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 Getting Nowhere

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E. Don Harpe
labond
Al Stevens
dkchristi
Abe F. March
Shelagh
LC
Betty Fasig
Cynthia Van Auken
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Cynthia Van Auken
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Cynthia Van Auken


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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyTue Sep 28, 2010 4:05 pm

So I've been trying to contact people like crazy... even doing follow-ups, but no one is responding to me. I've contacted quiet a few reviewers, my local newspaper, and I've tried speaking with the PR lady at a local library. I'm getting no where. I was able to get my book in a few local libraries and some bookstores, but as far as getting the word into the newspaper or setting up more author events, it's been a nightmare. I'm so frustrated. What do I need to do?
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Betty Fasig
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyTue Sep 28, 2010 4:47 pm

Dear Cynthia,

I feel so sorry for your frustration. I have been there, still am. Most everyone here has been there, knocking their head against a stone wall. After doing everything possible, spending lots of money, and getting no where at all, I relaxed. Talk to the people here on this message board about your hopes and dreams. There is good advice here.

Love,
Betty
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Cynthia Van Auken
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyTue Sep 28, 2010 5:39 pm

Thanks Betty. I've actually been getting a lot of really good advice. Today I wrote five emails to different reviewers, so hopefully soon I'll have a review. There's one person currently reading it who'll write one, but I haven't heard from her in a while.

The thing that irks me the most is that I ordered all these books because a lot of people said they'd buy them, but never did. I sold half, most of which went to my parents and in-laws. I guess I'm just bumbed because my closest friends haven't taken the time to read it...

But enough woe-is-me. I'm trying to be proactive. Twitter is helping a lot and so is author's den. If I can get interest up through internet, maybe that's the way to go.
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LC
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LC


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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyTue Sep 28, 2010 9:21 pm

Quote :
What do I need to do?

You need to sell your book to a publisher with distribution. Black Rose doesn't have it. You would have seen that if you had visited a library as part of your research to see which publishers in your genre have books on the shelves. My guess is the only time you walked into a bookstore or library was when you were trying to get them to buy your book. Which authors shouldn't be doing, btw.

It's a shame that there is so much misinformation out there -much of it put out by these shitty little "publishers"- that tells authors they have to market their book, contact reviewers and PR people themselves, buy water bottles and collector cards, etc., etc. It's compounded by all the misinformation given by SEO and other marketers selling services to the self-published/small press population.

About your friends not buying your book. Why should they? Seriously. People buy books in the genre they're interested in. When you hit your friends and family up to buy your book, you put yourself in the same category as Pampered Chef and other MLM sellers. Do you like being hit up for stuff you don't need?

My advice is to ditch this book, as it's dead in the water, and try to sell your next one to a publisher with distribution. Sorry to rain on your parade but you aren't going anywhere with Black Rose.

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Shelagh
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Sep 29, 2010 1:16 am

Hi Cynthia,

The words may seem harsh from LC, and upsetting to you. The advice is as good as you will get on the publishing business. Years ago, works by aspiring authors never saw the light of day. That did not stop people writing. The avenues for sharing their work were small and revolved around local writing groups, where writers could discuss works in progress and learn from one another. With the advances in technology and the introduction of the Internet, there was a ready made market for alternative publishers. This created a boom in the number of titles available online. As LC says, these books give authors an opening but they do not sell in large quantities.

Follow LC's advice, use this experience to improve. Write a better novel. Find a better publisher. See your present book as the first step and move onto the second rung of the ladder.
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LC
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Sep 29, 2010 5:47 am

Quote :
With the advances in technology and the introduction of the Internet, there was a ready made market for alternative publishers.

The bolded part is beautifully succinct. A market for publishers. Not for authors.

We are awash in micro-businesses that call themselves publishers, but are really just glorified printers. That some of their authors have a modicum of success getting a book on a shelf after lots of personal effort doesn't negate that they really market to authors.

And put yourself in a library or bookstore buyer's shoes. It used to be that all they dealt with were sales reps from houses that had catalogs with hundreds (or thousands) of titles. Now they are swamped with "onesies and twosies" requests -individual authors from Lulu and every other vanity press wanting shelf space, and micro-businesses purporting to be publishers, with their small catalogs of marginal titles. Of course they avoid such. There isn't enough time in the day. An analogy would be how you yourself deal with the daily spam in your mailbox and pop-up ads.
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Cynthia Van Auken
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 5:01 am

Quote :
About your friends not buying your book. Why should they?

I'm not ignorant. I understand people aren't going to read a book outside their genre. That's why I'm not heartbroken that my dad hasn't read it. It's those people who put up a front and make a big deal about wanting to read my book that annoy me. Just tell me the truth that it's not your thing, it's not going to hurt my feelings.

Quote :
You would have seen that if you had visited a library as part of your research to see which publishers in your genre have books on the shelves

Did that. I knew that Black Rose Writing was small press going in, but my husband and I decided it was a step in the door at least. I'm not unhappy with my publisher, I really like how everything turned out. Besides, I've learned a lot from the experience. Nothing risked nothing gained. And I am working on several other novels, when I get time. A lot depends on my job, seeing as I'm a full time photographer, I am working night and day. I don't really have a set schedule (another reason we went with small press).

But here's an update since I last posted:

I recieved a review from Patty Foltz of Way2KoolDesigns.com

Quote :
If I could give this book six stars I would. It is right up there with Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. One of the best fantasy Sci-Fi books I have ever read.

I have Kira Moody of teensreadtoo.com also writing a review.

I have a book signing on Oct 17 at a high traffic area. And the PR lady from the library got back with me. She said she wants me to speak at their Teen Days. And I'm going to be entering the 2011 Indie Book Awards.
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LC
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LC


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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 9:51 am

Cynthia, I'm sure your book is fine, and that you will have pockets of success while self-marketing it. What I'm saying is that if your intent was to get your feet a little bit wet and learn a bit about book writing, publishing, and marketing, then sure, this experience will meet that. However, you used the phrase, "step in the door." What door? Black Rose isn't a "small press," it's a glorified printer, and won't count as a writing credit in the houses whose doors you think you're stepping into.

You also mentioned a lack of a set schedule as choosing a small press. I don't understand the relationship. One's schedule has nothing to do with choice of publisher. In fact, if you are busy with work and other obligations, a big press will fit your schedule better, because it won't have the kind of marketing expectations a small one might.
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Abe F. March
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 10:12 am

Cynthia,
I feel your frustration. The learning curve gets bigger.
My advice is to seek professional help. If you consider time as money, you will spend much money in the learning process.
There is no easy way and there is always a risk, even with professional help. They don't gurantee anything, but they do know what doesn't work.
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dkchristi
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 10:28 am

If writing is your goal, then no disappointments will stop you. You will continue to write, to learn and to seek the publishing venue that will have the distribution and connections to take you where you want to go. The competition is stiff. Compare your experience to any talent - often seen selling their own cd's at street fairs and flea markets. The combination of factors to make a marketing success is varied and sprinkled with luck and talent.

One gallery showing does not an artist make. One concert does not make a band famous. Many great, classical trained musicians and singers languish in small town symphony orchestras for the sheer love of their chosen career.

My niece's uncle is "making a fortune" according to her, selling his self-published book at seminars where he lectures on overcoming conflicts in the workplace. I'm not sure what kind of a "fortune" she means - he's totally unknown outside his little town; but maybe the entire population has bought his book.

You define your own success. When the struggle for fame and fortune looks too difficult, your goals may change. If you are compelled to seek your dream without obstacles stopping you, then you will struggle onward, regardless of the result.

Only you know how important this step in your life may be. For some, the struggle is too much, the competition too daunting, the rejection to hard to overcome. For others, these challenges excite them, raise their adrenalin and inspire them to continue.

As they say at 12 step meetings for addicts (and striving against all odds sometimes feels like an addiction), take what you hear here that works for you and leave the rest. Know the words are given from many experiences and backgrounds and carry the merit of the source.

Congratulations on small successes, they may add up to what you seek. I hope so.
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Al Stevens
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 3:27 pm

Despite their promises, friends and relatives of an author do not buy the author's books. They expect you to give them one, personally autographed to them, so they can put it on the coffee table and brag that they know a published author. Some of them might even read the book.
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Al Stevens
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 3:30 pm

I was rolling up the Interstate on Monday listening to MSNBC on the XMRadio. I heard an ad for a new James Patterson book. I couldn't see the video, of course, so I don't know what the ad shows. But it mentions amazon.com. I don't know who paid for the ad, amazon, the publisher, or Patterson himself.

Maybe that's what you need to do. I've suggested such measures in the past on author-based discussion groups and got mostly hooted out of the room. The cost was the main complaint. Well, if such an ad will sell enough of Patterson's books to pay for itself, why won't it sell yours?
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Al Stevens
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 3:32 pm

(It isn't easy to roll up an Interstate. All that macadam and concrete.)
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Shelagh
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Oct 06, 2010 4:21 pm

Laughing Laughing Laughing
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labond

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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 7:46 am

I can see L C's point about finding a publishing path where the publisher does the foot work and marketing. I have found the POD path to be a very difficult one to tread. But a traditional publisher takes me seriously, that is what I will continue to do.

In light of a recent visit to a local supermarket and the sight of dozens of 'novels' written by celebrities, I feel cynical about the choices publishers make in taking on authors. There are many POD and small press authors who could write the socks off of any celebrity author, but they are not given the same opportunities.

In light of that maybe the answer is to get yourself on a reality TV show, become a celebrity and use it as a springboard for promoting your books! (Only joking)
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dkchristi
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 9:18 am

Not a joke at all. I have promoted that approach for a long time. I often thought I missed my boat when I was a political intern in Washington, D.C., the only female in that position at that time. The possibilities were endless - but mother taught me better.

I was in the dollar store the other day; they had a new shipment of "remainders" for a dollar. They included books by Evanovich, Amy Tan and by Phil McGraw's wife. At least with a small press your book doesn't end up at the dollar store...small consolation :-)


Last edited by dkchristi on Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LC
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyTue Oct 12, 2010 4:52 pm

Quote :
In light of a recent visit to a local supermarket and the sight of dozens of 'novels' written by celebrities, I feel cynical about the choices publishers make in taking on authors. There are many POD and small press authors who could write the socks off of any celebrity author, but they are not given the same opportunities.

Well, in all fairness, people aren't buying celeb books for literary greatness, but for insights into the celeb's life and thoughts. I don't begrudge that. If someone reaches the level of notoreity and fame that breaking into TV offers, good for them. Those were their dues, and they paid them.

Re the dollar bin, I don't see why ending up there is such a bad thing. Most everything goes on sale eventually. The authors were paid.
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E. Don Harpe
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Mar 14, 2012 9:42 am

Oh, and Cynthia, LC's advice may be great and all that, but so far as I know she's always been afraid to try her hand at writing fiction and trying to get it punlished. Her thing seems to be textbooks, and as such, she is hardly an expert on publishing fiction. To me, it's always seemed that she's just a bit jealous of those who do write fiction, and I've never seen anything from her other than negative posts about it.

It would indeed be great to find a major publisher who will do all the things that most of us would like our publisher to do, but the fact is that most people a book or two will never find one, and that shouldn't keep you from writing, or from putting your books out there any way you can.

That's what a lot of us do, and while we aren't considered "successful" by some people, at least we have the courage to write fiction, and to see what we can do with it. Some don't have that courage, and won't take a step outside their own comfort zone. I don't pay them a lot of attention.

Hang in there. There's nothing wrong with pursuing your dream in every way that you can.
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alj
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Mar 14, 2012 9:46 am

e. Don said:

Quote :
That's what a lot of us do, and while we aren't considered "successful" by some people, at least we have the courage to write fiction, and to see what we can do with it. Some don't have that courage, and won't take a step outside their own comfort zone. I don't pay them a lot of attention.

Getting Nowhere 950944

Ann
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dkchristi
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Mar 14, 2012 2:48 pm

I started writing when I was very young. It was always my dream to write a novel. I was an editor for a big 10 CPA firm in South Korea, famous in some circles for grant and curricula writing, wrote technical journal articles and technical manuals and lots of public relations news releases and newspaper stories. I kept journals. Finally, in 1988, I had time to start writing for real and that novel was published in 2006 with Publish America. A friend referred me and I had done no research. I was thrilled! Their staff treated me like I was truly a novelist. It wasn't until people started telling me what a fool I was that I learned I was really not successful at all, just one more patsy to a scam - or was I? I accomplished more than many who leave their novels in their drawers and never finish them. My work was not perfect, but it was a "first novel" and pretty well received by many. It gave me the courage to continue and publish with a small press, L & L Dreamspell, my second novel, Ghost Orchid, a delightful story appreciated by many and having its "best selling" moments. Both novels led to a wonderful forum experience and challenges to my brain and thoughts over the years. Today, I am writing four articles a month for a monthly newsprint magazine, http://swspotlight.com Southwest Spotlight (started at one and have been promoted to four) that has given me a great lot of fun in my community and broadened my learning experience further. Am I successful? I still struggle financially because I made a career mistake that left me unemployed at a difficult age and time in this economy and my income from writing meets some basic needs expenses, but has not taken me to those fields of fame and fortune. I have accomplished my goal - I wrote not one but two novels - and I am a journalist by default. I give talks for local organizations and am really quite a professional platform speaker (from years of it in my previous life) so I hope for more speaking engagements about the sex, myth and magic of the ghost orchid, saving natural habitats and a long list of topics at my web site. There are many avenues that open with the exposure one experiences in taking the chance to publish. Some may lead to recognizable fame and fortune; others may lead to personal feelings of success that are not measured except in the heart.


Last edited by dkchristi on Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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alj
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Mar 14, 2012 3:20 pm

The PA situation is complex and controversial, but I, personally, cannot complain.

I was warned from the time I started writing my book that It did not have a broad enough audience for a major publisher to pick it up. I tried the university press route, then, and got some of the most lovely rejections - really - lovely.

I happened onto the PA website, and got excited. The excitement ebbed after I read some of the criticisms. I almost didn't use them. I thought about it for a while and continued to read bits and pieces of the talk that it was a scam, and went back and reread the offers on the website, and decided that many of the complaints seemed a bit like sour grapes. I knew that, while my book had a limited market, that market was large enough to bring in a moderate amount, just from publicizing it in a few locations. I decided to go for it and I'm glad that I did.

My book was not fiction. I had an audience. I was aware of the limitations at PA and had no illusions.

A Myth in Action: The Heroic Life of Audie Murphy was purchased and read by his devoted fans, was well reviewed, and, a few times, for a few weeks at a time, it was the best-selling book-in-print on Audie Murphy (OK, so there were never many more than a dozen choices in print) and twice, for a few days, it was listed among the top 10 PA books at Amazon.

Like DK, that book led me to several websites where I made some close cyber-friends, and support for my own dream of writing fiction.

So far, my fiction work has not been widely read (to say the least) but I am beginning to get it out there, and I still have lots of ideas for getting it better known, and for finishing the Saga.

What is most important to me is that I feel like I am doing what I am supposed to be doing.

Ann
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dkchristi
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyWed Mar 14, 2012 6:11 pm

Ann, that's success!
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Victor D. Lopez
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Getting Nowhere Empty
PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyFri Mar 23, 2012 10:06 am

As always, there is much wisdom in our colleague's responses. D.K.'s post in particular resonates and is worthy of careful re-reading.

Each of us has to answer answer a fundamental question to no one but ourselves: "Why do we write and seek to share our work?" If the answer is "because I seek fame and fortune," the best advice I can give is to buy lottery tickets instead--there is a much higher chance of hitting the jackpot than gaining national or international recognition for our work for any new and/or unknown writer. This is true for all of the arts and has always been so. Music, dance, painting, sculpture, and on and on. There is no minimum wage for artistic endeavors, no guaranteed employment and no hiring preferences. The world is full of incredibly talented people who labor in obscurity and whose work will never be recognized. The only thing more tragic than this simple truth is to allow it to dissuade us from adding our individual voice, gift and point of view to the universal choir regardless of whether it ever manages to rise above the universal din. That said, we'd better have a "day job" to allow us the freedom to join the choir and keep food on the table and a roof over our heads--at least until the day comes when our particular voice is recognized, prized and properly rewarded. (In my case, I have neither the illusion nor the desire to ever quit my day job which brings its own enormous joy. I would teach for food. I would write even were I starving for want of it.)

I write because have to; I can no more stop writing than I can stop breathing--ceasing either activity would have the same effect. My non fiction paid the mortgage for many years and is still an important income source for which I am very grateful. My fiction and poetry may pay for a couple of bottles of Rioja wine--a case at most if I have a really, really good month. It will never put food on my table, at least not with my current level of promotion and marketing (read: none). The value to me, though, is not measured by that yardstick. I can bill my time as a lawyer at $400 an hour and have more clients than I can serve if I want to practice law on a part time basis. I choose instead to write. On the economic front the scales will never even out. Who cares? My wife and I do just fine. My writing feeds my soul and no amount of money would replace that particular form of nourishment.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyFri Mar 23, 2012 11:22 am

Good insights, Victor.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Getting Nowhere   Getting Nowhere EmptyFri Mar 23, 2012 3:46 pm

Yes, I write because I must. Period.
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