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 Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?

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dkchristi
Shelagh
Carol Troestler
Brenda Hill
alj
Sue
E. Don Harpe
Dick Stodghill
JoElle
Malcolm
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Sue
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Sue


Number of posts : 1216
Registration date : 2008-01-15

Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 11:18 am

Had I known then what I know now, I probably wouldn't have published my book. Then again, it would be better than it is now. I know that for a fact. I have been embarrassed to share my book with the authors here. It was a first book. No help of any kind. I mean NONE! There are plenty of mistakes. I am sure most of you can tear it apart. However, it seems that those who are reading it and benefiting from it aren't looking at it the way we, writers, are. They are reading it and getting something from the content, in spite of the presentation.

I have learned so much since then that I need to apply to the next one. I believe that if we learn and don't apply that knowledge, it is worse than not knowing at the beginning.

So, was my first book wrong according to standards, or did it matter? I think sometimes we leave out the main element: the reader. We are so caught up in ourselves, the writer, that we forget about them.

As a reader I have read books that were terrible in all aspects except the story or the information it was sharing. I let the former go and embraced the latter. I believe most readers do also. You notice I didn't say all readers. Unless something is really obvious or in your face I don't think it matters to a lot of readers.

I have noticed that I am losing the fun of reading for pleasure. What never hit me in the face before stands out boldly since I have started publishing and editing. Things that never made a difference to enjoying the book and/or story are becoming prominent. Does this mean that we, as writers, see things differently than the reader. I think so. Before we jump down each other's throats here, we should find out what bothers most readers.

Has that ever been done? Is there documentation to prove that studying and taking courses to write and just writing for creativity makes a difference or draws more readers than not? I would love to see that if there is.

Some writers feel compelled to study. Some don't. That doesn't mean either is right or wrong. That only means that works for them. To imply, as I have felt is being done here, that one is right or wrong depending on what stance one is taking, is detrimental to all writing, and to how one writer accepts another.

Everyone is right. Everyone is wrong. There just needs to be balance in all that is done.
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alj
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alj


Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 80
Location : San Antonio

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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 11:22 am

Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 950944

Ann
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Carol Troestler
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Carol Troestler


Number of posts : 3827
Registration date : 2008-06-07
Age : 86
Location : Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 11:44 am

Sue Sunshine wrote:

I have learned so much since then that I need to apply to the next one. I believe that if we learn and don't apply that knowledge, it is worse than not knowing at the beginning.

So, was my first book wrong according to standards, or did it matter? I think sometimes we leave out the main element: the reader. We are so caught up in ourselves, the writer, that we forget about them.

Everyone is right. Everyone is wrong. There just needs to be balance in all that is done.

I shortened Sue's quote, and I do not mean to take the above parts out of context, but I find great value in the first paragraph above. My writing might be C- or worse if graded here, but perhaps taking into account all comments it might improve to a B- but still not be publishable quality because I still don't have it right and perhaps my quality of writing is just plain mediocre at best and will never make it to traditional publishing standards.

But if we have any confidence in our writing at all, if we find any value in our voices and what we have to say, than we need to keep using knowledge we have gained.

And Shelagh, have you forgotten about the sale of our grandmothers? Wink

Carol
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E. Don Harpe
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E. Don Harpe


Number of posts : 1979
Registration date : 2008-01-17
Age : 82
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 7:41 am

The old saying: "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear," is true about writing as well. No amount of study will ever make a bad writer anything better than adequate.
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dkchristi
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dkchristi


Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 12:49 pm

I think it is appropriate that E.Don Harpe uses "Killing Frost" for his avatar. It is a short story he wrote that just thinking about it touches my heart and brings tears. I hope he enters it in some contest somewhere to bring him recognition. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend the few minutes it takes to read the well-crafted heart breaker.

Sometimes great writing isn't a whole novel or a series. It may be just a story; then maybe another one. Great writing from my perspective is inspired writing that others read and recognize its greatness. Too often, it is long after we leave this earth.

I know that I have written bits and pieces that are exceptional. Others that are mediocre. Others that were specifically for a purpose and lacked inspiration. The trick for greatness is to capture the exceptional times in a bundle that has market appeal.

I was irritated that Twilight, about vampires, could take the nation and the world by storm. Why, I wasn't about to read about vampires! Then, at a loss to find a movie to rent, I rented Twilight. I was caught up in the unique story and ready for the sequel. Where did it capture me? Why? Those are the fickle questions that make the difference between great and excptional.
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'nough s
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Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 7:52 pm

Free-thinking is wonderful if a writer has 'Writer's Block,' but when it comes to writing a novel or a short-story, techniques and execution is what separates the amateur from the professional.



By Brenda Hill

The professional
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E. Don Harpe
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E. Don Harpe


Number of posts : 1979
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Age : 82
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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 8:12 pm

nough s, what are you're point?
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'noughsa
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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 8:42 pm

When she pleads, "typo," remind her that technically proficient pros edit slop before publication.
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Grammar
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Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 9:00 pm

Perhaps Mrs Hill should lower her bill for her editing services. lol!
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E. Don Harpe
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E. Don Harpe


Number of posts : 1979
Registration date : 2008-01-17
Age : 82
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 10:12 pm

Tis easy to hide behind those silly little screen names and take cheap shots at someone. Want to be taken seriously, post your name and what you've written.

When Brenda pleads "typo" she'll be telling the truth.
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Brenda Hill
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Brenda Hill


Number of posts : 1297
Registration date : 2008-02-16
Location : Southern CA

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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 2:37 am

I did make some whoppers in my posts, so thank you, 'noughsa and Grammar, for pointing them out. If I keep posting, I’ll probably make more, so it’s reassuring to know people like you will let me know. Most of us on this forum have made typos and/or mistakes in our posts, but we have the class to overlook them. How nice that you’ve shown yours.

And thank you, Don, for stepping in.

I may disagree with some of the theories presented by my fellow posters on this board, but because of a several-year friendship with most, I can argue with them, not only because of that friendship, but because of a respect I have for them as creators of works of art. Don is a fine songwriter and fiction writer. Carol was a therapist. I’ve read portions of their work and know their talent.

Do you have any works of art you’d like to share?


Last edited by Brenda Hill on Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Carol Troestler
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Carol Troestler


Number of posts : 3827
Registration date : 2008-06-07
Age : 86
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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 4:36 am

Thank you, Brenda.

I recently read an article on Visual Arts Junction written by Brenda about "writing what you know" that hit home for me. It included a lot of soul and study.

On this messageboard, we have conversation, sharing of thoughts, ideas. When I speak in conversation, I sometimes speak bad grammar and "typos," so it seems to be appropriate here as well. Writing here is also good practice for finding out if one is getting their ideas across.

Carol
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Dick Stodghill
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Dick Stodghill


Number of posts : 3795
Registration date : 2008-05-04
Age : 98
Location : Akron, Ohio

Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 5:18 am

Good for you, Brenda. Don, too. People who do not have the courage to identify themselves are pathetic losers. Laughable as well.
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Grammar
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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 8:07 am

We is not pathetic losers,

We is scared--we do not want Brenda to attack us.
We have seen her go after people and it is not a pretty sight
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Don Stephens
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Don Stephens


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Location : Wherever my hat's hanging today!

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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 8:15 am

] cyclops


Last edited by D. J. (Don) Stephens on Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Brenda Hill
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Number of posts : 1297
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Location : Southern CA

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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 8:59 am

Better watch out, noughsa and Grammar. I may be 'after' the two of you next.

Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 56809
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Grammar
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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 9:04 am

Maybe we are not writers.

Don't be so intimidated , we are able to read.

We are mererly commenting.

Peace!
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Brenda Hill
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Brenda Hill


Number of posts : 1297
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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 9:10 am

Intimidated? I doubt it.

Why don't you log back in under your own name? Some have missed you.
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E. Don Harpe
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E. Don Harpe


Number of posts : 1979
Registration date : 2008-01-17
Age : 82
Location : Florida

Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 11:34 am

I haven't. I never miss those who add little or nothing to the discussion.
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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March


Number of posts : 10768
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 85
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 11:47 am

Can't believe what I'm reading here. Do we have another poster that likes to hide and takes shots? That is the trait of a coward or an infant. It's like hiding behind Moma's skirt while sucking their thumb.
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Shelagh
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Number of posts : 12662
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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 11:49 am

Enough said.
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Dick Stodghill
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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 12:29 pm

One more thing, Shelagh: "Go get 'em, Brenda!"
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Brenda Hill
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Brenda Hill


Number of posts : 1297
Registration date : 2008-02-16
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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 12:44 pm

Smile

Thanks, y'all. Before you tar and feather the unidentified posters, just think who I 'went after' lately and his supporter. It's comical that I tried to tell them about the writers here.

I may 'go after' someone because I disagree with their thinking, but at least I do it in the open.
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Shelagh
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Shelagh


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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 1:42 pm

Here's me believing that I read every single post on the forum! I missed Brenda going after anyone (although I'm assuming it was Lane, who left after I said that he had done something silly). Makes me wonder what else I've missed! affraid
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Carol Troestler
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Number of posts : 3827
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Age : 86
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PostSubject: Re: Does 'too much' study ruin our writing?   Does 'too much' study ruin our writing? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 20, 2009 1:50 pm

I read through Brenda's posts looking for that same thing, Shelagh.

It is fascinating to read posts out of context. They never sound bad at all. I guess when you add the previous one or the next one they sound different, but they are each separate posts, ideas, and thoughts.

Carol
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