Help wanted :Victor or other (esp. Spanish) wine expert

I you have been following my posts and mentions of the RV sequel, Daniel's Daughter, you might have picked up on the possible importance of Abuelita Isabela's grapevines.

Don't want to go into too many spoilers, but (and I will be posting more about this in "Concepts,") the establishment of the Rancho de Pineda winery mentioned in the 21st timeline story involving Stone and Khani will be a significant part of the 20th century timeline in DD.

Here is what I'm working on.  My son-n-law, our family wine connosieur,  has told me my concept here is doable, but as I get into it, I need a bit more information.  I can eventually find it, but if you guys know anything, it would be truly helpful.

OK, one of our favorite wines to go with Thanksgiving Dinner has traditionally been a French wine called Nouvelle Beaujolais.  As I understand it, this is a "new wine," that is bottled specifically as an early wine - one that is to be enjoyed as soon as it is bottled, rather than to be held onto and aged, because the process was designed for it to be served while it is at its freshest.  It is light and refreshing as opposed to aged and mellow.


Now, my story is that the winery begins its operation by introducing a young, fresh wine called Isabela Roja - named for Daniel's mother-in-law, Isabela de Pineda, and was traditonally served during the Fall season, especially around Thanksgiving.  My son-in-law has assured me that this is a possibility.

Question is, what grapes would have most likely been used.  These vines would have been brought from Spain by the Conquistadores.  They would be ideally suited for the dry limestone loam of the hill country, that is now producing some of the finest US wines.  The first vinyards were established during the early 1970's - in line with DD's 20th century time warp.

Any idea what grapes might have been brought over from Spain during the 16th or 17th centuries?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_wine

Thank you, Shelagh

Ann, here's my two cents. It doesn't matter what the grapes were. You aren't writing a textbook or a Pillars of the Earth tome. Your readers aren't going to know or care. They just want a good story. You have been working on two Redstone books for four years now, I think? Just finish it already and move on. Unless this is just a dilettante hobby for you where you enjoy just doing a few sentences a night, fretting over grapes.

My Prentice Hall editor told me something years ago that stuck with me. "Don't make the good the enemy of the perfect." I took offense at it at the time, but have realized how right she was. An imperfect book that is finished, published and out there earning money is better than a fussed-over one that sits on your computer. All my books have flaws in them, so what. People still buy them. I do the best I can, but it will never be perfect.

First of all, LC, I really do thank you for your interest and your suggestions.

Four years is pushing it a little.  It's probably closer to two-and-a-half. I spent around a year-and-a-half on the first, and have beeen working on this one for a little over a year.  This book, like the last one, has several different plots, and I work on all of them all of the time.  When I'm in a place where I'm stuck, I shift to a diffrent part, so I am much farther along than you might think.  I do write more than just a few sentences a night.  

I write historical fiction, so having the history as accurate as possible is important for the genre.  And I'm really not that much of a perfectionist, in fact, if I were to tell some of my friends that I was referred to as one would fall out laughing.

Getting the history right and getting to know my characters as well as I can, with detailed character sketches so that I know who they are well enough to let them do their own talking when it's time for them to talk, learning how people dressed, what they ate and drank, how they spoke, including what epithets they might have used when they were upset are all a part, for me, of getting my head into the story, so that when I do write a new scene, I can just let go and let the story tell itself. For the first year I was working on RV, I spent more time on the research than I did ont the story itself. Once it all came together, I wrote more than half of the actual text of th book in a couple of months. It's just the way I work these days.

Since I am retired, I don't have to make a living with my books, so, while I don't see it as a hobby, it isn't something I have to do quickly.  Besides, at 70, I think I've earned the right to spend some time working to get it right.  It is something I do for fun - following my bliss as JC would say.  I can do that now - something else I feel like I've earned the privilege of doing in my dotage.

My memory is not what it was when I was nearer your age, and multi-tasking can be frustrating.  I doubt I would have finished the first novel if I hadn't discovered the yWriter software to help me keep it all organized.

All that being said, I sincerely appreciate your comments, because I sometimes do get bogged down in details and it becomes time to let go and move on, and that is another thing my friends, and my oldest daughter, could and would tell you, as the do tell me, so thank you again for reminding me.

Glad you took my post in the spirit it was intended. Me, I'm trying to get more productive with each book, and kick it out the door as fast as possible. I'm alloting myself X number of hours on each writing/research task, and that's IT.

An example is the minutes I took last week for my department's advisory meeting (it was my turn to be the secretary). Used to be I'd fuss and fidget over such a task, trying to get the writing perfect. Now I realize: what for? They're just minutes! I typed them up on my iPad as the meeting progressed and then cleaned them up ...took me about an hour and I was done. Submitted. Best part is that the hour cleaning them up was during a class where I gave the students an assignment, and they worked on it while I worked on my assignment. LOL

I currently have three books in production and am writing a fourth. This fourth is on a fast track because the editor wants it out in time for next year's Christmas shopping. I don't like fast track writing because I can't go back to previous chapters and fix or add things. But maybe that will prove to be a GOOD thing. We'll see.

Ann, concerning the type of grape used.  I think that information is available, but can’t see how important that is and agree with LC’s assessment.
 
I live in the wine country.  There are numerous types of grapes.  I’ve learned much, but I'm not an expert.  The Winzern here have traditionally made wine based on a particular grape and the wine is named after the grape.  That is changing.  From what I gather, inferior or less known grapes were blended with other grapes for taste.  Today you find many wines that indicate a particular blend.  I don’t know about other regions, but where I live, Wizen continue to produce wines based on the grape.  If the harvest is poor due to the weather where there is not enough sun to give the grape its full taste, they are beginning to blend grapes and come up with new wine names.  I personally buy only the wines that are unadulterated. 
As for your fiction story, you should be free to speculate on what it might have been.

Thank you for your advice, Abe.

The article Shelagh linked was very helpful, and while I was searching, I found several more on the wines of Texas.  

I live in wine country, too, and have been to most of the wineries here more than once.  I know that varietals are most often named for the grape used.  I also know that the grape itself has less to do with the flavor of the wine than the soil it is grown in.  For instance, one of the wines from Becker Vinyards, near Fredericksburg, is a Claret.  It tastes nothing like French Claret, and is served as a dinner wine, rather than an apertif.  Back in the 1950's, I learned from my father some years ago, there was a blight in Southern France that destroyed many of the French vines, and their solution was to import vines from California, so, today, most French wine is produced from Californian plants.  It hasn't had that great an effect on the traditional French wines, because the grapes are now being grown in French soil.

German wines are very different from Spansh wines, as are the current Texas vines from those brought in during the 1970's when the current Texas wineries got their start.  The grapes, here, too, are influenced more by our limestone soil.  They have their own distinctive flavor, which is different from the same varietals planted in California or New York State, for example.

Certain plot elements for my fictinal story revolve around some old grapevines and a small vinyard kept by Daniel's mother-in-law at the rancho where his wife, Maria, grew up, and which became a very small part of the vinyards that the family will develop during the 1970's, and as such, are a symbol of the timelessnes of life in the valley, much as Daniel's travels between the time warps.. Not knowing the names of the grapes does not slow down the writing, for it is something that can be fit into the process when it is closer to becoming a product.  I recall asking you some questions about Greman names and titles, etc, while I was writing RV.  You responded very graciously at the time, and I think you for that.

It was a simple question. I particularly thought of Victor because of his ancestry, and thought that he might have something to share.  I have not had time to read all of the Wiki article Shelagh linked, but I imagine it will have something about those early grapes and their vines.  I am already stretching the truth a bit since I know that most of the few commercial vinyards in Texas in the 19th century were in the area around Del Rio rather than here.  Isabela's little vinyard is a bit of an anomaly, but not impossible for the time.  Besides, her vines were not a commercial venture - just something she loved doing for her family and neighbors.

As I told LC, writing these books is about having fun, and living this part of my life doing something that I feel passionate about and love doing, and sharing the process of it with everyone here, my fellow writers, some of whom I have known since Shelagh first started this forum, and others, like you, since the early days just after AMIA was published, when we met on the pld PAMB.  You are all important to me.  that is why I come here and share what I know and what I am writing.  I had thought that was what this forum was all about.

LC is right again. Such a clever clogs. I thought I had covered everything when I wrote A Family Arrangement. I couldn't believe that I used "teenagers" in the nineteen twenties! It hit me in the eye with a huge wallop when I loaded the opening parts of the story onto Wattpad.

Agreed, I still find flaws in AMIA that go back to the first edition, and are compounded in the second, mostly because of going back to an earlier file to avoid possble copyright problems with PA, added to the fact that the file was an old Word 97 file, and complicated by some problems with CreateSpace not recognizing some of the format instructions.

The same is true for RS and RV, but the problems have more to do with typos that I didn't catch, and some stylistic constructions that, looking back, I might have done differently.

I'm sure there are anachronisms that I just haven't noticed, or am ignorant of. But as you said, the time comes when you need to let a thing go.

The grape issue, though, is almost resolved already, thanks to that article on New World wines and the sub-articles that are linked to it. The search is narrowing quite nicely, and I'm having fun with it. It's one of those things that when it's stopped being fun, it's time to move on. Meantime, thanks for the help and the well-intended comments. I do appreciate them.

Movies always contain flaws, but it does have to do with time.  I have a problem as a reporter with perfection.  It cuts into my income because I put too much into a short article. 

Unfortunately, I have stopped writing novels.  I lost the concentration with 14 short articles a month of every variety and the interview time that goes with them.

I enjoy your discussions about your writing, Ann, and always have.  I like LC's advice too about learning balance to what is required vs. perfection.  And all the posts at this forum are like a bunch of friends gathering for coffee and talking about their writing, their religion and politics.  It is like people used to do before television and video games.

We used to gather in an evening in the 80's and read novels aloud, plays too, and talk about them.  Now, I live a more solitary life with a smaller friend circle.

Yes, balance is good, and I do tend to get off on tangents.  This one has already proved to be a valuable one though, with one article leading to another, and back to some older articles I already had on hand from the earliest days o researching how Daniel's parents got from New Orleans to Central Texas by using El Camino Real, or the Royal Road, which runs across Texas from around Shreveport, La into Nacodoches to San Antonio and down to Del Rio.  It was through this route that the Spanish Black grape was probably first introduced in Texas and possibly in Coahuila, the northernmost state in Mexico.  although it is also possible that the earliest form was brought up from Central Mexico in the 16th century, where a rich red wine was produced at a mission in El Paso (and was the wine that Daniel took into the hidden valley with Maria on their honeymoon. - which could also have been a source for Isabela's vines.)

There is a mystery attached to the known history of the grape that suggests that it might first have been brought in by the Conquistadores, and would explain how it appeared in several places, including the Hill Country at an earlier date than is generally assumed to have been introduced (late 18th century to mid 19th)

I now have not only the grape but the means for developing the 20th century timeline re the establishment of the Pineda winery.

And it has taken me about three hours, off and on between taking care of a few household chores.  And it all started from Shelagh's Wiki suggestion.

All I needed was a name and a plausability. I won't need to delve any deeper - as you all have pointed out, it is a fictional story, and a fantasy one at that.

I would imagine that it may be a while before Victor pops back in, as it is getting closer to the end of a semester, but would still be curious to know more, if he or anyone else who might know the history of this Spanish  Black grape, or of the more modern variety known as Lenoir.

alj wrote:

 And it all started from Shelagh's Wiki suggestion.

What would we do without her?

http://www.fairhavenvineyards.com/information/research.html

Yes, this was one of the articles I found on that search.  it gave me just what I needed.

The Lenoir would have easily been transported from Georgia to Louisiana, especially since, at that time, they were part of the same territory. And the Pineda family had relatives in New Orleans. Wine was available, made from grapes that were sometimes grown in the region just north of New Orleans.

See how much fun it becomes?

But it's balancing time.

Maggie and Jack are currently picking grapes at Isabela's vineyard. got to go now.

Thanks again

Ann, it sort of reminds me of people who are very much into researching their ancestors.  It's like a mystery unfolding and its addictive.

Ann, just another comment.  I forgot to mention the importance of soil that affects the taste and you pointed that out.  Some of the best wine is found in areas where it is difficult to work the vineyards.  One example is along the Rhine River.  The banks are very steep and everything must be done by hand with lots of hard work.  The soil is sandy.
Before anyone plants a new vineyard in our area, it is first evaluated by experts who test the soil.  Some wines indicate the location of the vineyards on the labels.

As DK said, once one gets into a subject it can become addictive.  It always amazes me how much we learn when we have an interest in a subject.

Yes, it is like that.  My brother was the addicted one.  I got started after seeing one of his reports that mentioned that my great-great grandmother's (Martha Ann, like me) mother was named Ailcy Foster, and had lived in Benton, Co Missouri,  I was intrigued and asked my brother if he had followed up on her and he said no, that there wasn't any point since she was a female ancestor.

Well, after that, I had to look into her. and was bale to trace her line back another two generations.  I told my brother I was researching my matrilineal history and he said he didn't know what that meant.
I spent some time trying to write a set of historical novels based on the actua women, but that proved to be a major problem, since I had to be committed to those actual facts.  It was just as LC said.  I was so bogged down in getting them right that I couldn't let go and just write their stories.

It was about that time that I remembered the Redstone character that I had written about back in the 80's.  

Bt there is still much family history involved.  Daniel's family in NO were merchant seamen and shipbuilders, like my ancestor George Levingston that I wrote about in Belfast to St Joe.  Daniel's daughter Maggie is the same age as my gg-grandmother Martha Ann, and that family's CW experience in MO was very very, close to what was happening in the Hill Country.  So the research I did then has been very helpful here. (Like finding out everything I could about riding sidesaddle - my Martha Ann was known to have been an excellent horsewomn who was still riding in her 80's)

When you set your mind on projects like these, they do take over.  I know it's the right thing for me to be doing because I keep running into these synchronicities that point me in the direction I need to go.  Once I get enough background into place, the story takes over, but now, the facts are not that integral to the story.  I am not hampered by the birth and death dates of particular characters, and I don't have to count back nine months to see what was historically known at that time.

I wish Carol were still here to help eplain.  She managed to do what I could not.  I do much better when the fiction precedes the history but it doesn't mean that the history can be ignored altogether.

Abe, I haven't read your post, but since I am working from my Kindle, I need to post this first.

Abe F. March wrote:

Ann, just another comment.  I forgot to mention the importance of soil that affects the taste and you pointed that out.  Some of the best wine is found in areas where it is difficult to work the vineyards.  One example is along the Rhine River.  The banks are very steep and everything must be done by hand with lots of hard work.  The soil is sandy.
Before anyone plants a new vineyard in our area, it is first evaluated by experts who test the soil.  Some wines indicate the location of the vineyards on the labels.

As DK said, once one gets into a subject it can become addictive.  It always amazes me how much we learn when we have an interest in a subject.

Yes, and the Rhine area produces some really great wines.

The Hill Country doesn't have that problem. It does have others, including the summer heat, and the short winters. It's one reason the history of this particular grape is important. The Lenoir version is blight resistant; the "B" variety is much less so, so it will be helpfl if I can find a way for Isabela's grapes to be a hybrid of the two. this morning's researh has shown me how I can do that, and is one of those little synchronicities that crop up when you follow yur bliss.

Interesting that we have days here when nobody says much of anything and the chance to have a dialog would be a fun way to get through the day, but when you have a task at hand and your phone keeps dinging "new message," you can only go so long without checking it out, especially if you believe that such messages are a part of the whole of knowing your current purpose.

One of the ittle annoyances of typing from this bluetooth for my Kindle is that I have not, so far, been able to get it to draw those squiggly little red lines under my mistyped words. At least it is better than trying to work with the Kindle's own keyboard which decides what it thinks you meant to say and is invariably wrong.

Back later.

Ann,

Sorry for the late response--I only just noticed this while skimming some of the recent posts.

I'm no expert on Spanish wines, unfortunately (or on wine generally--I just know what I like). If you are simply looking for a recognizable grape and are not particular as to the type of wine, I would go (as  a matter of personal preference and regional pride as much as anything else) with

Albariño, a grape from Galicia (North West Spain) that has been used to produce the unique semi dry white wine that bears its name since the Second Century and has been recognized as a prime grape and wine since at least since the Sixteenth Century. It is a personal favorite--my only favorite Spanish white, in fact, other than the wonderful Cava varietals (sparkling white wines--Spain's answer to Champagne). I don't know how well they would thrive on the soil you describe, but I doubt your readers will either. And if someone did steal some old vine clippings and transport them here, I'd surely like to taste the result.

Thanks, Victor.  I found the grape - the grape.  It's called the Spanish Black, or Black Spanish.

I am continually surprised by the twists this Redstone journey takes., esppecially during these last year or so.  What I've been doing is coming up with a storyline.  then, I feel I need to anchor it in some form of reality, at least as a possibility.  Sometimes the possibility part involves local legends, but if I can't find a connector, I don't use the scenario.

In this instance, the basic story has involved the RV 20th century character, Johnny, aka JT.  I can't tell you his last name because I'm still not sure what it is.  Whatever the name turns out to be, he is the inheritor of the Double R Ranch established in the mid 19th century by Daniel Redstone.

My feeling has been that in the mid-20th century, the heirs  to the Double-R entered a period of hard times, mostly due to changing perspectives of the world around them.  How do they get beyond it?  My answer to my question was that the past would save the "present," by a renewal of the origina; Spanish land grant heritage, by branching into a blend of sustainable farming and husbandry that included turning the original Spanish Rancho into a winery.  More recently, as I have come into the actual drafting of that part of the 2nd book, I have wondered how it would happen.  I have looked into the history of the region.  I found (whew!) that the time period coincided with the same happening in the Hill country.  I figured, the way the story was developing, that I would need a relatively "quck fix."

I put that together with my personal attachment to Nouvelle Beaujolais, which is popular here during the holidays, because it is a special "young wine" which is released early, and while it is young, is light and refreshing.  In my mind I concocted a "new wine" which originated with Daniel's mother-in-law, which she created and oversaw the production of - not as a commercial product, but as a gift of love for family and neighbors.  In my head, it became Isabela Roja.  All good in my head, but was it a viable possibility?

That was the reason for my post.  Fortunately I found the grape that could make the story possible. Shelagh posted a link to a a very good link to that grape's website and it's history a few posts back if you are interested.

For me, when these things congeal, I cannot help but believe that it is due, at least in part, to me following my bliss.

Like the "new wine," Isabela Roja, the Redstone saga is not so much meant to be a commercial product as a gift to family and community.

Howeve, if I can figure a way to receive as well as give, I will not complain. 

And Victor - I have run acros the albarino grape in several articles, and am thingking of seeing how it might fit into a white wine for the de Pineda winery.  Time will tell.

I'll drink to that!

Victor D. Lopez wrote:

I'll drink to that!

Annie