richard. A mother doesn't care what part her child plays in his games; one day bad-guy, next day good-guy. The Is doesn't even know about our illusions and games. It only knows Itself, and us in its likeness, perfect and finished."
"I'm not sure I want to be perfect and finished. Talk about boredom."
"Look at the sky," he said, and it was such a quick subject-change that I looked at the sky. There was some broken cirrus, way up high, the first bit of moonlight silvering the edges.
"Pretty sky," I said.
"It is a perfect sky?"
"Well, it's always a perfect sky, Don."
"Are you telling me that even though it's changing every second, the sky is always a perfect sky?"
"Gee, I'm smart. Yes ?"
"And the sea is always a perfect sea, and it's always changing, too," he said "If perfection is stagnation, then heaven is a swamp! And the Is ain't hardly no swamp-cookie."
"Isn't hardly no swamp-cookie," I corrected, absently. "Perfect, and all the time changing. Yeah. I'll buy that."
"You bought it a long time ago, if you insist on time. "
I turned to him as we walked. "Doesn't it get boring for you, Don, staying on just this one dimension ?"
"Oh. Am I staying on just this one dimension ?" he said. "Are you ?"
"Why is it that everything I say is wrong?"
"Is everything you say wrong ?" he said.
"I think I'm in the wrong business."
"You think maybe real estate?" he said.
"Real estate or insurance. "
"There's a future in real estate, if you want one. "
"OK, I'm sorry " I said "I don't want a future. Or a past. I'd just as soon become a nice old Master of the World of Illusion. Looks like maybe in another week ?"
"Well, Richard, I hope not that long!" I looked at him carefully, but he wasn't smiling.
Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah; Richard Bach
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Hate, Hatred, and Haters   Hate, Hatred, and Haters EmptyWed Sep 10, 2014 9:20 am

Quote :
SEPTEMBER 9:
The Courage to Answer the Call
You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face…. You must do the thing you cannot do. —E LEANOR ROOSEVELT

I have come to the realization that feeling afraid is Spirit’s signal to ask for grace and Power. So take a deep breath, seek your quiet center, and push on. One of the hardest lessons we ever have to master is accepting that all fear comes from within however major are the real life’s circumstances assaulting us. The closer we get to giving our dream to the world, the fiercer the struggle becomes to bring it forth. Why should this be so? Because we will be inexorably changed, and life can never return to the way it once was. Of course we’re scared; we wouldn’t be sane if we weren’t.

Breathnach, Sarah Ban (2008-08-01). Simple Abundance: A Daybook of Comfort of Joy (p. 339). Grand Central Publishing. Kindle Edition.

Re-read this yesterday.  It seemed relevant to discussions and circumstances we are discussing (and some we seem to be avoiding and/or distracting away from - out of fear?)
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