| How To Get An Agent | |
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+8JoElle Carol Troestler Dick Stodghill thehairymob Shelagh lin Abe F. March RetiredName 12 posters |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:29 pm | |
| Marie, I've already posted a link to an interview of Michael Neff with Noah Lukeman here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] You might also find this useful before you contact an agent: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] |
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Jenny Four Star Member
Number of posts : 531 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : Sheffield, England
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:18 pm | |
| Maria, I've also posted a link to Noah Lukeman's free book "How to write a great query" in the query section. |
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Ann C. Crispin Two Star Member
Number of posts : 40 Registration date : 2009-01-22
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:06 pm | |
| Lin, I commented on Teresa Nielsen Hayden earlier in the thread. I have known her for many years. Marie was the only person who asked to see what I had to say, so I thought it best to send the info to her privately, rather than take up the board's time with a post that might well be regarded in a negative light. If there is interest, I will post what I have to say here, in this thread. I also have links to some articles I have done for Writer Beware Beware's blog on the subject of query letters, plus Victoria's posts on evaluating an agent's website and track record. I think that now I am a member, I can post links in here. -Ann C. Crispin |
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lin Five Star Member
Number of posts : 2753 Registration date : 2008-03-20 Location : Mexico
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:12 pm | |
| Yes, Ann. Like I said, you commented on her, but not the post that I was talking about and was the original source of this thread. I think I've said about four times now that it would be more interesting if people discussed the content rather than authorship. |
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Ann C. Crispin Two Star Member
Number of posts : 40 Registration date : 2009-01-22
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:23 pm | |
| I believe I said that I agreed with most of what Teresa said, but not all. We differ on a few crucial points. I also think she can be unnecessarily...brusque...in her delivery. -Ann C. Crispin |
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Carol Troestler Five Star Member
Number of posts : 3827 Registration date : 2008-06-07 Age : 86 Location : Wisconsin
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:33 pm | |
| Ann,
I think some of the problem here is that we all get lumped in one group. This is a very diverse group, writing in many different genres and with many differing experiences and goals in writing. It is difficult when we are presented with something that is supposed to be "THE" way to do things, when it just doesn't fit all of us.
I don't always agree with Lin, but I like his direct approach.
Carol |
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lin Five Star Member
Number of posts : 2753 Registration date : 2008-03-20 Location : Mexico
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:34 pm | |
| I believe I said that I agreed with most of what Teresa said, but not all.
We differ on a few crucial points.
I also think she can be unnecessarily...brusque...in her delivery.
Yes, you did say all that. And what I suggested about 5 times, including the post you just replied to, that it might be more helpful for people to comment on;
Ready?
THE CONTENT OF THE POST not the writer or her status or relationship/perception of.
No reason anybody has to do that, of course, but it's pretty weird to have all this discusion of a post without menitoning the post and for people to just keep repeating themselves about this writer without mentioning the writing that was posted.
Or maybe that's just me. |
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Ann C. Crispin Two Star Member
Number of posts : 40 Registration date : 2009-01-22
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:56 pm | |
| Teresa is an old friend. I would prefer to leave my commentary the way it is. The differences between our points of view should be obvious once my comments are posted. I will try to work on my reply and have it up tomorrow. -Ann C. Crispin |
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lin Five Star Member
Number of posts : 2753 Registration date : 2008-03-20 Location : Mexico
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:47 pm | |
| Teresa is an old friend.
I beleive you mentioned that.
Nobody said "dissect" Marie. What I have been saying was it seems a little pointless to keep talking about the writer without saying anything about the post itself. Yeah, the topic is "how to get an agent", I noticed that right off. How much of this discussion has been about "how to get an agent" and how much about, "I didn't write that but I know who did and they're wonderful"?
I'm looking forward to anything Ann has to say on the topic, and I'm sure others will look forward to information of that level. |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:40 am | |
| I would say to anyone reading this thread: be very wary of advice about the publishing industry that was written five years ago. If you are just starting out, the next five years will determine your career. In five years time, that advice will be ten years out of date. If you are researching the industry and (as everyone knows here, I am big on research) looking for up-to-date information, don't waste your time reading anything that was not written within the last five years.
Not all the links I have posted on this forum fall within that time period but the out-of-date information was for discussion purposes only. The onus is on writers themselves to keep a close eye on trends and be aware of how the publishing world is changing. |
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Dick Stodghill Five Star Member
Number of posts : 3795 Registration date : 2008-05-04 Age : 98 Location : Akron, Ohio
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:11 am | |
| True, Shelagh, and that leads back to the need for a good agent who knows your field for anyone interested in writing books of fiction. The agent keeps each member of his stable informed as to what they need to be doing so the writer is free to write. The agent knows when each bubble bursts and when new ones form. If the writers takes it upon himself or herself to keep apace of every change and every opportunity there will be little time for writing. I'm just glad it is of no interest to me and never has been. If it ever had been or were now I would concentrate my efforts on finding a good, reliable agent. From experience I would say to do that get involved in organizations in your field, attend conventions where you will have an opportunity to meet the top agents in that field and have a decent portfolio to show them. Another option is to make a name for yourself in the short story arena and attend those same conventions. I did that and had two of the top agents in the mystery genre wanting to represent me if I would write novel-length stuff, but that didn't interest me. Having the opportunity to mix with and socialize with agents is a surefire way of finding one to represent you if you are certain that is what you want to do. Don't say you don't have time or can't afford to get known in your field. Find the time or find the money because you can be certain your competitors will. |
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Carol Troestler Five Star Member
Number of posts : 3827 Registration date : 2008-06-07 Age : 86 Location : Wisconsin
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:28 am | |
| Marie,
I liked what you wrote better than what Teresa did. And the warning is good.
We might not have the credentials Teresa has, but we have experience.
My complaint is when "experts" talk down to authors, like in the need to write what readers want to read, although that statement could have been part of an interesting thread, if it were "dissected."
I think sometimes "experts" talk down to authors, or don't know us, or understand who we are. At this messageboard we are many different ages, write in many different genres, have many different experiences in writing and being published. And underneath we are respectful of authors, value the effort put into writing, appreciate efforts and successes, and know the difficulty in getting published.
Carol |
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Carol Troestler Five Star Member
Number of posts : 3827 Registration date : 2008-06-07 Age : 86 Location : Wisconsin
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:28 am | |
| Marie,
You sell yourself short. I am impressed by all you have done in research in publishing.
We all have people in our fields we look up to, but we also have expertise. We just aren't as famous!
And we've also got to believe in that expertise and that indeed is my problem and why I like the reaching for the sky thread.
We have to have a realistic outlook on what we have written, believe it is good but knowing others might disagree but not letting that immobilize us.
Carol |
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lin Five Star Member
Number of posts : 2753 Registration date : 2008-03-20 Location : Mexico
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:17 am | |
| Here's what "linkbait" means. Sometimes experts (and ALWAYS people who want to appear to be experts) dash off rot in order to fill up a blog or to post articles around that people will link to, thus bringing traffic to their site.
I probably should have the sense of when to shut up, and this might not be a future issue if cturkel has decided to get a clue or clamor for attention elsewhere, but this is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about when I caution about information passed around on the net and the need to cross-check and use common sense.
What we've had on this thread, if anybody's lost track, is some bozo posted advice here that is cheap, flawed and not in any way helpful at a practical level (unless somebody is going to do what nobody has done, point out some practical advice in that mess).
A big discussion ensued on whether the author has the "credentials" to make the mess palatable. Which many seem to think she does, although she hasn't really done any of the things she advises on, because she has a name, works for Tor (of all the ironic places) and is a friend.
Nobody had anything to say about the content (many obviously didn't even read it) but defended it because of credentials... defense now even extending to the fact that Gaiman, on whose blog it was posted, is a successful writer. It's been stressed how much connections validate what is said.
Int he next phase we have a totally inexperienced writer who has NOT gotten an agent of published a book giving HER advice.
This stuff takes on a life of its own that has nothing to do with its value.
Meanwhile Ann, arguably the only person on this forum whose advice on getting agents might be of interest and use, might post some advice here. I hope she does. |
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thehairymob Four Star Member
Number of posts : 890 Registration date : 2008-05-05 Age : 56 Location : Scotland
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:21 am | |
| In the end we all find our own way through the maze that the publishing industry has over the years thrown up. In this changing world the way that work yesterday may not work tomorrow but from the experience of the past you may find a gimmer of a breadcrumb that could lead you on on the journey. The only thing though is that it may not lead us to where we thought we were going. Very few people will get that best seller, so the best thing I have found is to write for myself, for my enjoyment. If my books sell I hope those that purchase them might enjoy the tale I have weaved. Reading this thread reveals that there is no one answer to how to get a publisher or agent. There is no one piece of advice that has the magic answer. There is only hard work for those of us that want to be read which only just begins when we write our first words placed on a page or typed onto a screen. As for advice we take what we need from it. The rest can easily be store in the recess of outr minds for all those little ideas that we believe we don't need, just incase something comes along to change our minds. After all life does like tossing us a curve ball for time to time. |
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Carol Troestler Five Star Member
Number of posts : 3827 Registration date : 2008-06-07 Age : 86 Location : Wisconsin
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:28 am | |
| Carol |
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lin Five Star Member
Number of posts : 2753 Registration date : 2008-03-20 Location : Mexico
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:53 am | |
| Oh, I consider myself the only source of real information and wisdom on this planet.
But since you consider "credentials" to be so important, could you share with us the nature of your publications? |
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RetiredName Four Star Member
Number of posts : 859 Registration date : 2008-12-29 Age : 55 Location : The Hub of the Universe
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:02 am | |
| - lin wrote:
- Oh, I consider myself the only source of real information and wisdom on this planet.
But since you consider "credentials" to be so important, could you share with us the nature of your publications? Lin you need to stop. You have no idea how publishing works. zero. |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:27 am | |
| Marie, Don't let Lin wind you up. You don't need to list your credentials. We respect YOU. The rest is for your C.V. -- we don't need it here. |
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lin Five Star Member
Number of posts : 2753 Registration date : 2008-03-20 Location : Mexico
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:32 am | |
| Oh, I consider credentials important, just keep pointing out that they don't replace common sense and internal consistency.
Satisfied? I was just wondering. And if you don't mind my saying so, having two vanity-published books out doesn't really make you much of an expert on getting agents.
Same goes for turkel, who is still lurking to dish out simplistic attempts at insult without any attempt to bolster anything he blurts.
Look, Marie, EVERYBODY HERE has some publishing experience (note the name of the forum) though most probably wouldn't cite poetry readings or secret books published by vanished presses like you and truckle.
And everybody here is still reaching for goals.
Most people here have something to add on the topic of publishing. You and turkel are the only two who keep trying to pass off information "above your level", telling people what to do when you haven't even done it yourself.
If I started telling people how to handle being on the Best Seller List, nobody would take it seriously.
Why am I bothering to do write this? |
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lin Five Star Member
Number of posts : 2753 Registration date : 2008-03-20 Location : Mexico
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:34 am | |
| Well, you know, Shelagh, I always think it's odd when people don't let you know what they done.
This is "Published Authors", right? Most people have links, or discuss their writing. I don't think it's too rude to ask what people are doing. Kind of peculiar when you have to ask, actually.
And I'm not trying to "wind up" her or truckle. Quite the opposite, actually. |
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RetiredName Four Star Member
Number of posts : 859 Registration date : 2008-12-29 Age : 55 Location : The Hub of the Universe
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:36 am | |
| No Lin, it is you are talking out of your butt. Seriously, you need to educate yourself before lecturing people. There people with decades of research in publishing, go find them and learn.
You really are embarassing youself. Just stop because you have no idea what you are talking about and it shows. |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:40 am | |
| Okay, you guys. You will have to call a truce. We know how you feel about each other and we don't need any more insults. My finger is on the delete button and I will start using it. |
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Shelagh Admin
Number of posts : 12662 Registration date : 2008-01-11 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:03 am | |
| - lin wrote:
- Well, you know, Shelagh, I always think it's odd when people don't let you know what they done.
This is "Published Authors", right? Most people have links, or discuss their writing. I don't think it's too rude to ask what people are doing. Kind of peculiar when you have to ask, actually.
And I'm not trying to "wind up" her or truckle. Quite the opposite, actually. Lin, The bashers on the forum you think is so wonderful made me give out information to justify myself. I did provide the information but I resented having to do so. I won't allow that to go on here. I am not going to ban you but I will find ways of stopping you upsetting other members here. We know how you feel about Chris. That's fine. Just leave it. Marie is being extremely tolerant and I'm not sure that you deserve it. Any more sniping at Marie and your posts will be deleted. |
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lin Five Star Member
Number of posts : 2753 Registration date : 2008-03-20 Location : Mexico
| Subject: Re: How To Get An Agent Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:17 am | |
| That is a very odd response, Shelagh. Actually you provide a link here and your work is well known to all of us.
I don't really have many feelings about Chris at all, actually. I have challenged some of his posts. He is now putting flames on every thread I post on, yet you are talking about deletion to ME????
I'd say any "sniping" with Marie is mutual. I wasn't even aware of her until she suddenly popped on wrangling with me on every thread turkel started this week.
I don't think it's out of line to ask people on this forum what they've done. Does anybody else?
And, I'd have to say, especially when they are making a big point about examining the credentials, rather than content, of posts? That will happen in ANY discussion. Guy down at the pub says, "Don't listen to those commentators, they never played football. Take my word for it." And somebody will say, "So where'd you play?" Perfectly natural. |
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