| How real publishing works | |
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+13alj alice E. Don Harpe cdemu Malcolm Carol Troestler W. Lane Rogers Abe F. March dkchristi RunsWithScissors Sue Dick Stodghill Shelagh 17 posters |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:07 am | |
| 10/10 for Alice, Lane and Ann! Charles or Charlie or Chuck is welcome to post here. If he decides not to, that will be his decision. David (dmondeo) was treated far worse and he still posts. His name is David James Munday and he is a member of the network: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Charles joined yesterday and has changed his avatar three times. |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:13 am | |
| Toy away Marie. My guess is that cdemu will be replaced by a newer version. Can't wait to see who his next publisher will be! |
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alj Five Star Member
Number of posts : 9633 Registration date : 2008-12-05 Age : 80 Location : San Antonio
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:29 am | |
| Children need to understand, sometimes, that the things they are doing are upsetting. It's not about who they are, it's about what they are doing.
When we see a behavior pattern repeating itself, and have come to see that the pattern is a negative one which will lead to dissension and trouble down the line, some of us want to stop the pattern before it does harm.
It's not about the person, it's about the pattern, and the material and subject matter being brought back up.
Ann |
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W. Lane Rogers Four Star Member
Number of posts : 322 Registration date : 2009-03-02 Location : Arizona
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:14 am | |
| My bottom line is this: arrogant patronization by a man incapable of writing a coherent sentence is annoying. Very annoying. |
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alice Five Star Member
Number of posts : 15672 Registration date : 2008-10-22 Age : 76 Location : Redmond, WA
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:23 am | |
| - W. Lane Rogers wrote:
- My bottom line is this: arrogant patronization by a man incapable of writing a coherent sentence is annoying. Very annoying.
I agree. I don't think we acted crazy--we merely protested. I am sick and tired of being lectured to by strangers. Anyway, Charles has zero sense of humor-he showed none. I loved Lane's rebuttal. I am now convinced he must write humor. |
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LC Five Star Member
Number of posts : 5044 Registration date : 2009-03-28
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:07 am | |
| - Sue Sunshine wrote:
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Read your contracts. Most importantly, understand the contracts. I know a couple of authors who almost signed a contract that stated they would only receive their royalties after the expenses of the book were paid. So in plain English, they were paying to have their book published by a so-called traditional publishing house. If they hadn't been more careful reading the contract they would have been very disheartened Can you clarify what you mean by this? Here's an excerpt from one of my contracts (large, NY house). Are you saying I paid to be published, and if so, what does that mean? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] |
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LC Five Star Member
Number of posts : 5044 Registration date : 2009-03-28
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:36 am | |
| Well, if nothing else, you just showed everyone how to get a response from a large pub editor ...now that you have her name you can pitch her your next manuscript, lol. |
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Sue Five Star Member
Number of posts : 1216 Registration date : 2008-01-15
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:59 am | |
| Hello Lc,
Thank you for sharing the link. I will try to clarify what I was saying.
My contract reads somewhat the same as yours. Just broken down differently in different areas. The royalties are on the net as well.
Perhaps if I give you a case in point it would help explain what I meant.
A publisher says he will give royalties because they are a traditional publishing house. Then in the contract it states where the royalties will go towards the expenses. After all the expenses are paid, then the royalties would revert to the author. What that publisher is doing is paying up front, getting reimbursed by the author, and then paying royalties on anything sold thereafter.
To me that is paying to be published.
A true publisher carrries the burden of expense and recoups their money from their share of the sold books, while paying royalties to the author(s). The author isn't out any money. They aren't paying anything.
Was I clearer that time? I hope so. Let me know if you still don't understand. Sometimes I don't explain myself clear enough. I know what I mean; I just can't get it across to others. *grin* Pretty sad for a writer, huh? *giggle*
Last edited by Sue Sunshine on Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:00 am | |
| Of course, Charlie will be here soon telling us that he didn't use his real name and he was trying to protect the editor from unsolicited mail blah, blah ...
... but, of course, he's a straight talker. Not in the least bit crooked. |
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kdu Two Star Member
Number of posts : 40 Registration date : 2009-06-10
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:04 am | |
| This has to be the most rude, most blatant invasion of privacy I think I have ever seen. You must have a real need. How dare you guys pry into someone's business. How dare you! You make me sick. Utter disrespect for the privacy of others.
If I were charles, I'd have my lawyer draft you a nasty gram and a restraining order.
Thank god I didn't reveal my name and my publisher...or you'd calling them next. |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:08 am | |
| Your publisher is in your signature, cdemu oops kdu. |
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E. Don Harpe Five Star Member
Number of posts : 1979 Registration date : 2008-01-17 Age : 82 Location : Florida
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:24 am | |
| I don't know about cdemu, but it's obvious that kdu doesn't have a publisher, hasn't written anything, and may not even have a real name.
It's a shame with parents do that to some of their kids, isn't it?
In keeping with the other topic of the thread, most people assume an advance will have to be earned out, or paid off, out of royalties before the author begins to see any additional money. However, we don't think that the expense for editing, an ISBN, cover art, printing, etc. should have to be paid by the author. If a publisher takes that money from the author's royalties, then it pretty much is the same as paying to have your book published.
The author should be out no money at all for his/her book, unless he/she is given an advance, which of course has to be recovered by the publisher. |
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Sue Five Star Member
Number of posts : 1216 Registration date : 2008-01-15
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:28 am | |
| Well said, E.Don! Thanks for clarifying my mumbo-jumbo. *grin* |
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W. Lane Rogers Four Star Member
Number of posts : 322 Registration date : 2009-03-02 Location : Arizona
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:52 am | |
| - kdu wrote:
- You make me sick.
Take two aspirin and go to bed. Be sure to keep a bedpan handy. In a few days, you'll feel like a new man--so much so, you can pick a new name and resume your mindless prattle. |
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W. Lane Rogers Four Star Member
Number of posts : 322 Registration date : 2009-03-02 Location : Arizona
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:57 am | |
| Why does the tailend of this junk sentence look familiar? ...or you'd calling them next. Interesting that three different men each have a propensity to write sentences lacking key words. |
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LC Five Star Member
Number of posts : 5044 Registration date : 2009-03-28
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:00 am | |
| - Sue Sunshine wrote:
A publisher says he will give royalties because they are a traditional publishing house. Then in the contract it states where the royalties will go towards the expenses. After all the expenses are paid, then the royalties would revert to the author. What that publisher is doing is paying up front, getting reimbursed by the author, and then paying royalties on anything sold thereafter.
To me that is paying to be published. So the excerpt from my contract doesn't read like what the authors you spoke of were offered? I ask because I always wondered about that paragraph. I never thought to have a lawyer look it over. I just took it. I'm not complaining about it, just wondering. I posted it at AW a long time ago and asked the same thing, but no one answered. Another thing I've wondered about is royalties on net vs. list price. None of my contracts pay royalties on list price, yet from reading AW, you'd think list price is the standard. Maybe I got hosed three times or maybe they're full of it? |
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E. Don Harpe Five Star Member
Number of posts : 1979 Registration date : 2008-01-17 Age : 82 Location : Florida
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:23 am | |
| Marie, you're right of course. The author is still not out any money. He/she received the advance, and the publisher is just recovering that amount. All very above board and standard for the industry. I have read where some authors were asked to pay back a portion of the advance in case the royalties didn't cover it, but I think this is just in some cases, and is not the norm for the way things usually work. |
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Sue Five Star Member
Number of posts : 1216 Registration date : 2008-01-15
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:48 am | |
| Every publishing house their own contract and details in that contract. I am not a lawyer. I do NOT know if there is anything wrong with that paragraph. It is worded differently than mine and includes things that I don't include or I include in other areas of the contract. The contract I am using was given to me by a very, very reliable publishing house and is a standard publishing contract with changes I have made for my company.
Most royalties are paid on the net.
After I started using the contract I use, I purchased a book entiltled Business and Legal Forms for Authors and Self-Publishers by Tad Crawford. My contract is very close to the example used on page 47 of the above-mentioned book.
Again, if you have any questions about a contract you shouldn't take my word or any one else's word. You should contact an intellectual property lawyer or a contractual lawyer. Discuss the contract with the publisher. I tell my authors that it is negotiable and to ask questions. One author asked many questions which helped me understand the contract as well. We came to agreement and signed. That is the way I feel it should be.
I believe, but not sure, that the publisher that shared the contract with me is now giving royalties on the list price because he doesn't want to figure out all the other things. Some things he eats and other things he doesn't. Perhaps that is why your publisher does it on the list price. They don't want to deal with all it takes to figure out the net. I believe it is an individual publishers preference.
Did I answer your questions? |
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Sue Five Star Member
Number of posts : 1216 Registration date : 2008-01-15
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:51 am | |
| E.Don, in my opinion if an advance is given and the sales of the book doesn't meet up to expectations, the publisher should have to eat that advance. It was a faith decision, whether good or bad, that the book would sell. If it doesn't then the decision of the publisher wasn't a good one and he needs to own up to it and move on. Publishing is a business. Businesses make poor decisions all the time. Their decision shouldn't fall on the author returning funds for the action of the publisher. |
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lovesamy Guest
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:54 am | |
| I have been trying to educate myself on how the business end of the publishing process works in advance of my first release, and found this blog post: (please insert forward slashes where the % signs are) http:%%editorialass.blogspot.com%2009%05%and-you-thought-royalty-involved-crown.html My agent is going to go over everything with me when the time comes, but I wanted to get some information upfront so I didn't stare at her glassy-eyed when she did. I have read it through three times and I am sure I will do so again! Hope this helps some. |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:35 pm | |
| Thanks lovesamystery! I think you have provided the answers to everyone's questions: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] |
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LC Five Star Member
Number of posts : 5044 Registration date : 2009-03-28
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:32 pm | |
| That article, like most discussions on the subject, addresses fiction writers. And even then, the advances listed seem way outsized compared to what I've read elsewhere of what typical advances are. Most books published are nonfiction. Go to any B/N, fiction is about 1/4th of the book floor space. Non fic of all types is the rest, and the issues always discussed in such blogs and message boards rarely apply to it. |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:01 pm | |
| That is a good point, LC. Do you have any information about non-fiction advances and royalties? |
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Dick Stodghill Five Star Member
Number of posts : 3795 Registration date : 2008-05-04 Age : 98 Location : Akron, Ohio
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:29 pm | |
| One point about not having to return an advance that doesn't pay out. When it doesn't pay out, that writer is going to have a difficult time finding someone to publish his next book. The publishing world is a small one and word gets around. |
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LC Five Star Member
Number of posts : 5044 Registration date : 2009-03-28
| Subject: Re: How real publishing works Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:21 pm | |
| - Shelagh wrote:
- That is a good point, LC. Do you have any information about non-fiction advances and royalties?
Only my own. I'm not plugged in to any kind of writing community IRL, and I haven't seen people discuss it online. There is this link for fiction, though; if the numbers are real, most are not impressive. The AW darling, Samhain, looks like a joke with both its advance and earn-out. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] |
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