The problems of being a man

We can physoanalyze all we want, but the fact is that some people are just mean. When they see what they think is a sign of weakness, they do all they can to exploit it. Many men see women as being weaker, and they want to dominate them and it comes out in many ways, including beatings.

I once had a young woman that worked for me who got beat up regularily by her husband. For about ten years of marriage, she lived with his beating her, and over the years he got much worse, huring her more and more everytime they got into a fight. She would call the police, they would come and pick him up, his mother would go to the jail and post his bond, and he'd come back home for another round. This went on and on and on.

Once she missed an entire week of work. She called in sick, but I suspected that I knew what was going on. When she finally returned to work, I just plainly asked her what had happened. We walked to an area where no one could see us, and she showed me her bandaged ribs. He'd broken two of them with a hammer in their last fight. The only thing I could think of to say was: "You know you're going to have to kill that SOB, don't you? Either that, or he's going to kill you." She just stared at the floor.

He came to the plant one day and started an arugment with her, and a few of us were more than happy to run his sorry butt off and tell him if he came back he wouldn't like what he found. But the plant manager made the decison to let her go. Said we couldn't have angry husbands in the work place. He was right, but none of us liked it.

A couple of years later, after yet another fight, he once again went to jail. Once again his mother got him out. Once again he came home and began to beat on his wife. This time their ten year old son came into the room and told him to stop, and he hit the boy. She ran to the bedside table, opened the drawer, took out a .38 special and told him that he'd beat her for years, but he wasn't going to beat her children. She shot him, killed him dead as four o'clock, as they used to say back home. Knowing the history between them, she was acquitted and served no jail time. He never beat her, or anyone else, again. Good riddance to bad trash, far as I'm concerned, but it should have happened sooner.

For those who have posted that there is never a reason for viloence, let me say that yes, there is. This was one of those times, and over the years I've seen many others. Some people will not react to kindness, to common sense, or to what the law tells them they have to do. Some of them need a good killing, as that is the only way they will ever be stopped.

E. Don,

Why on earth did his stupid mother bail him out?

No way to account for some people, Alice.

Some mother's refuse to believe that their children would do bad things. This one probably blamed the wife for the problems, and may have thought she deserved whatever she got.

I hate to see anyone lose their life, but in this case I stand by my thought that the action taken was the one that should have been taken. If it had been one of my daughters in a situation like this, I might have done the same thing, only sooner.

I know a mother like that Alice. I've been thinking about that a lot lately, as I know a situation presently pending. Mothers sometimes blame other people for their children's mistakes. "Poor Johnny has had terrible teachers, girl friend, wife." And what that does is disempower Johnny. What power or control over his life does he have if the world is going to screw him no matter what he does? He might as well do whatever because it doesn't matter and mom will bail him out. Bad parenting, but of course it is easier than having a child in jail. It is always easier to give out that check or excuse than to listen, problem solve with them, and say, "I think you can figure this out. You always have done well at that."

And even if he/she isn't to blame, that it is a bad teacher, girl friend, wife, than he/she has to figure out how to endure or change the situation, because life gives us those impossible people and situations at times. At the same time, parents need to know when to step in with children and be advocates.

The situation I can't speak of here has upset a friendship, upset lives, and put adults on paths of personal destruction. "The police are picking on our family." "The school system never met his needs." Maybe so, but that does not mean a person is helpless or life is hopeless.

Life is not easy. It is not a decision of when to shoot someone, but much more complicated. Sometimes people do have flaws that make it difficult to proceed in life, but there are ways to work with the flaws or overcome them. Waiting until something is so bad one needs to kill someone is not an answer. If the police don't do what is right, then go to counseling, and if those people don't do what is right, try the media. I knew someone in real danger who distributed letters to various entities, professional as well as family, that if anything happened to her who to arrest. Her idea, not mine. She is still alive as far as I know.

We need to be supportive as Alice was with her friend. We need to tell people there are options, difficult to find at first. And if that woman had killed that man sooner, she would be in jail for life. Her children were hurt long before this particular threat. I once asked a young boy if his life had ever been in danger, and he said, "You mean like when my father threw a butcher knife at my mom and it almost hit me?" And yes, E. Don, I turned this in to authorities, sorry.

Zada, I had to smile at the "ironing it out" comment.

And there are even books on the subject that can help put people in the right direction, or help them know how to seek help, or how to value themselves even when those closest seem not to.

Carol

Carol, if a guy threw a butcher knife at his wife, and if you actually took the time to learn the real story, instead of just acting on blind faith and the word of a child, then you did the right thing in turning the guy in.

This is not in the same category of turning in people that you think, or that you have heard, or that you suspect, might be child molesters, abusers, or pedophiles.

The guy with the knife, if guilty, might do some jail time or he might not, but guilty or not, he will be able to get on with his life. Assualt does not carry the same weight with society as child molestation.

A man or woman who gets accused of molesting a child will never outlive the stigma, doesn't matter if he or she is found not guilty. I think any person has to be 100% sure of what they are telling the authorities about a case of child abuse, or be prepared to face the consequences of their action, and take some of the responsibility, if the man or woman is not guilty, and especially if his or her life is ruined forever.

E.Don,


The woman I spoke about was ridculous in the extereme.

One day she was washing clothes when her husband came home in a mean mood and socked her in the eye.

The phone rang --it was her brother To his query of," How are you?"

She replied, Not good-- hubby just punched me."

"I will be right over." He said.

When his car came up the driveway, Mr Meanie called 911.

It was too late-brother came in and mopped the floor with him, then ran.

The police swore out a warrant for his arrest and he was ordered to stand trial for assault and battery.

His sister was on the witness stand and the judge said, " Your husband beats you? How long has this been going on?"

She said, "For the last 20 yeas."

He said, "Why have you put up wth it?"

She had no answer.

The case against her brother was dismissed.

First of all, E. Don, get this straight once and for all, and I mean this. I did not go around accusing people without something to go on. I am not a detective, although I have solved some mysteries from time to time. I am not an interrogator or policeman. I am a social worker. I listen. I am highly trained as are others in my position. I obey the law even if it isn't always perfect. I never sent anyone to jail or ruined any lives. I worked in a school at the time. We were not to be doing investigation or making accusations. We reported what we heard first to a school authority via district procedures, did what we needed to do, and then depended on some other expert to work on finding the real story as you say. I had a job to do as a school employee and also had to follow school rules.

In my mental health clinic, before people made those phone calls they consulted with me, my partner or another professional.

Get off my case. I am serious here. I saved a few children and women from abuse and I am proud of that. I never sent anyone to jail for anything. That wasn't my job. The cases I appeared in court for were not for prosecuting an abuser because that is not what I did. One time my expertise was used to keep a child in their abusive home because she had someone she could talk to. That was very, very wrong. The system can work the wrong way, but it is the system.

This is something that is close to my heart, as it is to Tory, DK, and others here. We did our best to protect children, men and women. Believe there is not one person here that I would not trust with personal information or in helping me if I needed help.

Carol

Oh, No!

Not this again!

I am calling the "proper authorities" if I can determine who they are!

I plead the fifth.

Sorry Alice and Shelagh, but here's my side, once again.

Carol Troestler wrote:

I once asked a young boy if his life had ever been in danger, and he said, "You mean like when my father threw a butcher knife at my mom and it almost hit me?" And yes, E. Don, I turned this in to authorities, sorry. Carol

Get off your high horse, Carol. Nobody made you bring me into your post, you chose to do that all by yourself. You didn't have to reopen that can of worms but you chose to, not me. You used my name, and that makes it personall.

I responded as I have in the past, and you can like it or not. I have not accused you of anything, I have said you are a highly respected professional person, and I don't know what else you expect.

However, to the topic at hand, we both know that I am right. Sometimes well meaning people report a person as being a child abuser, and if that turns out to be untrue, the person who did the reporting just goes on about their business, not really caring that they may have ruined someone forever. But they don't learn, and will do the same thing again if the situation arises.

I have never said that you do this, or have ever done it, or would ever do it, but it happens, and I don't think it is right. I don't care who the person is that reports something like this, I think they should bear some of the responsibility if they are wrong.

So, maybe you should get off my case. If you don't want me to respond to your posts, then stop making them personal.

"I don't care who the person is that reports something like this, I think they should bear some of the responsibility if they are wrong."

This is where the problem is and yes that is true. I don't know how things are in your state, but in my state if I don't report and something terrible happens and I knew there might be something wrong, I lose my license, pay a big fine, go to jail. That is part of being responsible. It has happened. It is not me. It is the system. It works 80% of the time. And what I am trying and trying to say is that just as in our government which isn't perfect either, there are checks and balances. Social workers only report. Detectives, county officials, judges judge and make the decisions. I am responsible for being educated, for using good judgement, for doing my best. If I went home and couldn't sleep I knew I had to do something.

I am in a very bad mood right now. Yes, I have been blessed in life, but I need to do things to pay back, and I know I have, but that isn't enough. It is never enough. I couldn't even drive myself to a Red Cross meeting last night because of our road. I know this road needs repair, but it is the only road for many people and is very dangerous right now. I can walk and do most household chores, but I have so many restrictions I am no help to anyone. It is important. I try to tell myself I can write, I can do stuff for my family, but another Katrina will occur and I'll be crying because I can't help. I've been given an extension on renewing my license but I am not even sure I can complete the requirements by the date they gave me, since it is impossible for me to go places on my own.

I am just angry right now. Is what I did in the past enough? Do I just say it was? It was my best, but is that enough? I'm just not very patient today. I am feeling trapped and I hate that feeling. Yes, I have a lot, and that is the problem. I try to share my talents that are still there, but can they be used? Could writing be enough?

Carol

I think I am feeling survivor guilt right now. If I am alive after having stage four cancer, then there must be something I am supposed to do.

I just can't quite figure out what that is.

Carol

Carol,

You have done enough. You are seventy years old. Fifty years ago that would have been considered very old, almost like a ninety-year-old these days. With modern medicine, folks can remain fit and healthy for longer, but that doesn't mean that they have to keep paying back. You should enjoy your retirement. You have earned it. Whatever you did in the past was done for the best. That is all any of us can do. To argue about something that you did with the very best of intentions won't change anything or bring about a different outcome.

Pull up a chair, sip a cup of tea and enjoy the rest of your life. Every day is a bonus.

Be patient Carol. If there is something for you to do, you will be presented with it! Just keep writing. I once had an instance of 'what am I supposed to be doing?' I was told two things that helped me. My life is none of my business, and it is my job just to show up each day. Of course, to those who do not believe in divine guidence, those phrases will mean nothing, but I think you will understand.

Carol Troestler wrote:

I think I am feeling survivor guilt right now. If I am alive after having stage four cancer, then there must be something I am supposed to do.

I just can't quite figure out what that is.

Carol

Carol, I have survivor guilt as well. I was just pronounced in remission in December of 2005 and in February of 2006 a young woman with two small children and a husband died of lung cancer. She was my sister-in-law's neice. I couldn't justify why I was alive and she wasn't. There were logical reasons, of course, but none of those were good enough for me. It simply wasn't fair. She had people relying on her and I was a single woman pretty much doing my own thing.

There is no answer. It is what it is. We both know that every day is precious and it is enough to smell the sweet air, look to the sky and say thank you for this moment. I will not take it for granted.

Carol, you are a good woman, and we all have the right to get angry now and then. You're a survivor, and believe me, there's nothing wrong with that.

After surviving several heart attacks, quadruple bypass surgery, a perforated stomach, melonoma, and the last heart attack when they put in the stint, I know something of surviving. I'm happy to be alive, not guilty because I am.

Yes, I agree that child abuse cases need to be reported, but I am not happy with a system that is right, as you said, only 80% of the time. I would personally be very careful to verify the story of any child before I reported something to the authorities that could have such a devastating effect on anyone. There's no question that all child abusers should be locked away, but this is a case where I don't think we should toss the innocent into a system that is stacked against them. There should be a way of 100% keeping names private, at all levels, until the case is 99% proven. My friend, and Marie's friend, both had their lives ruined by the system, and I will never be satisfied until it is changed.

As far as counseling goes, there is an entire world out there that many of you either don't know exists, or won't admit exists. This world does not go by the same rules that most of us live by, and to the man in the story I posted, counseling would have been laughed at. Under direct orders he may have taken counseling, but it would not have done one iota of good. All people do not live in an educated world, and those that have known nothing else seldom understand that there are a lot of people out there who don't live the the way they do, and don't want to live that way.

I'm outta here for a few hours, headed for Georgia.

Have a wonderful weekend.

Carol,

Maybe your anger has a positive side to it. It sounds like you are still getting better. Your sense of frustration and impatience sounds typical of someone recovering from a debilitating condition, just not quite as fast as they would wish.

People who live lives of service, whether they are social workers, teachers, or whatever occupation will always find ways to contribute. Perhaps you will go back to your earlier work, perhaps something new is waiting close by.

Just like your delightful new picture shows us, you are still very much you.

Ann

May I please speak?

I have enjoyed only the best of life and health for 61 almost 62 years.

I have dwelt in only the finest houses, eaten only the tastiest foods and ridden in the most luxurious vehicles.

I have done nothing for anyone , ever.

I do not feel a bit guilty for being alive. I was not ever consulted in the matter.

Carol Troestler wrote:

I think I am feeling survivor guilt right now. If I am alive after having stage four cancer, then there must be something I am supposed to do.

I just can't quite figure out what that is.

Carol

Obviously you are to live--you are doing a great job--keep at it.

After surviving several heart attacks, quadruple bypass surgery, a perforated stomach, melonoma, and the last heart attack when they put in the stint, I know something of surviving. I'm happy to be alive, not guilty because I am.

E. Don has this right--dead on!

E. Don Harpe wrote:

I know something of surviving. I'm happy to be alive, not guilty because I am.

HEY Harpe, Betcha owe it all to good clean livin'

That's one bet I won't back.

zadaconnaway wrote:

Shelagh has the right idea!

If I waited for cops to arrive, it would be too late. I have learned the hard way what I will and will not tolerate. And my partner is well aware of my past and what is acceptable to me. We have it ironed out, so to speak.

Zada,

You have set me to thinking and rememberiing.

A creep got one of our kids in the store--broad daylight, cut clothes off with a buck knife, approached me and said, "Oh I was just talking to your kid about a game-I was tryng to figure out what kind to get for my kid."

At that he bolted and ran. I yelled," Where did that man go?"

The clerk replied, "He seemed in a very big hurry."

"Yes he did!" I roared. "I hope you know he is a child molestor and just stole my child's clothing and I would love to take a few things off of your shelves and throw them at him.

Just then murder was heavy and foremost on my mind. I see where you are coming from.

You are right Alice, as usual. We'd all fight to the death for our kids, and give our lives for our kids or grandkids.

We have our four-year-old for the weekend. We've already had pizza, went fishing, and he rode his bike. My son's first of probably 15 phone calls came soon after we arrived here. He said, "Mom, he's like me, so just treat him like you would me."

Carol

There ya go, Carol, That is why you are here--your grandson needs your fun and I need you too.

Love ya,

Alice