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 Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !

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joefrank
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joefrank

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PostSubject: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 12:07 pm

10/17/2011


There should be very strict laws against bullying !
Now another young person is gone ! Read on..


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/jamie-hubley-commits-suicide_n_1015646.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C104998

Joe
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alj
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alj

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 12:44 pm

Joe, would it do much good to make stricter laws? Bullies, by definition, believe they are their own law.

We live in a world where bullying is becoming more prevalent. Wouldn't it help more to find out why that s the case, and work toward a world where people don't feel the need to act out such brutality?

Ann
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alice
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alice

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 1:04 pm

Chilldren should be reared in a nonviolent manner. No slappping, spanking, shaking or yelling. Bullying begins in the home.
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joefrank
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joefrank

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 3:42 pm

10/17/2011



Ann.........Alice..

I agree....It all starts at home with the parents.


Cheers..Joe
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alice
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alice

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 4:42 pm

Joe,

I am glad you saw the light so quickly. America's problems all boil down to faulty parenting
If only someone knew what to do--right, instead of wrong.
I have never seen a child who was properly reared.

I wasn't, my brother wasn't and my folks weren't. lol! lol! lol!
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melLkinder
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melLkinder

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 6:52 pm

I was bullyed all throughout school. (before I dropped out anyway) The range of emotions I experienced were--what I thought to be--more than anyone so young should have to bear. Now as an adult I have come to realize that it isn't only children who bully. I met my fair share of workforce bullies. Mad Now I tap into that old well of emotions when I write.

I don't think the parents of the bullies understand how much of an impact their child's bullying has on another; how much it molds who they are.
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alice
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alice

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 7:06 pm

Mel,

You dropped out of school? Tell us more.


Someone needs to stand up to these bullies.
Don't be mean to them--just call their bluff.
I was bullied at school, also. Kids that didn't like my mother's teaching picked on me. No fun!
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melLkinder
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 7:38 pm

I dropped out of high school half-way through 10th grade. I wanted to drop out in the 9th but my mom encouraged me to stick it out a little longer. I hated everything about school; especially the fact that I wanted to learn but couldn't focus. Too much drama going on in the classrooms. I had a girl sitting behind me in math class once who enjoyed pulling my hair out one strand at a time so I would fuss aloud and then get yelled at by the teacher. That was in the 7th grade.

Because I dropped out of highschool I was given the opportunity to take career-tech classes for free for one year. I got 100% in my Accounting/Computing class because I was in a room full of adult students. The certificate I earned landed me a job at 17 years old, which I kept for 10 years. Unfortunately, the economy took a turn and the small HVAC business of 50 years didn't survive.

Luckily, during that 10 years I decided to take my GED. I figured it couldn't hurt to take the test. If I failed, I didn't have it anyway. My score revealed a 96 percentile in Science. Once I had the GED in-hand I realized I could go to college. I began my path in Mechanical Engineering. I earned my Associates in Science and Engineering with honors. Upon completion I realized I still enjoyed science and physics but that Engineering wasn't for me.

I began working part-time at a doggie daycare/boarding facility. I LOVE it there with all my furry little friends and it allowed me time to finish writing my first novel and those currently in the works. I would have never finished the first book had my mind been frazzled at the end of the day. I know, because I tried.

And that is my story. Thanks for asking. Very Happy
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 8:21 pm

It's a great story, Mel.

Ann
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joefrank
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joefrank

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 9:25 pm

10/18/2011


Mel..

That was a great story ! When I was a kid I went through
a lot, growing up in the 1950's and early 1960's in a bi-racial
family, if you would like to read the PDF file from the published
book I would be happy to e mail it to you, just e mail me here.
Oh yes this is my big love...Dusty

Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! 2_dust11

Cheers..Joe.. Very Happy
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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 10:42 pm

Interesting story, Mel. Your desire for learning continues. I think that is one of the most important factors in school. Some teachers make the subjects interesting and the students respond with good grades. Bullying is a disruptive force. When I went to grade school in a one room schoolhouse, the teacher was in control and administered discipline. Parents supported the teachers. I was told that if I got a "lickin" in school, I'd get one twice as hard when I got home. Bullying was not tolerated. In a one-room school, the older kids took the lower grades bully in hand. If the bully was in the higher grade, the teacher took action.

In my view, the lack of discipline in the home and in school has contributed to crime. Lack of respect for those in authority is a bully attitude. Learning to respect authority was a huge benefit of the military draft. Where do kids learn respect and self-discipline if not in the home or school?
Above the door of my high school there was a sign. "Live to learn - Learn to live." When the new school was built, the sign disappeared.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 7:12 am

OK - a bit of the devil's advocate here. Abe, what is your definition of "discipline"?

Where do we draw the line between discipline and child abuse? Bullies come from a background of abuse They learn violence, physical and verbal, at home, and see it as the way to get a bit of control back.

I lean toward the need for nurturing and acceptance as the way to give a child enough self-esteem to handle responsibility. A parent's job is to provide guidance through acceptance and allowing a child to become responsible to the extent that she or he is ready for a task or decision.

Once again, (here I go) it's about balance. Too much harsh control is as bad or worse than too little control, and control can be firm without being intimidating to a child's psyche.

Just me.

Ann
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 7:48 am

10/18/2011


When I was growing up in the 1950's and early 1960's if I did
something my parent's didn't like, I had to stay in after school,
no going out, no going to the movies, that hurt. I was taught
to respect teachers ( Told: Their your parents from 9-3 , you
must respect them.) I think today's parents have to teach
their children right from wrong, if they do something wrong then
no computer, no movies, no going out. Then let them think about
what they did wrong and discuss it with them, let them know you
you are not equals, that who you hang out with is how people
look at you....

Cheers..Joe
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 8:00 am

Mel--great story--thanks for the details.

Joe,
I like your upbringing.-- consequences and no hitting. You were very fortunate.



Last edited by alice on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 8:52 am

alj wrote:
OK - a bit of the devil's advocate here. Abe, what is your definition of "discipline"?

Where do we draw the line between discipline and child abuse? Bullies come from a background of abuse They learn violence, physical and verbal, at home, and see it as the way to get a bit of control back.

I lean toward the need for nurturing and acceptance as the way to give a child enough self-esteem to handle responsibility. A parent's job is to provide guidance through acceptance and allowing a child to become responsible to the extent that she or he is ready for a task or decision.

Once again, (here I go) it's about balance. Too much harsh control is as bad or worse than too little control, and control can be firm without being intimidating to a child's psyche.

Just me.

Ann

In my experience, the very worst bullies were the teachers and the parents.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 10:20 am

http://www.personal-development.com/chuck/spanking.htm

This is a real eye-opener.

My parents should not have had children. They were work alcoholics and far too absolute. They were good people, but not kid people. My brother never had a chance with the way he was reared.
My mother lacked good judgement--not her fault, but a fact, non the less.
Fortunately, I did not subscribe to their child-rearing methods.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 10:46 am

Ann, I understand your question and concern. Taking away privileges is one form of punishment. When a teacher or parent says, no, it should not be subject for debate at the time the command is given. There are times when obedience to a "no" command can save a person's life. The explanation can come later.

Discipline is inherent within the military and there is discipline. Disobey orders and suffer the consequences. There must be consequences for disobedience. It's the nature of the consequences that requires reason.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 11:04 am

Yes, I agree about the consequences, but in my experience with my own kids, corporal punishment was less than effective.

Unplugging the Pong game for a specified amount of time worked far better with David, for instance.

Sometimes, it only took a sign of recognition that they knew they had messed up.

I never had to set a curfew. Once they were old enough to go out, they had a clear understanding of my expectations and their responsibility to meet them.

Most of that was reached through open and honest conversation regarding limits and boundaries. Consequences were recognized as a natural result of stepping outside the lines - something that they caused rather than something that was done to them.

I did not receive very effective parenting. Spankings and shouting and insults did not get very far with me. When I became a parent, I vowed to do it differently. I read and studied child psychology, including the work of Alice Miller and William Glasser

Funny thing, when I interviewed for my first teaching job, I was told that Glasser was required reading, as his concepts were the basis of the classroom management program there.

Ann
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 1:59 pm

I wish I could have had teachers like you, Ann.
I like your perspectives.

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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 2:48 pm

My mother did not like me. Not too surprising since she suffered from post partum depession and had a trans-orbital lobotomy after my arrival.
She may not have even been aware of her own feelings.
I hold no ill will towards her as she did the best she could.
It is useful to acknowledge a situation though.
She allowed me to ride a bike over two miles per day to school and back,
hit me for no reason,and worked me like a dog.
I was different with my kids. I liked them. I still do like them too.

As a consequence of her overworking me, I gave then little work to do, just wanted them to be kids. They are both high achievers now.


Last edited by alice on Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 3:45 pm

Dear Alice,

I think you have turned out fine.

It is hard if your mother does not like you. As a kid, you kind of expect that they should like you, protect you, and do all that nurturing stuff.

But, the truth is that sometimes they like themselves more and blame you for living.

I am sorry that happened to you.

Love,

Betty
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 4:09 pm

Everybody thinks that "mother love" is a given. Unfortunately that isn't always the case. I've been there, too. It's hard for a child to get that they are not responsible, and there is still a tendency to blame the victim that can keep the childhood wounds from healing.

Ann
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 4:14 pm

Betty,

It was okay. I was lucky--my dad adored me. You had neither a loving father or mother. How you turned out is the wonder of the world.

My brother was disliked by everyone, except Mom. I feel for you and him.
Mom just knew her life was perfect until I came along.

She was unaware of how I felt about hearing it and stopped saying it once I brought it to her attention. Everyone else that mattered has liked me.

Love to you,

Alice
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 4:17 pm

alj wrote:
Everybody thinks that "mother love" is a given. Unfortunately that isn't always the case. I've been there, too. It's hard for a child to get that they are not responsible, and there is still a tendency to blame the victim that can keep the childhood wounds from healing.

Ann

You are amazing. Wasn't your mother mentally disturbed ? Not your fault, nor hers. You have no reason to feel guilty

I don't either--I did the best I could to take care of Mom in her old-age.
Unfortunately their poor methods of child-rearing came home to roost in my brother who bullied them both in their late years.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life !   Bullying -there should be strict laws-young man loses life ! EmptyTue Oct 18, 2011 4:56 pm

Mainly, Alice, my mom was a very pretty woman who felt threatened by her daughter and gave all her positive attention to her sons.

Eventually, I learned about her childhood, and found there were things she had to deal with that made her choices more understandable.

I, too, was the one to take care of her at the end.

Funny how life works out.

Ann
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