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Shelagh
alice
dkchristi
luigie
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luigie
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luigie


Number of posts : 266
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Age : 82
Location : Nottingham

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PostSubject: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 4:59 am

Has any one heard of lulu.com a self publishing web site?
If so, good or bad?
http://www.lulu.com/
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dkchristi
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dkchristi


Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 6:25 am

It depends on your purpose. If you want a manuscript in print and available for sale, they do that well from what I see. If you want your manuscript to have the stamp of a traditional publisher verifying that a member of the respected publishing industry has determined your work as having commercial value, that is not their business plan.
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luigie
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luigie


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Age : 82
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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 12:21 pm

dkchristi You are probably right in what you say, especially when you have a few successful publications to your name.
But it is not very easy when you are an unknown 'warrior' like me.
I really don't know what is best. I am nearly finished now and have to make a decision one way or another.
As a newby it is difficult to get a member of the respected publishing industry to have a look at my work. There are literally hundreds of thousands of prospective authors in the queue ahead of me.
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dkchristi
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dkchristi


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 12:54 pm

You may want to follow the thread started by Al Stevens. He has posted his step by step experience seeking an agent. Once a manuscript is polished to its professional best, the next step is to seek an agent. You need to have quite the stomach for rejection. Depending on the genre, some publishers (Tor.com for example) will accept self-submissions.

You can always have your books printed by lulu.com and other similar businesses. You may want to save them as a Plan B.

Here's my plan:

Seek an agent
Submit to publishers not requiring an agent.
Submit to small presses & micro presses
Self-publish
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alice
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alice


Number of posts : 15672
Registration date : 2008-10-22
Age : 76
Location : Redmond, WA

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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 2:05 pm

Luigi,

Whatever you do, get it published. Your friends won't care how you do it.

A book is better than a crumpled up manuscript.
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Shelagh
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Shelagh


Number of posts : 12662
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Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 3:34 pm

dkchristi wrote:
You can always have your books printed by lulu.com and other similar businesses. You may want to save them as a Plan B.

Here's my plan:

Seek an agent
Submit to publishers not requiring an agent.
Submit to small presses & micro presses
Self-publish
This from an author who is published by Mandinam Press on Lulu.com.

DK, you are in very good company on Lulu.com. Alice is there for one, right alongside of J. K. Rowling. The Harry Potter series can be bought in ebook format on Lulu. A list of JK's books can be found here:

Harry Potter Books

and you can buy a John Grisham paperback here:

The Last Juror
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alice
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alice


Number of posts : 15672
Registration date : 2008-10-22
Age : 76
Location : Redmond, WA

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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 3:44 pm

Shelagh,

You used them to publish my book after you worked like a dog editing, illustrating, etc.

I don't consider my book self-published.

It is printed by Lulu.
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Shelagh
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Shelagh


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 3:51 pm

It isn't self-published, Alice. It is published by a small press in South Wales. There are now thousands of books by all the NY publishing houses available to buy on Lulu.com through an agreement with Ingram. Your book was added to the site by your publisher in just the same way that all those commercially published books were added.
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alice
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alice


Number of posts : 15672
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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 3:56 pm

Thanks, Shelagh!
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dkchristi
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dkchristi


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 5:44 pm

I was not disparaging lulu.com Regardless of all the success for people who publish with small presses, micro presses and variations of traditional style publishing or self-publishing methods, a qualified agent with connections is still the route to commercial success because of the possibilities provided by a traditional New York publisher.

That's why I recommend a writer have a business plan. What are the goals? If the goal is to publish without the anguish of rejection, then by all means choose lulu.com or any of the myriad variations to self-publishing.

The facts are: brick and morter bookstores put books on their shelves based on the perks from distributors and publishers and expected profits from name recognition; many author organizations will not accept authors into membership who are published by small presses, micro presses and for certain none of the variety of self-publishing venues. Respected reviewers in the major papers will not review books unless presented to them by agents and publishers they know - and they want the books several months before they hit the market. If none of these things matter to an author, by all means go with any publishing method that puts the manuscript in quality print.

Personally, I didn't have the patience to continue seeking an agent; so,I submitted to a small, traditional press with an excellent reputation and award-winning authors even though they are relatively new in the publishing industry. That was my choice. I had to submit my Ghost Orchid to the small press department of Barnes and Noble so their brick and morter stores would carry it.
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Shelagh
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Shelagh


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 2:49 am

Yes, DK, everything you say is good advice. However, Llew asked about a specific company not a question about publishers in general. He is very new to publishing and, like all of us, thought that his book would be given consideration by commercial publishers. He has found out through experience that the competition from new and established authors means that pusuing a publishing contract is not going to lead to success. He's looking at alternatives.
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Shelagh
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Shelagh


Number of posts : 12662
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Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 3:41 am

dkchristi wrote:

Personally, I didn't have the patience to continue seeking an agent; so,I submitted to a small, traditional press with an excellent reputation and award-winning authors even though they are relatively new in the publishing industry. That was my choice. I had to submit my Ghost Orchid to the small press department of Barnes and Noble so their brick and morter stores would carry it.
Forever Travels is currently under consideration by that same small press department. In order to proceed with bookstore placement, I have to agree to a 55% discount and a returns policy for unsold books. I could agree to the former but there is no warehouse to which the unsold books can be returned. The books are print-on-demand and are not stored before consignment. As publisher, I would be taking a great financial risk in the success or failure of the book. This is the reason small presses such as LL Dreamspell rely on the authors themselves getting their books into stores; they are not willing to take the risk.


Last edited by Shelagh on Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Al Stevens
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Al Stevens


Number of posts : 1727
Registration date : 2010-05-11
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 7:11 am

Shelagh describes the period of transition that marks an extreme change in an established industry. We authors are in the middle right now. We have to ride it out until things settle in to how they're going to be and we understand the process. Whatever it turns out to be, it won't be like it was. In the meantime, we must understand our objectives and the industry and choose accordingly.

What I like about lulu is that you can get hard-bound copies in the POD paradigm. What I don't like about them is that once you open your account and initiate a project, even a test project, they pester the crap out of you. I am now getting one and two emails a day from them.

The two main choices in POD publishing seem to be lulu and createspace. The former has the Ingrams connection, which I don't fully understand yet.

Shelagh, could you discuss the process by which you or the South Wales publisher chose lulu over createspace and other options?
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Shelagh
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Shelagh


Number of posts : 12662
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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 7:56 am

Hi Al,

I am still in the process of learning. First thing, you can cancel the emails by clicking on the link at the bottom of your emails from Lulu support: Unsubscribe from marketing emails from Lulu.com. Secondly, Lulu is not linked to Amazon the way that Createspace is.

I chose Lulu.com because the AW forum members were insistent to the point of obsession that PublishAmerica is a vanity press and Lulu is not. I wanted to find out for myself. My experience with PublishAmerica was nothing but a pleasant experience. I laughed with my husband when the dollar advance arrived. We knew it represented very few sales. The contract had stated that there would be an increase in royalties after 2,000 sales -- a clear indication to us that the book would not come close to 2,000 sales. The target is always set at a much higher level than it's expected that authors might achieve. Standard practice. Of course, lots of new authors signing contracts thought that it meant they would sell at least 2,000 books. I can't be held responsible for the way that everyone else thinks!

Anyway, I sold very few books and was just pleased to be given the opportunity to receive an author's questionnarie, proofs and cover art and then two free copies delivered all the way from America! It was an exciting time and I enjoyed every minute of it.

However, a group of mean-spirited aspiring commercially-published authors wanted to belittle my achievement and mar the experience. They were not happy with their PublishAmerica experience and they would be damned if anyone else should be. They insisted that it was cool to be published by Lulu but a slur against you to be associated with PublishAmerica.

So, when I was given back shared printing rights, I self-published Mr. Planemaker's Flying Machine. Before that, I had edited and published my very first novel, The Power of Persuasion, on Lulu. It was nothing like the enjoyable experience with PA. No author questionnaire, no proofs to read, no cover art appearing out of thin air. I had to do everything. I had to learn how to set up and lay out a manuscript. Margins to be considered; the amount of guttering to be decided upon; font choice and font size had to be chosen; headings for chapters had to be added without appearing on the chapter heading pages. Then I had to design the front and back covers and write the blurb. It was exhausting! So much to learn!

With the learning experience behind me, I offered to publish Forever Friends ...

Lulu is the cheapest way to self-publish. You can sell books with or without an ISBN at no cost. However, for those who require assistance, Lulu provides services with editing, layout and cover design.
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dkchristi
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dkchristi


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Registration date : 2008-12-29
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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 9:06 am

I believe there are some other publishers similar to PublshAmerica where the author does not need to learn so much as is required for Lulu. Is Outskirts Press one of them? Most of them have a business model whereby the goal is for the author to buy books, but at least it is a more positive experience, more like a traditional publishing feeling.

I went through your similar experience, Shelagh. It's pitiful how enough pressure from other people can ruin one's joy. Ghost Orchid has been out since September 2009 and this year the royalties were less than stellar. You would not believe the friends and relatives who are constantly telling me to "give up the writing and do something useful with your time." Or, well, you tried it and didn't make it so quit while you're ahead. Their definition of "making it" is the level of Grisham, etc. Sometimes, I think they may be correct. Then, I get a fan letter for Ghost Orchid and I'm happy again.

My technically proficient son has torn down my pc where all my "stuff" is stored so I can't use Microsoft Word. He has totally disparaged my "hobby" to the extreme as being such a waste of time that not having access to my computer is no loss. I'm using a netbook where it's difficult not to make errors and without Microsoft Word. I'm behind on my posts to Examiner.com and Suite101; but that's a "waste of time" also because the financial return is paltry.
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alice
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alice


Number of posts : 15672
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Age : 76
Location : Redmond, WA

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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 9:20 am

DK and Shelagh,

I hear you. I finally decided I don't care! I will make writing my hobby. I don't care to sell it. I will give it away.

I don't badger people about their hobbies, I will do as I wish and so may they.
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dkchristi
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dkchristi


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 9:33 am

The reality is that commercial success comes to the few whose names we recognize and a significant number whose book sales are lucrative but in a select market that's not in the headlines.

Talented people are everywhere in local symphonies, church choirs, local art shows, mall tv stations ... some are discovered and skyrocket to fame. Others continue to use their talents to please themselves, express themselves and provide enjoyment to a limited audience.

I heard an artist interviewed on the radio yesterday. He is one of five in the nation who use glass and copper in his particular art form. He travels all year to art shows and makes a few sales to art collectors. His wife has a high paying career that supports him as he becomes known.
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alice
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alice


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 10:28 am

Our true friends will be glad we have a book and those who don't like our book or publisher can write their own books.
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dkchristi
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dkchristi


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 10:59 am

:-) I know I want your recent book. My friends have grandchildren; I keep them entertained with the the childrens' books from my colleagues here - especially the cd's for Wooffer in the car...
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luigie
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luigie


Number of posts : 266
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Age : 82
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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 12:09 pm

Gee thanks every one for such an interesting contribution.
After listening to all of you, I think that I have made up my mind to go for lulu.com, they seem to be a reliable company.
I will now do some more research on them and work out costs etc.
I believe I have a good controversial story to tell, whether I tell it well or not to a certain extent depends on my editor.
I have taken the criticism from the appraisal of the Welsh Book Council on board and am making changes to my book as and where I think it necessary. I am not making all the suggested changes especially on the controversial issues.
I have also had email contact with the author of "Silver Fox, it begins..." who has told me that I must stick to my story line and not let the editor or anyone else change it. Yes, change the grammar and change obvious errors in terminology and things stated out of context but never change the story.
I'd like to hear your opinions on that advice.
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alice
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alice


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 1:07 pm

dkchristi wrote:
:-) I know I want your recent book. My friends have grandchildren; I keep them entertained with the the childrens' books from my colleagues here - especially the cd's for Wooffer in the car...

DK,
Please check your messages--thanks! lol!
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alice
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alice


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 2:54 pm

Luigi,


Best wishes on your book. It is your book--remember that.
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joefrank
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Location : Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 2:55 pm

2/11/2011

I'm thinking of doing my photography book on LuLu too
besides the site it's on , a little more difficult to figure out.
I don't know if Create Space does photography books ?
Does anyone know , Shelagh ?


Cheers..Joe
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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 3:15 pm

Dear DK,
You do tickle my heart with your words! Wooffer is smiling, too.

I have read Alice's story The Green Purse. Her talent for writing is great. She has a lovely sense of story, of humor and timing in writing. I love that. It is a rare talent, the timing part.

I am glad that her stories are published. I await them with glee.

Love,
Betty
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Shelagh
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Shelagh


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu.com   Lulu.com EmptyMon Feb 07, 2011 3:18 pm

Yes, Joe, CreateSpace do photography books. You have to upload a PDF of not more than 100mb.
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