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 Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !

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joefrank
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PostSubject: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySat Jun 02, 2012 5:56 pm

6/2/2012

This is a disgrace when a women goes to planned parenthood and states

she doesn't want a baby girl but her husband loves boys, planned parenthood

goes along with this...This is not about women's rights, it's about murdering a

baby girl at 5 months....This is a live breathing human being, this breaks my heart

when someone wants to dothis stupid act ! The Govt. should take away the 500 Million

dollars it gives to them.......A baby at 5 months

Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! 520mon10
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySat Jun 02, 2012 6:21 pm

Planned parenthood has always served an important function, and has traditionally supported the rights of women to prevent unwanted pregnancy. It still does that. Women have the right to choose.

Live Action is pro-life propaganda. It is attempting to turn planned parenthood against itself by making these ridiculous claims.

Do not buy into it.

Ann

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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySat Jun 02, 2012 6:53 pm

6/2/2012

Ann..

You know what you talk about...This is on video

and women do admit they don't want a girl, I consider

this murder ! It's not about regular abortion, it's about

having an abortion because of the child's sex, this makes

me sick !

Cheers.Joe
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySat Jun 02, 2012 7:26 pm

People the world over make choices about childbearing. Some women have no choice due to ignorance and religious controls.

Bottom line: A woman giving birth is dangerous. It puts her life in danger. It changes her body in hundreds of ways. It changes her life forever.

Sexual activity for a woman is an internal situation full of danger, from disease to the dangers of being pregnant.

No man has a right to make life and death judgments regarding a woman's body that are not her decisions.

The life inside a pregnant woman is part of her, one with her body, dependent on her remaining alive and providing the womb and the nourishment. Without her willingness and her body's ability to nurture that life, it has no life.

When a woman makes a decision about her own body, she needs a safe and nurturing place for that decision. Before organizations like planned parenthood abortions were done with coathangers and by quacks and she died or was made sterile or lived a miserable existence afterward. With proper care, she can live to bear other children if that is her destiny, to bring children into the world that might have been prevented from even being conceived if she had not been able to make the first choice for her own life.

Planned parenthood, however, only does abortions with care and concern for the mother and what is right for her. Their main service is preventive health care for all women, from cancer screenings to prenatal care. They are the main provider of women's health care for those who fall between the cracks. They save lives every day that go on to be contributors to this world whether through the children the have or by their own lives.

Prejudice against Planned Parenthood is part of the male fear of losing control - the last bit of control they have is the religious argument regarding the life inside a woman's body - again, part of her body, not alive on its own. Men want to control women. They must control women. They need women to come to them for permission - that last bit of control.

That is the "head of the household" religious belief. For women born into that system, I don't fault them if they are fulfilled in the roles that put men in power over their lives. However, I believe we are ALL created in God's image with an equal relationship with our spiritual selves and capable of making our own decisions about our own bodies.

Damning planned parenthood is part of the fear mongering that is going on this country - fear of losing control. Men are losing control of their spouses and their women; white people are losing control of their unique opportunities by virtue of the white entitlements; wealthy men are afraid to part with any of it and with some wonderful exceptions, shut themselves away in their gated worlds untouched by those in poverty that are only numbers that threaten them by needing care, needing government assistance.

Spritual beliefs are between individuals and their creator. I can believe that your actions are wrong and immoral and against the teachings of the church; but you have the right to your own beliefs without my interference so long as you are not endangering me. I have the right to seek information at a place like planned parenthood and no one has the right to prevent me from health care and knowledge and yes, abortion if needed.

Again, abortion is part of planned parenthood because they were one of the first organizations to recognize that women were being murdered by quacks and home remedies and they stepped forward to save lives; yes, save lives.

Anyone concerned about abortions needs to step forward and adopt the children no longer babies who have special needs; they need to support methods to prevent pregnancy and wide distribution of information and latex condoms that also prevent life altering disease. They need to tear down the billboards showing a fetus that is not on its own - but is one with its mother's body and therefore subject to her decisions about her life.

Planned parenthood is just that - planned. They provide the information to PREVENT unwanted pregnancy and diseases.

I am so tired of the hate mongering in this country and the organizations that want to control my life through the destruction of institutions that are beneficial to those least able to afford the care that the wealthier can find anywhere in the world.

Why do I see it so clearly and people I love and admire are blind to their hate and bias and prejudice? They rationalize their control issues with false data and fear and outdated religious practices.

Why is life sacred in the Catholic church? Because every new child is a member of the Catholic church and makes it grow. Why were there so many children given birth in the past? Because children and mothers died in childbirth. Children were property to work on the farms. It's only the wealthy that regarded children as special, to be the heirs to wealth.

No, I don't believe that abortion should be used for birth control anymore than I believe in capital punishment. I do believe life is sacred; but I differ in who makes the choice about a woman's body. Prevention is the best; and planned parenthood can't win. They are the best answer for prevention and they are damned for providing information that saves sexually active people from pregnancy and disease.



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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySat Jun 02, 2012 9:21 pm

6/2/2012

DK..

As usual you come off as a know it all, why men don't

have opinions ? All I said was no one has the right to get

rid of a child because of it's sex, that is amoral, period ! If

a person doesn't want a child because of it's sex, then have

it and give it up for adoption, there's plenty of people out there

who would give their life to have a child. As usual people who are

Socialist Democrats have the biggest and the loudest mouths..

Cheers...Joe
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySat Jun 02, 2012 9:59 pm

Joe,
I like the term "Socialist Democrat" To me, it means compassion for ones fellow man. If proclaiming ones love and concern for the underprivileged is becomes loud, then perhaps it will be heard.

I contnue to be shocked at the number of people proclaiming "freedom" as in the Land of the Free, and those same people wanting to take away freedoms. Deeds, not words are the best proof. Perhaps there is a new definition of freedom.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 5:02 am

I don't know that I might ever have had an abortion. Sometimes women have them for reasons I personally would not consider. That does not change the fact that a pregnant woman is the only one who has the right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy to term.

I will not go back over the points DK made. She made them extremely well.

To deny all women this right, or to refuse funding for the organization that has done the most to help couples who want to limit their families as well as to help women who choose not to become mothers, is wrong. There will always be a few people who take advantage of a law that protects the rights of all of us. Look at the tax loopholes that allow the very rich to pay few or no taxes when the average person is struggling to pay an inordinate amount.

We cannot believe everything we read or see on TV or video. Every writer/producer has an agenda. When that agenda becomes paramount, the truth can get twisted. One can nearly always find a few examples that involve a small minority and report them as though they represented the majority. We see that happening in the news all the time. We must learn to be discerning.

If you look up the LiveAction group, as I posted earlier, you will find that their agenda is pro-life and anti-choice. This group will use whatever information or dis-information they come across to further that agenda. We need to balance such claims by looking into both sides of the issue, and seeing vaild statistics before we decide the right or wrong of a thing.

That is all I am saying.

Ann
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 6:04 am

There was a time in my life when I sat back and said nothing, the ultimate peace maker. I always feared that anything controversial would hurt my career. Well, my career is writing, and writing opens the possibilities of expressing controversial thoughts.

Thank you, Ann, for saying things in fewer words, which were needed. I have never been considered socialist and these days I lean toward the Democrats because I see the Republicans inordinately influenced by fringe groups who make proposals that limit freedoms and increase the role of government. Both of those positions are not what I remember when I believed I was Republican. I was never a religious fanatic, I never wanted government interfering in my intimate personal decisions and I wanted government exercising the role of protecting society as a whole, with all its differences; not bent on creating conformity to a specific religious doctrine or not funding the needs of society.

So, I speak up these days to fight against narrow snippets of anecdotal information that are turned into heinous half-truths and then blasted over the Internet and the news media to harm those who are least able to fight for their needs.

My diatribe, Joe, was not against men or against your belief. My diatribe was to express my belief that the domination of male power and influence negates the contributions that women equally have in this world. Many people still believe in the caveman theory and they are welcome to their beliefs but not welcome to force my life to conform. Fortunately, girls feet are not broken to insure that Chinese women cannot run and are forever hobbled to follow men. There are still gruesome examples throughout the world. In this country, the broken feet are more subtle and couched in religious terminology.

I believe in life. I believe in the life of all sentient beings. I also believe that there is a balance in the universe that seeks harmony, and that all life is in one way or another interdependent. To have life, that harmony includes death. It also includes different views of which sentient beings are most valuable - and those views change over time.

I am welcome to express my views and so is anyone else. I am not welcome to legislate my views and prevent another from living theirs unless their views are a threat to society. Fanatical points of view are dangerous, dangerous to hold and dangerous to spread.

I am disappointed that I am considered as a "loud mouth" by someone whose art and beauty and keen interest in the world is appreciated by me. However, that is the risk I willingly take these days because I believe my experiences with the dark side of life and the diversity in the world have opened my eyes to views that need to be expressed in a time of such hateful points of view and media that promulgate them.

Labels are also dangerous. I am no label. I am a thinking person whose opinions change as I gather new information and experiences. It is easier saying nothing; it saves criticism. I value each person on this forum for their opinions and am grateful that Joe with his eye for the beauty in this world expresses his. My diatribe was not to attack Joe, but rather to rant about those who have so little understanding about women and allow that lack of understanding is a loss to society.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 6:24 am

Just as an aside. I've never known a woman to care about the sex of the baby at her breast. Concern about the sex of the child comes from men who want male heirs to carry on the family name, business, inheritance or even repeat themselves. A woman may say, "I want one of each," but a baby is precious regardless of its gender. Men, however, often have specific preferences and exert those preferences on their wives. My sweet stepmother was one of five daughters because her father wanted a son -

So, if a woman expresses that her actions relate to the sex of the child, you can bet that there is a man behind it, just as Prince Charles needed a brood mare when he married Dianna in spite of being in love with Camilla.

Because many men have child gender preferences does not mean that all men have those preferences to a fanatical extent.

Defining the behavior of men does not mean that I find them defective. They just behave as their DNA instinctively leads them. It's just that the modern world is a complex place with varying degrees of intellectual and emotional development. It is better for society to combat instincts for the benefit of all its members.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 7:05 am

DK wrote:
Quote :
Concern about the sex of the child comes from men who want male heirs to carry on the family name, business, inheritance or even repeat themselves.

In his OP, Joe wrote:

Quote :
This is a disgrace when a women goes to planned parenthood and states
she doesn't want a baby girl but her husband loves boys
,

So, it seems to me that the "disgrace" is not about the woman's choice so much as it is that we still live in a world where masculine dominance can hold such sway. Clearly, this woman believes that she must give her husband what he wants. That is the crux of the problem, isn't it?

The example only illustrates the irony involved: This woman obviously does not believe she has the right to decide for herself, but must do what her husband wants her to do.

That, to my way of thinking, is the crime.

Ann
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 7:45 am

The term, "Planned Parenthood" was not in use when I was young. There was no planning. The usual joke was that the first child was most always pre-mature.
In my family, the only one who planned having children is my youngest daughter. It was discussed in advance and then a time set to begin the process. I cannot believe that having sex was avoided, but rather that pregnancy was avoided until the time was right. Having the means to plan a family is great. Not everyone has the means. Some don't have the preventive means while others don't have the financial means.

Just as I don't think religious preference should be dictated, I don't think sex should be dictated. People should be taught to be responsible for their actions and that includes all aspects of life. Planned parenthood is part of an education process.
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 7:47 am

6/3/2012

DK...AJ....Abe

Sorry I went off the handle ! It always hurts me when I read

or hear about these stories. Just like the one where children in Syria

were murderedor that little boy who witnessed his family being killed,

to me children are precious, they should lead a normal life as a child.

AJ..Yes I do agree their are men out their who have this macho attitude

it has to be a boy ! Maybe they should be pregnant and see what it's

like.....

Joe.....Sad
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 8:05 am

Joe, you are a true artist, and that makes you a passionate person. No hard feelings.

Abe, "Planned Parenthood," as an organization, goes back to 1916. It was founded by Margaret Sanger, who also coined the term, "birth control."

Quote :
On October 16, 1916, Sanger opened a family planning and birth control clinic at 46 Amboy St. in the Brownsville neighborhood of Brooklyn, the first of its kind in the United States.[28] Nine days after the clinic opened, Sanger was arrested for breaking a New York state law that prohibited distribution of contraceptives, and went to trial in January 1917.[29] Sanger was convicted; the trial judge held that women did not have "the right to copulate with a feeling of security that there will be no resulting conception."[30] Sanger was offered a more lenient sentence if she promised to not break the law again, but she replied: "I cannot respect the law as it exists today."[31] She was sentenced to 30 days in a workhouse.[31] An initial appeal was rejected, but in a subsequent court proceeding in 1918, the birth control movement won a victory when Judge Frederick E. Crane of the New York Court of Appeals issued a ruling which allowed doctors to prescribe contraception.[32] The publicity surrounding Sanger's arrest, trial, and appeal sparked birth control activism across the United States, and earned the support of numerous donors who would provide her with funding and support for future endeavors.[33]

Ann
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 8:16 am

Ann, I didn't know that. I can only suppose that that kind of news was not something talked about in our Rural area, and it was not something discussed in school.

I have mixed feelings about abortion. My wife was told by her doctor not to have another child in that it could be life-threatening. She took the pill and still got pregnant. Her doctor was in Maryland and we were living in NY State. NY prohibited abortions with few exceptions. By the time her Maryland doctor and the NY doctor came to an understanding, it was too late to abort. She went into the hospital where they were fully prepared for her condition. The "not to be" child was born healthy. My wife lost lots of blood but they were preparesd with transfusions and she came out of it okay. That baby girl is treasured. She is the only child that has given us grandchildren. You can understand why I have mixed feelings, however one cannot base an entire program on one incident as you mentioned earlier. It could have turned out the other way, thank God it didn't.
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Al Stevens
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 8:31 am

Closing down Planned Parenthood would be a draconian measure that would deprive many women of a medical procedure that they need. I am no fan of abortion as a cavalier means of birth control, but I don't think it's any of the government's business either.

"Pro-choice" is a euphamism for pro-abortion. "Pro-life" is a euphamism for anti-abortion. Both have been coined to soften the positions of their supporters by avoiding the A word. Why don't we say it like it is?
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 8:39 am

I hear you, Abe.

It's an important topic for me. So much so that I decided to put a few scenes into the book about it. Since it has come up here, I've posted a couple of those scenes - temporarily - in the WIP section. I did the research for the scenes, BTW. The situation is plausible. During the time period, it would have been one of a very few means to achieve the desired end.

I think the scenes make my point.

Ann
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 9:28 am

6/3/2012

Peace To The World..

Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! Peace_10
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptyMon Jun 04, 2012 7:02 am

That's the problem with labels. Moral decisions are very intimate and personal and often change as experience changes. I have very strong beliefs about the sacredness of life; yet, I believe that individuals have the right to make those decisions in their own lives.

Organizations that provide health care and promote the well-being of women and children who often have not the financial means to have the care these need should be supported. It is too easy for those who have financial resources for their life choices to reduce services to those without financial resources.

I am losing friends lately. A close friend of many years told me that her sister was a poor money manager and she had to help her out financially. The spouse has a debilitating and terminal illness. I made the mistake of saying, "it's easier to manage money when you have some. Your mistakes don't take food off the table or prevent the purchase of medicine. You can escape life's issues with a magnificent vacation, an evening at the concert, a quiet dinner in an exclusive restaurant with a bottle of wine. Yes, it's easier to damn a person who is struggling financially because they made a money error and had their lights shut off. She probably had an unexpected doctor bill followed by a collection agency, a battery die on her car with no savings to buy a new one, income tax due because she didn't have enough withheld because she needed to use every penny. And maybe she made an extravagant purchase when she had a few moments alone to wander the mall as a relief while a friend sat with her spouse.

Yes, it's so easy to condemn the lazy, good for nothing poor money managers who live on food stamps and off the taxes of the hard working when life hasn't dealt any financial or health blows and work and a pension brings in steady income. The working poor have always been one paycheck from homeless - and now they are homeless. Homeless does not mean without a house - it means without the income to pay rent and utilities, let alone food. These are difficult times. The last thing our society needs to do is to shut down programs that meet health needs. It's all so clear to me; I don't understand the thinking of people who claim themselves to be "Christian." Christ would not recognize his followers.

On another subject. Sometimes a response to a post may look personal. Usually, it's not. It's just a take off from the subject. We all have opinions that are much broader and deeper than what are expressed here. None of us who are willing to put our thoughts on paper and publish are labels - we are thinking, caring people who are brave enough to discuss very controversial subjects.
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptyMon Jun 04, 2012 8:23 am

At the risk of offending everyone, I will offer my minority opinion. There is nothing new under the sun. Women have been bearing children for centuries and do have the final word over having children. If they don't have the resources or desire for a child they should abstain from conceiving a child.

Birth control should be free for women

I agree with Joe, in so far as aborting a baby merely because it is a girl is out of line. Many people would be very eager to adopt the unwanted girl.
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptyMon Jun 04, 2012 8:31 am

6/4/2012

Alice..

Thank You !



Cheers..Joe...Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! 925501
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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptyMon Jun 04, 2012 8:42 am

I'm not sure you are in the minority, Alice. It's like DK said, the problem is in the label. I don't think a woman should have an abortion because of the baby's gender, either, but you can't make it a blanket rule.

Some genetic diseases and/or birth defects are carried through a child of one sex or the other and not through both. Whether or not this might be the case in a particular conception can often only be determined through amniocentesis. If the law were to prohibit abortion based on the sex of the fetus, what recourse might that mother have?

It is another of those areas where right and wrong are just not clearly defined.

Being pro-choice is not necessarily the same thing as being pro-abortion.

And some birth control methods work by causing a spontaneous abortion of an embryo.

So where do we draw the line?

Ann

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PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptyMon Jun 04, 2012 8:49 am

Joe, I don't think we were voicing approval of the apparent reason for that particular woman's choice so much as expressing concern for shutting off funding for the association, or for reversing all women's legal rights, because some women might make what some of us, from our limited individual perspectives, might consider a poor choice.

Ann
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Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptyMon Jun 04, 2012 8:57 am

It has already been drawn. Women abort whenever they feel like it.
I am not for more laws.

I am for love.
Love for an unwed mother. The recognition that somewhere there is a father just as responsible for the situation as she is. The welcome of the child should be as genuine and sincere. These things cannot be legislated.

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alj
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Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptyMon Jun 04, 2012 9:00 am

alice wrote:

I am for love.
Love for an unwed mother. The recognition that somewhere there is a father just as responsible for the situation as she is. The welcome of the child should be as genuine and sincere. These things cannot be legislated.

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Ann
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Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! EmptyMon Jun 04, 2012 9:05 am

The funding issue is a difficult one. Some religions are against birth control and abortion, no matter the reason.

Maybe Planned Parenthood should be privately funded. Believers might do better than the government:)
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Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding !   Planned parenthood should be closed down..No funding ! Empty

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