This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.

OK, thank you.

You are reading English translations. A translation is just that. It is the translators' perception of what the original writer intended. As I have ponted out in earlier posts on this thread, it is not possible to translate words or passages from one language to another without making decisions about what was meant by the original writer.

Believe what you choose.

alj wrote:

OK, thank you.

You are reading English translations.  A translation is just that.  It is the translators' perception of what the original writer intended.  As I have ponted out in earlier posts on this thread, it is not possible to translate words or passages from one language to another without making decisions about what was meant by the original writer.  

Believe what you choose.

 
You are transparent. I will tell you something you can take to the bank. If you were ten times smarter then anybody on earth, unless God has chosen you, you will not understand the scriptures…he says he BLINDS THE EYE OF THE UNBELIEVER.

You are a very small minded person. Go your own way…the key word here is GO.

Don’t you just love Religious and Political subjects?  These subjects bring out the best and worst in people. 
In the last exchange, the word “GO” was used.  Is not that similar to: “Love it or Leave it”?
We hear that expression used when there is opposition to American policy.  Some do leave and are smart enough not to announce the reasons that caused their decision.  Having someone tell them to GO is a good bet that they won’t.  As for religion, we hear about the Love of God.  We read about Forgiveness and Turning the Other Cheek.  Those words are used when convenient and ignored when expedient.  When anyone is convinced that they are right in their beliefs, they are not ready or willing to change even when presented with arguments to the contrary.  The expression of having an “Open Mind” can be interpreted to mean:  “My Mind is made up, don’t confuse me with the facts.”  The Mind is closed to any argument that does not agree with one’s chosen belief.    I find this also to be true when discussing the Middle East if it puts Israel in a bad light.  Even when presented with facts, people will find justification for their beliefs.  Wanting to be right in what one believes can cause blindness.  Glasses will not help the blind.   
So why do we continue to argue/debate issues when we know it will lead nowhere?  Is it hoped that if some light is shed on the subject that someone may see the light?
 
Written in the dust on the back of a bus:  “It’s hard to make a comeback when you haven’t been anywhere”.

Interesting post, Abe

For starters, that word GO.  As I've pointed out, words are merely signs.  They have no intrinsic meaning.  There must be a receiver to interpret the sign, based on their individual perspective.  This is particularly true, i think, with imperative words.  If the sender is not perceived by the receiver to have the imperial power to issue that command, it means nothing.  

Having open discussions can lead to greater understanding and tolerance when the comments remain focused on the issues rather than on the people expressing their perspectives.   No problem in addressing a participant directly, or asking questions to clarify the propositions, but issuing personal judgments on them doesn't help.  It tends, to my thinking, to happen when the one issuing them has run out of reasonable points to add to the discussion.

Glad you ended your post using the word "we."  There are areas where we all can get our buttons pushed, when we allow it, and these seem to be contentious times, not only in the world at large, but even in our own chatter box.  There are discussions going on there that I am following with interest.  The topic is important to me personally, but since I know next to nothing about promotion and marketing, I have nothing of value to contribute.  I read the posts carefully, though, because they contain valuable information for me personally as a self-published writer.  I want to know how to market and promote my products, as they are my current business.

Here I feel that I am on stronger ground since religious history, the influence of the Biblical messages on literature and culture, and the study of linguistics are all a part of my field.

As far as complicating a religious discussion even further by throwing politics into it, I suppose that since those politics are bound up in religious conflicts, it could be considered acceptable.  I would only say that it is another case of extremists on both sides being unwilling to make any concessions or move toward the center for the good of the whole.  Lots of anger and fear going on in those extremes.  Those concepts you mentioned re love, compassion, and forgiveness just don't equate with such polarization.

Peace, everyone.

At every turn to try to detached the Bible from truth, yet you have given zero proof of your beliefs. You are just trying to make yourself look like something you have never been. Your challenge of God will not go unanswered by him.

Step outside the box the world has put you in and look at yourself and your beliefs, and discover who you are as a person, and where you really want to go. Because there is more to life than just having sex, getting married, working, buying a house, a new car, raising kids, retiring, riding in the back of a bus trying to reinforce your theories on life, and kicking the bucket. It’s time to wake up, and start to care about what’s going on in the world and step outside our own little theories, because life is to sort and to precious to waste one single moment. Before we know it we are dead, and that is when we have to deal with what is, and is not true.
Jesus did not speak to people to convert them, he spoke giving them an opportunity to believe in him, or reject him. Life is short.
Psalms 90:10 "In themselves the days of our years are seventy years, and if because of special mightiness they are eighty years."

I see no proofs anywhere in this discussion.  Only one book is being evaluated by sources that may and may not be proofs.  Most of that book is hearsay and would not be admissible in a court of law.  Much of it is poetry and stories for making points mixed with history and myth.

It is good to present the differing views - and there are many - but I must say that no God of any belief I am accepting would condemn a person for seeking truth - even if it's a different truth than a person who proclaims they are the only person with the real understanding and therefore the path to eternity.

A God who created this universe is a god of love, not hate; of reconciliation not condemnation.  The universe is unfinished and unfolding, ever revealing more of the power of this force, this energy for good.

When we are unkind, damning, condemning, judgmental, hateful, etc. we are a reflection of our own ego not the Creator.

I do not believe the Creator of the Universe would give humans one path to follow and then allow the world to unfold with such diversity outside that path.  Every human being on this earth is part of the god energy that created us and capable of finding their own path to eternity.  It will not be the same as mine except by accident of birth and location.

dkchristi wrote:

I do not believe the Creator of the Universe would give humans one path to follow and then allow the world to unfold with such diversity outside that path.  Every human being on this earth is part of the god energy that created us and capable of finding their own path to eternity.  It will not be the same as mine except by accident of birth and location.

 

What Ann said.

dkchristi wrote:

I see no proofs anywhere in this discussion.  Only one book is being evaluated by sources that may and may not be proofs.  Most of that book is hearsay and would not be admissible in a court of law.  Much of it is poetry and stories for making points mixed with history and myth.

It is good to present the differing views - and there are many - but I must say that no God of any belief I am accepting would condemn a person for seeking truth - even if it's a different truth than a person who proclaims they are the only person with the real understanding and therefore the path to eternity.

A God who created this universe is a god of love, not hate; of reconciliation not condemnation.  The universe is unfinished and unfolding, ever revealing more of the power of this force, this energy for good.

When we are unkind, damning, condemning, judgmental, hateful, etc. we are a reflection of our own ego not the Creator.

Lets say your theory is correct; It is a fact there was a world flood. God claims to have taken the credit for that...almost every living thing on earth was killed.
True he is a God of love...does he love those who reject him, and do not want his laws? Here is what he say about himself;
I Samuel 2:6 "Jehovah is a Killer, and a Preserver of life."
He created humans to serve him. Do you believe he will keep those alive who will not do that?
Jesus said the is only one way to God. Put your path to the test...it's your life.

Dom, many of your references are from the Old Testament.  The Gods of Hate/revenge can be found there.  If one references the Old Testament and all of the Taboos listed therein (I made a post about some of them that include divorce and working on Sunday, etc. that requires a death sentence), we are then directed to the New Testament.  If you are a Christian, you follow the New Testament where one finds the God of Love and forgiveness. 
As a child of God, would you accept that your parent would condem you to death if you disobeyed?  Do you not believe that your parent would forgive you? 
If you truly believe that the God you serve is as you mentioned, then I pity you.  You must be living in fear.  If you are promoting such a God,  I don't even want to wish you Good Luck.  I pity anyone who would follow let alone worship such a God.

Abe F. March wrote:

Dom, many of your references are from the Old Testament.  The Gods of Hate/revenge can be found there.  If one references the Old Testament and all of the Taboos listed therein (I made a post about some of them that include divorce and working on Sunday, etc. that requires a death sentence), we are then directed to the New Testament.  If you are a Christian, you follow the New Testament where one finds the God of Love and forgiveness. 
As a child of God, would you accept that your parent would condem you to death if you disobeyed?  Do you not believe that your parent would forgive you? 
If you truly believe that the God you serve is as you mentioned, then I pity you.  You must be living in fear.  If you are promoting such a God,  I don't even want to wish you Good Luck.  I pity anyone who would follow let alone worship such a God.

Jesus made reference to the old testament. I have no fear of a God I love. If you believe the New testament shows only a God of love, you should read ( the new testament) revelation.
Here you will see God will again destroy most of the human family. God says he will lift his people off the earth, and destroy every living thing on earth by fire. I do not know your heart condition, only God knows that...one thing is for certain, all who have posted on this thread have exposed their heart condition to God.
You said, "I pity anyone who would follow let alone worship such a God." That is a bold statement.

Yes, it is a bold statement and I stick by it.  The Spirit, Energy of the higher power (God) that I serve is not to be feared, nor is truth.

Abe F. March wrote:

Yes, it is a bold statement and I stick by it.  The Spirit, Energy of the higher power (God) that I serve is not to be feared, nor is truth.

Are you saying you believe God will not destroy this earth, and all living things on it? Are you saying you think he is going to let all people live, and he is going to forgive all of them because he is a God of love, and would never harm anybody? Is that what you are boldly saying?

Thanks, Abe.  The more you tell us about Giselle, the more I wish I could meet her and visit with her.

From my own personal experience, I feel that the problem is not so much whether or not we take a conservative or progressive view, but how well we utilize what we believe.

The parish here, where I attended services up until a few years ago, had a lot of workshops that involved intense Biblical study.  The format was generally conservative, but our rector taught us a method that we used frequently, both in groups and individually.  it is a well-established vehicle known as Lectio Divina. It consists of four steps: read, meditate, pray, contemplate.  He taught us a question to ask during each stage:

Read:  What is the general meaning of this passage?
Meditate:  How does this passsage relate to me?
Pray:  What is God saying to me about this passage?
Contemplate:  How does this passage relate to the world of today?


Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the Lectio Divina:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectio_Divina

Yes Ann, I think you would hit it off splendedly.  At the moment she is in the hospital and today I took her more books to read.  Those books she had read before and she says that when she re-reads them, she sees/learns things that were overlooked on the first read. (They are historical books having to do with biblical history)
Gisela is not a religious person.  The more she learned, the less religious she became.  Her knowledge sustains her. 
As a child going to church religiously, I heard the Preacher say that young people who go to college are turned against the church and he advised the congregation to keep them from college.  Later I realized that he wanted to keep the flock ignorant so that they would believe what they were taught.  It seemed to me that to question their belief was sinful.  Then they wanted to send me to Bible school.  Instead I joined the USAF.  Each Sunday, I attended a different faith/denomination.  I wanted to know why they were wrong and our church was right.  I found to my amazement that they were all the same, just that the formality of the church differed.  Interpretation of scripture was the main difference.  I wanted answers.  I asked questions and the more questions I asked, the more questions I had.  Answers were vague.  I was quoted scripture.  Then came the question as to who wrote the scriptures.  I didn't get answers to my questions since those who tried giving me answers didn't know themselves.  It took many years to understand why.  I'm still searching for truth, but am no longer gullible.  What I now believe is what I feel is right - at least for me.  I am content in my belief and have no fear about God or death.  My OBE was a key factor in the way I feel today.

I think I've posted to the wrong thread again.  So much is parallel on this R&S forum these days.  I was referring, as you aparently realized, to the Noah thread.  Not that it matters so much in the long run.

I lose track of threads too. 

We sing a song at church, "Every thought is a prayer."  I don't need to profess anything.  I feel the majesty of the Creator in the magnificence of each day and know my thoughts are part of the energy that is part of the whole - a tapestry so fine in the making that I have no idea of its outcome.  All of my existence in thought and deed is known; it is only for my own comfort in relating to a human need to "connect" that I outright pray or quietly meditate.

The people of history had their way of explaining things based on their knowledge at the time - from the mythology of the Greeks and Romans to the writings in the Bible.  The world was very small then without the benefit of science that lets us explain things today in different ways.  The Asian countries were explaining their ideas about life in similar yet different ways, equally as valid. 

In a small hidden village in the jungle where a tribe of people have no contact with the outside world, a flood that destroys their village would appear to destroy their world.  A fire that destroys their forest would appear to destroy their world.  If a few people lived, they would wonder why such a thing happened and create something from their human experience by way of explanation.

Part of the majesty of our Creator is that the universe expands and contracts and is changing at the cellular level (living and non-living) at all times.  Nothing is static.  Islands are born in the oceans while others sink.  Rivers change their course.  Fires change the vegetation from one type to another.  Animals evolve.  People evolve.

A lot of the writings at the time of the Bible were meant to be laws that provided control of various tribes.  Some of the laws were to prevent sickness.  Some were to control behavior.  The laws were written for the lifestyle of the times.  Actually, they did quite well in the writing because there is enough ambiguity in many cases for those laws to adapt to new times - such as the addition of the New Testament.

I have no idea what is real, what is imagined, what is in other dimensions of time and space since time itself is a creation of man.  I only know that I awake to possibilities that I either claim or let go by and go to sleep without fear.  I am fortunate that those luxuries are available to me by the accident of my birth.  I feel a sense of the majesty of the creations in the universe - the power of the force behind them - and know that I am some small piece of it all not really in control of much more than the energy around me.  I feel no certainties about much of anything, but I know I am where I should be as my life unfolds.

Well said. DK

DK,
I love you.   You speak my speak. 
Love,
Betty

Nite all.  Rest well.  Tomorrow is a fresh new day of miracles.

dkchristi wrote:

I do not believe the Creator of the Universe would give humans one path to follow and then allow the world to unfold with such diversity outside that path.  Every human being on this earth is part of the god energy that created us and capable of finding their own path to eternity.  It will not be the same as mine except by accident of birth and location.

He says there are two paths. One is narrow that leads off into life, the other is board and wide, which leads off into death.

The narrow one you must believe, and live Gods way.
The board and wide, believe, and live any way you want. Create your own path.