Published Authors

A place for budding and experienced authors to share ideas about publishing and marketing books
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  RegisterRegister  Log in  Featured MembersFeatured Members  ArticlesArticles  

 

 What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't

Go down 
+7
Shelagh
Al Stevens
vsantoro
Chelle
flashgordon
Pam
Malcolm
11 posters
AuthorMessage
Malcolm
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Malcolm


Number of posts : 1504
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : Georgia

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyWed May 28, 2008 7:53 am

I've noticed an influx of marketing and promotional ideas on the Internet in the last few years, much of it aimed at authors with POD books or with mainstream books published by smaller houses.

Most of us trying to market books are paying for each attempt out of personal funds rather from the profits of a home-based business that just happens to include books. So, deciding to spend $250 on a book trailer as I did here http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=32911741 OR several hundred dollars for one form of blog tour or another is a rather large decision.

We've all seen the advertising advice that one must show the ads (or presumably anything else) multiple times to have an impact. That truism greatly reduces what an individual can do. In my case, once I spent the $250 on the book trailer, I couldn't afford to ALSO spend money on a banner campaign, a blog tour, google ads, or the purchase of rotating ads on sites that offer them.

I read about lots of ideas that seem to make sense, but then become skeptical when the marketer can't point to any author they've helped who went from, say, sales of a couple of books every month up to a sales level of dozens or hundreds of books a month.

When I ask how my expense will translate into sales, I'm told (quite rightfully) that there can't be a one-to-one ratio of dollars spent to books sold, that I must spend more to ensure that the first money I spend has any real effect. Sure, I understand, but we're coming close here to saying we lose money on every advertising expense but that doesn't matter because all exposure is good.

Thing is, this never gets to the place where one's book is actually bringing in more than all the attempts to promote and market it.

So, what kinds of marketing (and promotion) has everyone found to have the best results? And by that, I mean, actual books sold?

What has been the worst thing you've seen or tried?

Malcolm
Back to top Go down
http://www.conjurewomanscat.com
Pam
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Pam


Number of posts : 1790
Registration date : 2008-02-01
Age : 58
Location : Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyWed May 28, 2008 5:12 pm

The best thing I've done was to organize a reading (me alone or me and one or two other authors) and invite people to hear us. 90% of people (no kidding) bought a copy of each of our books, and it cost us a few jugs of juice/coffee each time (max was $100 in total, because if they wanted something not in the jug, they went up to the coffee bar and purchased it themselves. Each of us provided the shop with a couple of posters, stack of bookmarks, and in one instance I managed to get a radio spot--a fluke). We used small local book sellers who were happy to have an event to promote in their shops. This is hard work, but on the other hand, I sold 45 books at one, 30 and then 19 without a problem at 3 readings, and no one in this city knew me from Adam. Or Eve for that matter.

The small book sellers don't really want a big stack of POD books in thier stores, so I brought books that I had bought from the publisher myself and made all the profits (better than royalties, but then again doesn't count for royalties, but who cares, right?). The bookseller did not ask for a cut, although he actually could have.

The draw for the bookseller was that I have a little soapbox that I get on about the demise of the publishing industry and issues surrounging literacy. This rant does not tie in to my book.

I have a second topic I include that is in support of members of the military, which is a theme of the book.

Nothing else I have done has had the effect of this kind of work. It's intense, but it works. I have a feeling that on a larger scale it will work also. I'll let you know!

pirate
Back to top Go down
http://www.mvpi.org
Malcolm
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Malcolm


Number of posts : 1504
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : Georgia

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu May 29, 2008 9:20 am

Sounds like a real cool idea, Pam. Probably fun, too. I'd be more willing to cut the store in on the profits.

Yes, you're right, the stores don't want POD books stacked up there because few people will buy them other than during an event.

Thanks for the idea.

Malcolm
Back to top Go down
http://www.conjurewomanscat.com
Pam
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Pam


Number of posts : 1790
Registration date : 2008-02-01
Age : 58
Location : Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu May 29, 2008 9:27 am

You are very welcome. I'm looking forward to what others here are up to as well...every little bit helps, and a few ideas to save a bunch of money can't hurt.
Very Happy
Back to top Go down
http://www.mvpi.org
flashgordon
Four Star Member
Four Star Member



Number of posts : 241
Registration date : 2008-01-11

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu May 29, 2008 12:59 pm

You ask a tough question. You really only know what kinds of marketing works when it does, right? I tend to do mostly free marketing - press releases, SEO for the internet, Amazon tweaking, etc. I do print flyers for my books, which I post any and everywhere. I figure the .08 cents is worth it. I also printed some "free" postcards via VistaPrint (I only paid shipping).

Otherwise, author signings are a great boon. That and getting friends and family to talk about it is another great method - if they tell 6 people, those 6 tell 6 more, pretty soon you've got a very large potential readership.
Back to top Go down
http://newgreatbooks.blogspot.com
Malcolm
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Malcolm


Number of posts : 1504
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : Georgia

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyFri May 30, 2008 1:49 pm

Thanks, Flash, good to hear that you've found a winning approach! The word of mouth part of it is great, once you prime the pump and get it started.

Malcolm
Back to top Go down
http://www.conjurewomanscat.com
Chelle
One Star Member
One Star Member



Number of posts : 37
Registration date : 2008-05-04
Age : 69
Location : northeast US

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyMon Jun 02, 2008 9:52 am

Hi Malcolm,

My publisher is a small indie and does help with promotion, which of course is a big boon to me. However since I have the most stake in my book(s), I do a lot to promote as well.

Use of free press releases is fantastic, as is word of mouth. I also make sure to send my own press releases to local media and definitely play up the local angle. Also, send press releases to any organizations that migfht have a specific interest in a topic included in your book.

Good luck.

-Chelle
Back to top Go down
http://chellecordero.blogspot.com/
vsantoro

vsantoro


Number of posts : 4
Registration date : 2010-01-26
Location : Tarpon Springs FL

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyTue Jan 26, 2010 12:37 pm

Hi Malcolm,
You have to be careful what you invest in. Also, any tool acquired is only as good the marketing behind it. Some tips:

1. You can distribute your book trailer for free on Youtube and other video directories. Check with the book trailer developer to ensure that you have the correct format for distribution.

2. When you distribute the video, you have to fill out the title and description for the video. Include a good keyword search phrase in the title and begin the description with your URL including the http://www.

2b. If you're not sure what keyword phrase to use, do a search on Youtube for a similar topic and see which videos are in the top positions. Use the same phrase in both your title, description and keyword tags.

Its a little work but it is free and can attract traffic to your book's website.

Hope this helps!
Michael
Back to top Go down
http://www.authorinterns.com
Malcolm
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Malcolm


Number of posts : 1504
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : Georgia

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyTue Jan 26, 2010 1:45 pm

Those are good tips for trailers.

Malcolm
Back to top Go down
http://www.conjurewomanscat.com
Al Stevens
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Al Stevens


Number of posts : 1727
Registration date : 2010-05-11
Location : Florida

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 10, 2010 7:40 am

Reviving an old thread here. I originally posted this message in the Kindle author's discussion group a while back in a thread about what works and what doesn't.

-----------------------

Well, first we have to assume that your book is as good as you think it is, that readers will indeed like it. If you wrote a gold-plated turkey, nothing works, not even a halftime Superbowl ad.

Paid advertising, that's what works. You want people to buy your book? Pony up some bucks and buy some credibility.

Do what the big dogs do.

Find a medium that caters to your targeted readership, and buy a series of ads. Not classifieds, but display ads. It costs money, maybe a lot of money, but it works.

Will it make back its investment? Maybe not at first, but, if you persist, particularly with additional titles, eventually it should.

If you are not so inclined, you might need the services of a PR firm.

Some will argue that this is an unrealistic approach, that the average indie author cannot afford it. Actually, it is the only realistic approach. You want to be a successful author? Pay the dues. It's a lot more than just writing the book.

Writing the book is the easy part.

-----------------------------

The discussion on the other group was about a desire for big sales, not just selling a few copies here and there. It was about making a living.

This approach worked for me when I started publishing in the 1980s. My publisher was a small Indie publishing house in Seattle before "Indie" was anything other than the nickname for a movie hero. His imprint was later sold, has passed hands several times, and is now owned by Wiley. But the little guy I wrote for used conventional advertising to promote the books. And it worked.
Back to top Go down
http://alstevens.blogspot.com
Shelagh
Admin
Admin
Shelagh


Number of posts : 12662
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : UK

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 10, 2010 8:02 am

It's good to know that these old threads are still being read.
Back to top Go down
http://shelaghwatkins.co.uk
Malcolm
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Malcolm


Number of posts : 1504
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : Georgia

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 17, 2010 1:37 pm

I can't see any author paying for advertising when PR is free. Display ads cost a mint. I would have to sell 500 copies of my book just to pay for one insertion of a tiny black and white ad in my metro paper.

My presumption is that the ad will sell no copies because that is not what the big dogs do. You won't see John Grisham and Nora Roberts and James Patterson shelling out a couple of grand for a tiny ad in a paper.

Advertising is a good way to go broke.

Of course, if a person can make it work, then that's something to talk about.

Malcolm
Back to top Go down
http://www.conjurewomanscat.com
Al Stevens
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Al Stevens


Number of posts : 1727
Registration date : 2010-05-11
Location : Florida

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 17, 2010 2:02 pm

PR is okay, too. If you can get it. And most effective PR isn't free. You need to pay an expert to make it work.

Targeted advertising is, however, still the most effective way to reach a marketplace. Assuming you have something they would want to buy.

Famous authors don't have to do it because they automatically get reviewed and get space on the chain shelves. And their publishers promote the heck out of their new works. TV ads, even.

By "big dogs" I don't mean famous authors. I mean traditional publishers. If you are self-publishing, you have to seem to be credible and viable. Which means, do what the big dogs do.

It's easy to convince yourself that spending money is not the best choice for promoting your work. All the better for those who are willing to take a chance. They get a bigger bite of the apple.

The land of Indie authordom is heavily populated with writers who are wondering why the land of readerdom is not beating a path to buy their books.
Back to top Go down
http://alstevens.blogspot.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
dkchristi


Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 17, 2010 4:05 pm

I have one example that might shed a little insight. My book, Ghost Orchid, is about a rare and endangered ghost orchid that is loved by many orchid growers because it is nearly impossible to grow domestically and against the law to take from its natural habitat. Thus, it is a challenging little flower.

Ghost Orchid also promotes the protection of environmental habitat and its necessity to the human spirit.

American Orchid Society has an exquisite monthly magazine. One page has nine boxes called the Marketplace. I bought an ad for $175. The beautiful ad was eye-catching, aimed at a receptive audience and included the blurb that anyone purchasing Ghost Orchid based on that ad could simply email me and I'd contribute $1 to AOS.

1. My ad was beautiful and designed by the magazine design team.
2. My ad was in a target market magazine, very visible and widely distributed nationally and internationally.
3. I incorporated a way to track sales from the specific ad.

Also, I have it on good authority that Ghost Orchid is an enjoyable read for just about anyone over the age of 13 with themes of spirituality, love, family and specifically, protecting the habitat for beautiful flora and fauna.

Perfection, right? I received one email (even included a faxed copy of the Amazon sale) asking for my $1 contribution to AOS.

I justified the $175 ad as a donation. I think I did a lot of things right; however, either no one purchased the book (with one exception) based on the ad, or only one person sent an email.

I still think my concept was right; it just needs further refinement.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
Al Stevens
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Al Stevens


Number of posts : 1727
Registration date : 2010-05-11
Location : Florida

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 17, 2010 5:36 pm

Conventional wisdom advises that an advertising campaign needs multiple exposure--several successive appearances before the buying public considers it to be viable.

When you talk to ad salespersons at publications, keep in mind that their job is to sell ads. Their advice comes with a strong bias.
Back to top Go down
http://alstevens.blogspot.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
dkchristi


Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 17, 2010 6:19 pm

http://firstchapterplus.com/ Here is a new advertising piece that purportedly goes to libraries, bookstores, reviewers, publishers, authors - the gamut (I haven't seen the mailing list.)

I did advertise for $15 for its multiple bookcover page for one issue. There is no way to track whether it resulted in the exposure sought. There is annecdotal evidence that some of the authors feel it is a good idea for them; the $15 for the small add isn't much. However, there are many sites like this on the internet at no cost -

I admire those who are promoting advertising media to "us." Another group are those with the multiple "book awards" in Hollywood, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Frankfurt, London and any other town where a few writers gather for the princely entry sum of $50-$75.

Another solicitation I received is an ebook of 250 businesses - at $97 a pop to be listed. Right! Mass free distribution of the book is promised.....
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
dkchristi


Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 17, 2010 6:22 pm

But the most persistent is the daily sales pitch from PA. They must pay somebody a bonus for each scheme to sell books to the PA authors that they cook up, no matter how ridiculous.

There's a built-in email list of 50,000 authors thrilled (for the most part ) that they have a published book. How about that as a captive audience?
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
Malcolm
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Malcolm


Number of posts : 1504
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : Georgia

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 17, 2010 6:57 pm

Yes, repeated exposure is certainly a key. It's not easy to get because it costs so much. Plus, in fiction, people buy books based on the author's name and the buzz they're hearing about it. One challenge here is trying to avoid looking like small potatoes. I don't mean that in a vain way, but if we place ads that look like they were placed by an author who isn't already well known, they stand out like a sore thumb unless they're really well done and in exactly the right place.

Anything that screams THIS IS A SELF-PUBLISHED AUTHOR WHO CAN'T AFFORD 'REAL ADVERTISING' is quite often going to turn readers away.

I don't dispute the value of ads. But when I consider that small press and self-published authors are up against NY publisher campaigns with $100,000+ budgets, it's very hard to justify taking the rent money and spending $1,000 of it for one ad when one knows full well it will be a drop in the bucket and won't pay for itself in resulting sales.

As anyone here done advertising that paid for itself?

Malcolm
Back to top Go down
http://www.conjurewomanscat.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
dkchristi


Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 17, 2010 8:09 pm

Not me.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Abe F. March


Number of posts : 10768
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 85
Location : Germany

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyThu Jun 17, 2010 10:33 pm

dkchristi wrote:
But the most persistent is the daily sales pitch from PA. They must pay somebody a bonus for each scheme to sell books to the PA authors that they cook up, no matter how ridiculous.

There's a built-in email list of 50,000 authors thrilled (for the most part ) that they have a published book. How about that as a captive audience?

They have a source of gold with their database of authors. Multiple sales to a small percentage of authors beats sending books to sit on store shelves. I'm wondering how long it will take before other publishers follow their lead.
Back to top Go down
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
dkchristi


Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyFri Jun 18, 2010 5:53 am

Some of the other self-publish contracts include the purchase of a minimum number of books by the author.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
Alexandermerow
One Star Member
One Star Member
Alexandermerow


Number of posts : 26
Registration date : 2011-03-28
Age : 45
Location : Berlin

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyWed Mar 30, 2011 3:27 pm

I try to make some readings in my hometown and the near area, but the most importance has the internet - in my eyes. The internet is the best place for "small authors" like me to publish something.
Back to top Go down
http://www.alexander-merow.de.tl
AnnHanson

AnnHanson


Number of posts : 5
Registration date : 2012-07-16
Age : 38
Location : Germany

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyMon Aug 13, 2012 1:10 pm

The internet is the most cost effective method of advertising. Don't forget the power of social media - Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn - free advertising that reaches thousands of people in an instant. The only thing to remember is that promotion costs a lot - either time or money - you choose. It requires patience, research and at least 14 hours a day spent in front of the computer promoting, writing articles and socializing.
Another way is to make a press release - it costs somewhere in the vicinity of $1000 but can save you a lot of time!
Another thing that works is having flyers printed at home and have them distributed in front of libraries.

Hope this helps,

Best wishes,
Ana
Back to top Go down
http://www.books-design.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
dkchristi


Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't EmptyMon Aug 13, 2012 1:38 pm

Your ideas are great. Thanks again.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
Sponsored content





What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty
PostSubject: Re: What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't   What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't Empty

Back to top Go down
 
What Kind of Marketing Works and What Doesn't
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Now here's the kind of marketing we all want
» How Politics works
» Funny How The Brain Works
» How real publishing works
» Small marketplace for works of fantasy

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Published Authors :: Marketing :: Marketing Problems-
Jump to: