Nature of God

A while back I got to thinking about the nature of god. I wondered who or what this entity we call god really is. As I tought, I wondered what it was that would have all the properties of god. I found that only one thing matched all the properties and that is the sum total of everything. The idea that god and the universe are one and the same entity actually makes a lot of sense if one thinks about it. It is said that god is all powerful and what could be more powerful than the sum total of everything that ever was, is and ever will be? It is said that god is everywhere and if he is everything, then by defult, he must be everywhere. It is said that god always has and always will exist, properties that can also be atributed to the sum total of everything (I believe the universe is cyclical not linnier). It is said that god created everything and if he is everything, then he is the source of everything. It sounds redundant, but it does make logical sense (everything created everything else). In short that is my view of god, it is nicely summed up by the latin phrase "universum est deus", which translates as "the universe is god" While I am writing on the subject of god, I must mention that there is one view of god I strongly disagree with, and that is the fundamentalist view. Religious fundamentalists seem to believe that god is just "itching" for people to make mistakes (sins) so he can punish them for all eternity, even for the slightest infraction. Not only that, but they (the fundamentalists) call that eternal punishment a form of justice. In my mind, eternal punishment is not justice, it is pure vengence. Religious fundamentalists also seem to believe that one cannot be "saved" by their deeds, but only by faith. So, according to that view, only membership in a particular religious sect and belief without the slightest question can get one into heaven. Personally, I think actions speak louder than words. The Idea that god is like a man in the sky who is a combination of a Middle-Eastern dictator and Santa Clause, I do not agree with.

I think that for me, your last sentence nailed it Gordon. I don't think that God is a man (or woman) at all. The concept of a divine being is a complex one and is going to be interpreted in the way that fits with people's lives. I do not think that means making God in our image, nor is it a matter of us making ourselves in God's image.
It's complicated, and so I think that it is really neat that you are looking into it and trying to sort it all out. All the best for your journey.

From the Book of James: "Faith without works is dead." But this is the book Martin Luther wanted to kick out of his version of the New Testament.

You might want to stretch your boundaries and look at how God is defined in the texts of faiths beyond Christianity. Even though the West tends to consider them non-deistic, Buddhism and Hinduism have a concept of "the One" (pretty much as you're describing that First Principle thing); for Muslims and Baha'is, God is more like transcendent essence or genderless spirit (does not incarnate but can manifest).

Very important questions to ask, and lots of food for thought if you're a writer. I think world-development is really important and that culture and religion are an integral part of making your world real if you do spec fiction at all.
Good luck on the path!
Karen
www.chaliceoflife.com

Gordon,
I think you have a good handle on the "God" thing. I think once one separates religious philosophy from the study of religion, one can see things more clearly.
I believe there is a Universal Intelligence that can be referred to as God. And Gordon, I grew up with the "Fear of God" pounded into me. That stigma haunts and it is a terrible way in which to live.
(Hell, damnation and punishment.)

Abe,

Many of us were reared under that model to one degree or another. Friends of mine had nightmares for years because of the extreme scare tactics used in the churches they went to.

Fortunately, my church did not focus on fire and brimstone. Then, as now, I never could keep my mouth shut, so I would have told the minister he was really full of it had he tried to convince us that the world was going to call into the sun any second (like some folks were told) and that none of us could escape without being a thousand percent better than we were.

The stigma haunts me because of what I saw it doing to my friends and what I see it doing to the country when such feelings are used as rationale for public policy.

Malcolm

The subject of creation and death continues to be debated. I think it is fair to say that the questions of how we come to exist and where we go when we die has entered the mind of every human. Having a theory for hope of a life hereafter has fueled the philosophy of religion. History records the heated debates of this question and the form/method of worship to achieve that end. And then they fought over these theories killing those who didn’t believe the way they thought one should. Heretics being burned at the stake was mild compared to the massacres carried out to get rid of the infidel.
The underlying currents still exist and are manifested in other ways. Politics and religion go hand in hand – and that is happening in America as well.

History, as you say, is filled with examples of pograms and purges. What I never "get" is why people care so much about what others believe as long as it's a private matter.

Malcolm

There is a difference between the existence of God and faith. It is possible (and I think that Abe does) to believe in a Universal force (or intelligence) without following a faith. It is also possible to follow a faith with little or no understanding of how God might exist.

Religions were and still are devised to instil some kind of moral guidance that might otherwise be missing from a child's life. It is easy to see how fear became a handy weapon for teachers of moral education.

Strength in numbers applies as much to religious groups as it does to armies and therein lies the power of religions and their leaders need to convert non-believers over the centuries. Somewhere in the desire to become ever more powerful, religions lose their way.

Just to be clear, when I say god is the universe, what I mean is that god is the totality of existance, not just the visible cosmos, including any and all possible parallel universes. God in my view is everything that ever was, everything that is, and everything that is yet to come. I think time is cyclical, like a giant loop, rather than like a streight line. People talk about the begining or the end of time, but if there actually was a beginning, there would have to be a before the beginning and if there was a beginning of time, there would have been no time before the beginning, therefore there could not have been a before the beginning and thus there could not have been a beginning (I call this the before the beginning paradox). The beginning and the end of time are the same point and not only are they the same point, they are every point in time. I just don't buy into the end times stuff a lot of preachers would like to have us believe. They thought the world was going to end in the year 1000 and it didn't. They thought the same thing about the year 2000 and any number of other years, but the world is still here. Now people seem to think the world will end in 2012, but if the past indicates anything about the future, the world will probably still be here on January 1, 2013. I don't believe this end of time garbage some preachers are trying to sell.

I do not believe those things about the end of the world are for us to decide. Those are decisions in God's realm. I also think we're the ones with the time issues, and God has neither a watch nor a calendar.

Good thoughts Gordon.

Carol

I often wondered how these bible people ignore the written word concerning the end as recorded in Mark 13:32. "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man no not the angels which are in heaven neither the son but the father."
It is always so convenient to ignore one biblical statement while promoting another scripture that fits ones agenda.

For god the concepts of time and space do not apply. God exists in all places at all times. It would be nice if people would focus on making this world a better place rather than worring about the end of the world.

Abe,

I like the Bible verse and believe it completely. I think sometimes humans just can't stand not feeling in control. But sometimes it is so comforting to just "let go and let God," a sort of blessed surrender to an almighty being

Carol

People like certainty, but the only thing we can be completely certain of in this world is the certainty of uncertainty. People just need to accept that we cannot know everything and that we cannot control everything.

Very interesting topic. Glad I just believe in "The Big Sleep."

... not the "Big Bang"

I don't believe the big bang was the beginning. I think the big bang is simply a point in an endless cycle. If there was a beginning there would have to be a before the beginning and if nothing, not even time existed before the beginning, there could not be a before the beginning and thus there could not be a beginning.

You can't get anything from nothing ... but if something exists you can create something else from it. The "Big Bang" was the creation of the universe not the creation of matter or time. Both of those had to exist already.

Shelagh's right. The "Big Bang" has more scientifc support than any other theory. The "universal intelligence" may have set it off. Certainly something caused it. Believing in fairy tales can make nice stories but lack credibility.
I think Dick got as good a theory as needed. Believing in the big sleep can be comforting. Believing in a nightmare certainly doesn't sound comforting.

So does anybody know what came right after the Big Bang?

It looks as if the current cycle of the universe began at the big bang so before the big bang would be the end of the previous cycle. By the way, the big bang theory does not tell us about how the universe came to be. It tells us about what happened a few tiny fractions of a second after the universe began expanding from a tiny point. This is an expansion of space itself, not simply an expansion into empty space. I think time has no beginning and no end. I think it's like a big loop and the cycle repetes infinately. In my view, every single point in time could be considered both the beginning and the end of time, just like every point on a circle can be consiedred the beginning and the end of the circle.

Time exists in our minds as well as in reality. If we are waiting for something important, time drags; if we are late for something, time speeds up. We measure time to help to live in a more ordered world. If you want to make an appointment, you are not asked, "Can you come tomorrow?" but "Are you available at two-thirty tomorrow afternoon?"

If we are walking to an appointment we allow enough time to allow us to make the appointment on time. If we go by car, we estimate the time it would take without any hold-ups. Then we arrive late.

Golfers spend five hours at the glof course and then expect to be able to drive home in minutes and become very agitated if they can't. Our concept of time depends on what we are doing at the time.

The search for answers is perpetual. If we look at the history of discoveries we should realize that our opinions are based on what is known and much conjecture. We use some form of rationale to arrive at conclusions - something that makes sense to us. Since no one knows for sure, the search for truth will continue.
I have my theory about the universe and an intelligence that governs it that I call God. It is my theory. I cannot prove it.
My beliefs are based on energy and the fact energy never dies. I am told that the body consists of energy. That being the case, when the body dies the energy leaves and goes somewhere. From that point comes more conjecture.
All of it is interesting because it affects all of us.

lin wrote:

So does anybody know what came right after the Big Bang?

Yes, a small thud.

God cannot have a nature since God is a social construct. But so is nature, so nature cannot have a nature. It just is.