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 Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009

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Shelagh
Carol Troestler
zadaconnaway
alj
Don Stephens
A Ahad
Abe F. March
E. Don Harpe
alice
Dick Stodghill
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Carol Troestler
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 12:15 pm

Me again.

Then there is my husband. He was always picked first for those teams. He wanted to win.

When he was a senior in high school, his mother died. He poured his heart into baseball, and was featured in some newspaper articles and won some awards.

One day in the summer after graduation, a lawyer in his town called and asked where he was going to college. He told him he wasn't going to college, that he didn't have the money. The man said, "Don't worry about it. I'll see you have the money."

It seems a small college in the middle of the state wanted to improve their athletic teams, especially baseball, and this lawyer was connected with this school in some way.

But after Tom met me his baseball playing suffered. One time I was sitting in the stands and someone behind me said, "What has happened to Tom Troestler this year? Last year he was the best on the team." It was probably his association with the nerdy skinny girl who was always picked last.

Phy ed really brought down my illustrious grade point average and Tom had to take me out to practice hitting a softball so I'd even pass the course. Years later when we went back to visit, my advisor told this story of me being coached in softball to those around him. It was nice he remembered, I think.

Carol
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 1:16 pm

<< Back then we chose kids to be on our teams who
had shown that they had some ability to play, and who had shown that they
wanted to win. The same ones got chosen last because they didn’t have those
qualities, and before you say it, yes, it was usually the lack of those
qualities that made them less popular. In today’s society we teach kids to
“feel good about themselves,” >>






Well, Don, the Darwinism of this aside, I will have to
differ.
rabbit Kids didn’t need to be told day in, day out, in
an institutional manner (which is what the team-picking was) that they were losers.
They got plenty of opportunities for
that outside of PE.






However, not being athletically adept doesn’t make one a
loser. It means one is not athletically adept. Why I called the teachers stupid
is because their pedagogy assumed that letting the losers know they were indeed,
losers, didn’t motivate them to be winners; it simply instilled a life-long dislike
for athletics.






About today’s supposed “feel good” culture. I truly have
not seen this. My kids' schools have always
let them know what they are and aren’t good at. But the inclusiveness is a huge
improvement. "Back then," kids who didn’t make the team –whatever team-
were basically told to take a hike. Not to mention that the kids who DID make
the team often did so because they had the benefit of paid lessons. Today there is a place for all kids who want
to be on a team. It may not be the A team or B team, but there’s a C team for
them, and being allowed to participate offers the motivated ones a chance to
improve. You can’t improve if you’re not even allowed in the game.
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E. Don Harpe
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 1:24 pm

From The Last of the South Town Rinky Dinks. Copyright 2008 E. Don Harpe RJB Publishing
____________________________________________


From early March or April, as soon as the weather began to get a little warmer, we started throwing a ball around.

There was hardly any traffic on 21st, so we stood in the street and played catch much of the time. Back and forth, in the air or on the ground. Throw the ball, catch the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball. Whether it was a hard horsehide baseball or a soft rubber bouncy ball, the end result was the same. We played catch. Every day. If it rained softly, we played catch in the rain and got wet. If it was pouring down rain, we played catch in the rain and got soaked. Didn't matter. Nothing stopped us from playing ball.

If there were no one else around, we'd throw the ball against the house and catch it on the bounce. Or throw it straight up in the air and catch it when it came down. I've thrown the ball up on the roof of the house and caught it when it rolled off so many times I used to be able to close my eyes and catch the ball just from the sound it made as it rolled down the tin roof. If that sounds unbelievable, maybe it is. The best I can remember, I could do that. I think I could do that. I tell my kids I used to be able to do that. Actually, it's not all that hard. It's easy to tell where the ball is coming, from the way it clanks and bounces on the tin. All you have to do is stick out your glove and you'll either catch the ball or miss it. Or it'll hit you on the head. Missing the ball and getting hit in the head are what happens most, but now and then the ball hits your glove and you catch it. I've done that, many times. Remember, I used to do that "for hours at a time".

But usually there were plenty of kids around that wanted to play. Down the street, behind the little row of shotgun houses on the right, was a good sized field where most of our ball games were held, and just as we gathered around the street light at night, every day we gathered in the field. It was a ritual of sorts, I guess, to meet every day in the field and choose up sides for the day.

Choosing sides was mostly for that day’s ball game, but sometimes we kept the same sides all day long regardless of what we played.

Let me assure you, there's an art to choosing up sides. It ain't as simple as it sounds. There's a lot of psychology involved, especially when you're trying to decide whom to pick first.

Whatever you're using for a ball bat that day is what you use to decide who gets first pick. Somebody will say something like;

Donald and Wesley, y'all choose up sides.

One of us will grab the bat, pitch it to the other one, and the process begins.

You try to catch the bat as close to the top as you can without missing it. If you miss, the other one automatically gets first pick. Wherever you catch the bat, you hold it there and kinda shove it out toward the other kid. He places his hand around the bat, directly above yours, and then you place your other hand on the bat, directly above his. This process continues until you reach the top of the bat. The last one who can get hold of the bat and not drop it wins the right to pick the first player.

For this example, let's assume I get to pick first. Not fair, you say. Well, the fact is, a lot of the time I did get to pick first, and the other thing is, it's me who's writing this account, so I'll pick first if I want to.

I pick my first team member, taking into consideration a lot things. First of course, is how well they play ball. All kids are not created equal, at least not where playing ball is concerned. Some are much better than others. The eight or ten really good players always go first when you're choosing up sides. Next, you have to know if anyone get hurt yesterday bad enough that he won't be able to play very well today? Then, you have to check and see if any of the kids have a real ball. You always try to pick a kid who has a real ball if you can.

And you can forget about that old stuff of a kid getting mad and saying, "Well, I'll just take my ball and go home". Uh, uh. Not when you're playing with the Rinky Dinks. It don't matter whose ball it is, once you bring it to the field, it stays there until we're through playing with it, or it gets lost.


* * *


Then there was the problem of picking the girls.

Oh, you don't think picking a girl should be a problem? Well, it was back then. A big problem, and not one the Rinky Dinks handled very well, I'm afraid. But we had the perfect solution.

Obviously, you tried not to pick a girl. That was our whole strategy. Don't pick one unless you absolutely had no choice. And if just you had to pick one, try to say something that would make her mad enough that she'd leave and not play.

Whether you believe it or not, this wasn't sexual discrimination. Fact is, the girls just couldn't play ball as good as the boys, and if you had a couple of girls on your side you usually lost. If there was any discrimination at all during the procedure, it was of a ball game nature. We didn't want to lose, and if that meant the girls couldn't play, that was just the way it was. But sometimes, regardless of what we said to them, they wouldn't go home. They stood out in the middle of the field and insisted on playing. We learned early on that reasoning was out of the question, talking things through did no noticeable good, and once they had their minds made up, there was little we could do to change them. So at times like these, we did the things men always seem to do, we gave in. We let them play ball with us, and usually got the tee total heck beat out of whichever team they were on. But it was a small price to pay for them not telling our parents we wouldn't let them play. Diplomacy can very rewarding and can become a very real part of your life, and that's especially true if you know for a fact that your Dad will whip your butt with a willow switch if you get told on. We knew it. And the worst part was, the girls knew it too.

But in all fairness, later on there were some really great women's softball teams that played at Woodland Street School, and over the years they compiled a super great win-loss record.

Helen Gregory, the girl who later became my wife was a great softball player, and kept playing right up until we had our fourth child.

But still, when we were choosing up sides in the field, the object was to not pick a girl unless you had absolutely had to. So most of the time we didn't.
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 1:28 pm

<< As for newspapers reporting more crime stories
than in the past, they reported far more of it in the old days and in a
more sensational manner. For proof, read microfilm copies of any large
city newspaper from the 1930s. >>

Far more quantitatively, or far more relative to other content covered? For instance, was there the insane amount of sports and celebrity coverage that we have today?
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Carol Troestler
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 1:35 pm

My grandson plays on the freshman basketball team, but he doesn't play much, until the fifth quarter. I know that sounds strange, but it is really fun to watch.

After the regular game, all the kids who didn't get to play much get to play a whole quarter. No score is kept and it is like when I used to watch my kids play basketball on our patio. They are having fun, and I've noticed my grandson plays much better and always has a smile on his face during this quarter.

I am somewhat of an expert on this stuff because I think I have watched more games of husband, kids and grandkids than the average person. My favorite is girls hockey. Those girls are so scrappy, and my granddaughter has been playing a lot. She says it is because her "line" does what the coach tells them to, not like another line of players that want to do their own thing.

See, Don this is really much more complicated than you say.

And the world needed some observers, not just all players. I think I'd be picked first in the observer department.

Carol
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E. Don Harpe
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 1:36 pm

LC, good points. I still don't agree but that's why both us have a mind of our own.

I have always thought that allowing all kids to play doesn't teach them anything at all other than that mediocrity is rewarded. I think that if a kid can't make the A team, they need to find something else to do and let those that can play do the playing. By the way, while you say you haven't observed the feel good mentality, the viewpoint you posted is a perfect example.

By the way, in rural Tennessee in the 40's and 50's, there were no paid lessons. The kids that wanted it bad enough learned to play the games, the lazy kids just didn't want to work hard enough. Natural talent has a lot to do with it, of course, but the desire to excel is something some kids have from the git go, and some just don't really care about. Some kids are made to be players, some to be in the band, and some to be cheerleaders. I personally think that's a fair mix.
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 1:43 pm

Quote :
However, not being athletically adept doesn’t make one a
loser. It means one is not athletically adept. Why I called the teachers stupid
is because their pedagogy assumed that letting the losers know they were indeed,
losers, didn’t motivate them to be winners; it simply instilled a life-long dislike
for athletics.

And, apparently, for teachers as well.

Ann
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E. Don Harpe
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 1:58 pm

“After the regular game, all the kids who didn't get to play much get to play a whole quarter. No score is kept and it is like when I used to watch my kids play basketball on our patio. They are having fun, and I've noticed my grandson plays much better and always has a smile on his face during this quarter.”

Carol, hopefully you can forgive me, but I just don’t see any point in this. When kids play T ball at about the age of 5 or 6, they are learning the basics of the game and no score is kept. Once they get a little larger, then scores become necessary. As far as a fifth quarter game is concerned, the kids can do the same thing in a pick up game. The fact is that all they’re out there for is so they can feel good about themselves, even though they didn’t get to play very much in the real game, where there was a real score. Having fun is important, but I think in this instance it teaches them the wrong lesson. The problem with it is that they may become accustomed to it, and may even eventually accept it as their part in the overall picture. I don’t think anyone should accept being anything other than the best they can be, and the only way to do that is to keep striving to play on the first team. Some of them will never make it on the athletic field, and that’s for sure, but perhaps they have talents that will push them to the forefront in whatever field they decide to work in, and then it will be them that are on the A team. We should always teach them that winning and losing are two different things, and that winning is preferable to losing.

Good observation, Ann.
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 2:01 pm

Carol said:

Quote :
I remember going to a high school reunion a few decades after graduation. We had a huge graduation class and I warned my husband not too many people would remember me. Wrong. All evening people kept coming up and speaking with me and telling me things they remembered about me. I had always felt like a shadow person who just traveled through life on that road less traveled.

I remember noticing the same thing at mine. On the one hand, as a class, we had been pretty close, but there were still the usual cliques, loners, and oddities. At the reunion, all those dividing lines vanished. We were just a bunch of people getting reacquainted and catching up. It didn't matter if you had been picked first to play on teams or not. Besides, by then, some of those nerds who weren't good at athletics had been much better at earning MBA's or PhD's, and were doing quite well.

I remember one individual more than the rest, though. I kept seeing him across the room, before I was close enough to see his ID, which - a neat trick, I thought - had photocopies of our Sr. Yearbook pictures. He looked very distinguished. We were all in casual dress at that point. This gentleman had on a red, white, and blue polo shirt with white duck pants. His hair was dark except for the gray temples, but something about him looked soo familiar. As I finally got close enough, he smiled at me and said, "Hey Ann, I was hoping you would be here." While he spoke, I fainally got a glimpse at his ID photo. And then I got it. The last time I had seen him, his hair had beens slicked back into a greasy duck-tail, and he had been wearing black jeans and a black leather jacket with more zippers than leather. This upright gentleman, in high school, had never truly walked through the building, he had slid - crotch first. And I was surprised to see that he had green eyes; they had always been hid under heavy lids. He had been our version of Arthur Fonzarelli. By the reunion, he was a banker.

Ann
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Carol Troestler
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 3:06 pm

We are going to disagree Don, but that is all right.

My son does triathlons and comes in first in his age group most of the time. (I've watched those also, which means you wait around a lot until the participant you are there to cheer on transitions to biking, running or finishing the race.) He is in the forty plus category. He is president of the endurance club in town that encourages all sorts of things, mostly just being physical!

Half my family runs in the Cow Chip race. They are very competitive with each other and train for this event.

We used to live near a family that had two daughters who eventually played professional tennis. Their father would be out there on the local tennis court with one of them and they would often be crying, that they wanted to go home, or go out with friends. They each won their share of tournaments worldwide and one sister went on to do some charitable work, remembering those days of her father wanting her to be a winner.

I love to see kids participate in music and sports. I always cheer them on to do their best. Sometimes they win and sometimes they lose. They learn from participating, being part of a team, losing and winning, and everyone should be able to have those experiences.

Carol

Carol
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Dick Stodghill
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 3:19 pm

Darn it, Carol, you and I are going to disagree too. The best players should get to play, those who aren't in that category should work at it until they are good enough to play. In coaching kids for 13 years, that was the rule. Along with me, the older kids helped the younger ones learn. If they worked at it, their time came.
I agree wholeheartedly with Don in that mediocrity should not be rewarded. It should be an incentive to work harder.
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 3:29 pm

Carol, I hear you. Compete at the things you are good at and stand a chance of winning and be prepared to join in and have fun participating in activites that you are not so good at. I wish aspiring writers and authors could adopt the same attitude, instead of believing that the fact they were capable of putting together a manuscript for a novel should lead to a profitable career in writing and somehow make them into a winner. If you are good enough, you will eventually succeed; if you not good enough, enjoy the experience and be pleased that you were at least able to join in.
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 4:40 pm

Great lead into this thread Dick, and reminded me of a great song I first heard recorded by Men of the Deeps (formed by Nova Scotia coal miners). Sixteen Tons laments the life of the coal miner who, instead of being paid in cash, was paid in script that could only be used at the company store. The company also owned the housing everyone lived in and so if the mine shut down, your debt to the company accumlated. These guys could never save any money to get ahead.

The chorus is:
You load sixteen tons, and what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
Saint Peter, don't you call me, 'cause I can't go;
I owe my soul to the company store.
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 5:21 pm

Pam wrote:
Great lead into this thread Dick, and reminded me of a great song I first heard recorded by Men of the Deeps (formed by Nova Scotia coal miners). Sixteen Tons laments the life of the coal miner who, instead of being paid in cash, was paid in script that could only be used at the company store. The company also owned the housing everyone lived in and so if the mine shut down, your debt to the company accumlated. These guys could never save any money to get ahead.

The chorus is:
You load sixteen tons, and what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
Saint Peter, don't you call me, 'cause I can't go;
I owe my soul to the company store.

Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 950944


I first heard it by "Tennessee Ernie" Ford, back in the late 50's. There was a time when I had every word memorized. I can still remember this much:

Some people say a man is made out of mud.
A poor man's made out of muscle and blood,
Muscle and blood and skin and bones,
A mind that's weak and a back that's strong

you load....

I can still pick up bits and pieces of other verses, but that's all that comes back. Not so bad; it was fifty years ago.

It's a good song. The lyrics have a strong folk essence, and the easy rock beat and rhythm make it a snap to remember. I just have less snap than I once did, I guess.

Not only is it fun remembering the song, you added a valuable point to Dick's thread.

Ann
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 5:29 pm

Ann,

Just for you, here are the lyrics...if a song starts out as a fragment running around in my head, I find it's easiest to stop once I recall the whole thing!


Some people say a man is made outta' mud
A poor man's made outta' muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do ya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded sixteen tons of number 9 coal
And the store boss said 'Well, a-bless my soul'

You load sixteen tons, what do ya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store


I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do ya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
One fist of iron, the other of steel
If the right one don't getcha, then the left one will

You load sixteen tons, what do ya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store.
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 5:41 pm

Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 973110 You must be younger than I am - certainly mentally.

Thanks again.
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 5:43 pm

Sixteen Tons, recorded by Tennessee Ernie Ford, late 40's or early 50's. Other people recorded this song, but Ford had the hit on it. Pushed this young artist well up the ladder, leading to a televison series and a very long, very lauded singing career.
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 6:07 pm

<< I think that if a kid can't make the A team, they need to
find something else to do and let those that can play do the playing.
By the way, while you say you haven't observed the feel good mentality,
the viewpoint you posted is a perfect example. >>

I see it more as an example of inclusiveness, not feel-good entitlement. What's wrong with encouraging recreational sport in a school setting? Why does it all have to be about competition? Adults play in local sport leagues, no?

I did enjoy reading the excerpt from your book, though. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 6:17 pm

You can listen to the song here:

http://www.imeem.com/astrozombie/music/C0UtmqAR/tennessee_ernie_ford_sixteen_tons/
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 6:30 pm

LC, we just have a difference of opinion, not a big step for a stepper, as they used to say where I came from.

I have many very good, pretty much life long friends that don't agree with anything at all, doesn't mean all that much to us.

Wouldn't this be a dull old world if everyone agreed on everything.

With that said, most adult leagues I've ever seen or played in, and it's been a lot, in many different sports, always kept score.

The book is called The Last of the South Town Rinky Dinks, and is doing quite well for an independent author that very few people know, and a small publisher who is just starting out.

Check it out at

http://www.southtownrinkydinks.com
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E. Don Harpe
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 6:42 pm

From the same book, here's another life lesson learned, this one about ping pong, winning and losing, and the equality of the sexes.

__________________________________________


But I didn't beat everyone I played! Not quite.

During my Junior and Senior years in high school, James and I began to spend quite a lot of time going over to Trevecca College in Nashville.

Trevecca is a Nazarene school, and I was pretty sure that was where I wanted to go to college. Especially since we had met several people, read that girls, who went to school there, and they really wanted us to join them the next year.

During the times when I wasn't going with Patty, I usually dated a young lady from Trevecca named Lois Kolar, and Lois and her family were really pushing for me to come to Trevecca.

James and I tried to go over there once every few weeks, and it was during one of these visits that I learned a lesson about ping pong I've never forgotten. The fact that it was also a lesson about life makes it even more valuable.

James and I were visiting Lois one weekend, and we happened to go over to the student’s recreation room to see what was going on.

There were a couple of ping pong tables set up in the room for the students, and of course we started a game almost as soon as we got there.

James and I were pretty evenly matched, and the game seesawed back and forth for awhile, until all at once Lois caught my eye.

She introduced us to a pretty young girl who had been standing watching us play, and the girl said that she also loved to play ping pong, and would one of us like to play a game with her.

Sometimes always being the one who steps up is a burden that can turn out to be more than a Rinky Dink could carry, especially on shoulders as thin as mine were at the time.

But I don't remember that ever stopping me from jumping right in.

I'll play you, I said, and handed her a paddle.

I promised myself that I'd take it easy on her, her being a girl and all, and me being such a wham bam super duper ping pong player.

I stood up close to the table and very softly hit the hard white plastic ball in her direction.

With it's peculiar little hollow sound the ball bounced over the net and she returned it rather easily.

I hit the ball back to her, being careful not to hit it very hard.

She hit it back with a little more zing, causing me to lose the point.

I shot her a questioning look, a slightly raised eyebrow, and served the ball again, this time a little harder.

She drove it back at me like a bullet, the ball fairly screaming as it passed by me like a rocket on its way to the moon.

I shot her another look, served the ball with as much force as I could muster up, and when the ball passed me again, even harder than the last time, I knew I was in trouble.

She beat me three games cold, with me scoring almost no points, in spite of the fact that I played her as hard as I knew how, using every trick I had learned, and slamming the ball on almost every shot.

After the game I learned she had lived much of her life in Japan, and had learned that style of ping pong several years before I had. And was much better at it. In fact, she was a champion tournament player, and had beaten almost everyone she had ever played.

I didn't feel quite so bad about losing to her once I found out all of this, and I learned never to take any situation at face value.

Actually, the most valuable lesson I learned concerned the equality of the sexes.

And that lesson is that there ain't no equality of the sexes, boys. The girls will beat you almost every time, hands down, at almost everything that requires timing, speed, and a killer instinct.

______________________________

See, I told you I didn't always win.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 6:59 pm

And if a writer can't get published by Harper Collins, they should find something else to do?
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Carol Troestler
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 7:25 pm

Okay, I think it is all right for the best players to play most of the time. That's the idea of the fifth quarter. These kids didn't get to play because they weren't as good as the others. Now we're talking freshman basketball here and some of these kids are very short and perhaps they'll grow a foot in the next year and really be able to play.

And if the fifth quarter sounds like a pick-up game, it is. Remember there is six inches of new snow on the ground and those balls don't work too well under those conditions outside.

I like Marie's arrangement. That is what happens. The kids want the team to win and thus accept not playing if they aren't as good as the others. And I've seen kids honor the heroes on their teams.

And D. K., I think Shelagh was saying it is all right if one doesn't make it to Harper Collns, that one can still enjoy writing, like the kids that only play basketball for a couple of minutes per game.

I still think it takes innate talent, and strength and stuff like that. It is also working at it and enjoying the game. My granddaughter, the hockey player, works hard at hockey. She is also a student coach. She even goes to the rink when she isn't playing and watches games there. She's doing it the way you guys think she should and indeed it is paying off. And she knows she isn't as good as some of the team members, but she's getting there. And when someone makes a goal they all congratulate that person. And when they win, they all celebrate.

Carol
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E. Don Harpe
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 7:42 pm

My point all along has been that while the best players may always play, the rest of us can never quit trying to get better. We cannot become accustomed to, not settle for, mediocrity. We can’t stop keeping score, because that is how we figure out where we stand in relation to the other players. And yes, I believe that keeping score is important, even in a pick up game.

DK, I also think that there are some that will never make the team, regardless of how hard they play or how hard they try to learn, and yes, I think they should find something else to do. I may be one of those who will never be published by (a major) publisher, and I hope I have enough sense to know when the time comes for me to move on to something that perhaps I can do better.

Kids do not lose when they keep trying, neither do adults, and so long as we refuse to settle for a game in which there is nothing at stake, we will never be losers. A game worth playing is a game worth winning, and yet, a game lost is not an earth shattering event. I have won many games, I have lost quite a few also, and I have always played as hard as I knew how. I continue to do that with my writing, and I know that with this, as with most of the other things in my life, I will give it my very best shot, and when the time comes to move along, I’ll do so knowing that I wasn’t defeated, I merely lost one more game, and another one is just over the horizon.

Some of us may feel that because we haven’t signed a major publishing contract, we aren’t among the ones who will be playing the game. I choose to think that the sides are still being picked, and I will be one of the next players chosen.

As no one on this board has reached the point where we should move on, I know for a fact that there are no losers here. Everyone here is still a player, and from what I have seen, everyone here still has a chance of making the A team.
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Richard Stanbery
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PostSubject: Re: Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009   Differences and Similarities - 1930-2009 - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 21, 2009 10:36 pm

I guess that I will have to agree with E Don and Dick here. There are such things as absolute standards and expected performance. We had to measure up or we knew about it. I remember what a wise old Tennessee granny woman used to say to her brood about this..."If it aint right, what is it?"
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