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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10720
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptySun Dec 27, 2015 2:03 am

Yes, those were the days of our childhood.  Days that will live in our memory forever.  Cowboys and Indians were a big thing.  We played games after choosing sides on who would be the Cowboys and who would be the Indians.  Most wanted to be the Cowboys - the good guys.  I preferred playing the role of the Indians.  I've often wondered why I chose that role.  It may have had something to do with siding with the oppressed.  Perhaps that's why I still take the side of the oppressed.  The Cowboys had to carry those six-shooters (made of plastic) while the Indians used bow and arrow.  We made our own bows.  I cut a flexible stick, tied a string to each end, made it tight and then made arrows.  It actually worked and could be dangerous.  The six-shooters shot blanks while the arrows were real.  Fortunately the force behind the arrows was weak and rather harmless even when hitting the mark.

As for the song I posted sung by Roy Rogers and Dale Evans, I was more interested in the words than who sang it.  I was drawn to: "Have faith, hope and charity."  With all the rhetoric by some Presidential Candidates, I felt it appropriated.  Charity doesn't fit with the GOP. They don't want to give, but rather take.  That is also evident with the churches that always want money.  Seldom does one hear of them giving to the needy, but I do hear how they use the money to buy new jets and build mega churches.
 
Thy lyrics to the song:
Have faith, hope and charity
That's the way to live successfully
How do I know, the Bible tells me so

Do good to your enemies
And the Blessed Lord you'll surely please
How do I know, the Bible tells me so

Don't worry 'bout tomorrow
Just be real good today
The Lord is right beside you
He'll guide you all the way
Have faith, hope and charity
That's the way to live successfully
How do I know, the bible tells me so

So, have faith, hope and charity
That's the way to live successfully
How do I know, the bible tells me so

Do good to your enemies
And the Blessed Lord you'll surely please
How do I know, the Bible tells me so
Don't worry 'bout tomorrow
Just be real good today
The Lord is right beside you
He'll guide you all the way

Oh, the Bible says have faith, hope and charity
That's the way to live successfully
How do I know, (oh, how does he know)
How do I know, (oh, how does he know)
The Bible tells me so

The key words: “faith, hope, charity” and  “do good to your enemies” don’t seem to fit with today’s thinking with refugees, seniors or the unemployed nor does it fit with the warmongers who want to spend more on weapons and make war.
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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10720
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptyWed Mar 23, 2016 3:14 am

We so often hear about requests for prayers and those who say that they are praying for someone.  It makes me wonder what form a prayer should take.
We think of God as “all knowing and all powerful”.  Are prayers are like petitions? 
If a prayer is made to a God that is all-knowing and one that has the capacity to hear and remember,  does one need to repeat a prayer as though he may have forgotten?  IMV, once a prayer (petition) is made; shouldn’t the follow-up be one of thanks for hearing the prayer instead of repetition? 
If my wife or a friend makes a request I am insulted, even pissed, if they continue to remind me.  I don’t think that God would be pissed, but I would assume that he would wonder if my initial request was serious and if I had faith that he heard my petition and would act on it in his own time.  In written prayers, we hear “Thy will be done”.  If we believe that his will is to be done, it will happen.  It often sounds like a cop-out to say, “I left it in God’s hands.”  Recently I viewed again the movie about the civil war and the prayers before each battle made by General Lee.  He always ended his prayers with: “Thy will be done.”  It can be assumed that “God’s Will” did not favor Lee winning the battle at Gettysburg.
As George Carlin said in his Video: “Religion is Bullshit” where he talked about “God’s Divine Plan”.  Are we petitioning him to change his plan?  If he has a divine plan, why bother praying if he will do what he wants anyway?  Carlin makes valid points in this comedy routine.  When we pray are we talking to a mythical someone or do we believe that he exists?  If that is the case, why not treat God with reverence and respect instead of some person with dementia?
I have no handle on prayers.  I believe that energy surrounds us and that the energy is universal. Sending positive energy for a specific purpose is much like praying, IMV.  We want results when we send energy.  Are our thoughts the same as saying something verbally?  I believe they are, but then again, that is my own personal view.  Is thinking of someone and wishing them well the same as saying a prayer?  
Has anyone else thought about the above?  If so, have you reached any conclusions?
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

Number of posts : 2557
Registration date : 2009-04-27

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 24, 2016 6:53 pm

Abe F. March wrote:
We so often hear about requests for prayers and those who say that they are praying for someone.  It makes me wonder what form a prayer should take.
We think of God as “all knowing and all powerful”.  Are prayers are like petitions? 
If a prayer is made to a God that is all-knowing and one that has the capacity to hear and remember,  does one need to repeat a prayer as though he may have forgotten?  IMV, once a prayer (petition) is made; shouldn’t the follow-up be one of thanks for hearing the prayer instead of repetition? 
If my wife or a friend makes a request I am insulted, even pissed, if they continue to remind me.  I don’t think that God would be pissed, but I would assume that he would wonder if my initial request was serious and if I had faith that he heard my petition and would act on it in his own time.  In written prayers, we hear “Thy will be done”.  If we believe that his will is to be done, it will happen.  It often sounds like a cop-out to say, “I left it in God’s hands.”  Recently I viewed again the movie about the civil war and the prayers before each battle made by General Lee.  He always ended his prayers with: “Thy will be done.”  It can be assumed that “God’s Will” did not favor Lee winning the battle at Gettysburg.
As George Carlin said in his Video: “Religion is Bullshit” where he talked about “God’s Divine Plan”.  Are we petitioning him to change his plan?  If he has a divine plan, why bother praying if he will do what he wants anyway?  Carlin makes valid points in this comedy routine.  When we pray are we talking to a mythical someone or do we believe that he exists?  If that is the case, why not treat God with reverence and respect instead of some person with dementia?
I have no handle on prayers.  I believe that energy surrounds us and that the energy is universal. Sending positive energy for a specific purpose is much like praying, IMV.  We want results when we send energy.  Are our thoughts the same as saying something verbally?  I believe they are, but then again, that is my own personal view.  Is thinking of someone and wishing them well the same as saying a prayer?  
Has anyone else thought about the above?  If so, have you reached any conclusions?

James 4:3  "You ask and you do not receive, because you are asking for the wrong purpose."
That leaves two questions? "Who is God talking to, and what is the right purpose?"

Is God talking to those who do not follow his laws or Christians who are trying to?
Christians are servants of God. What should a servant ask for? Something that will please them, or something to serve God?
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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10720
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Age : 80
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 24, 2016 10:10 pm

As Don Stephens wrote in a post.  "God answers all prayers.  Sometimes the answer is No."
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

Number of posts : 2557
Registration date : 2009-04-27

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 24, 2016 10:50 pm

Abe F. March wrote:
As Don Stephens wrote in a post.  "God answers all prayers.  Sometimes the answer is No."

Don Stephens is wrong. God does not answer all prayers. Jesus said to pray to the father through him. You can pray to God until the cows fly backward over the moon, and God will not hear them unless the prayers go through Jesus.  And why would God hear a prayer from somebody who does not believe Jesus is his son? 
God created humans to serve him, he did not create humans so he could be their magic genie and answer their wants.
You Abe have made it clear you do not believe in God YHWH, or that Jesus is his son. You have said you believe in some power, but is that a pass to life? No it is not. Jesus said, "All who believe in him will have life." If that statement is true, All who do not believe in him will have death. 
I have read comments on this forum where people are very sick, and members say things like, "Together our energy of love or whatever will give you power." That is called separation from God. We all stand before death Abe. Some have proven out God is real, Jesus is real, and the written word is real. That is not to say those who have not are bad people, but God is very clear what one has to believe, not just hope for, but have proven he is real and want to serve him because they love him, and you can't love him if you don't know him and have proven he is real. 
This I know is truth; You can talk to people until you are blue in the face, but if God finds a person unfit for what he wants, there is nothing anybody can say to change them...and there is nothing an unbeliever can say, or do to change a believer.
And no, the two will not meet in the middle somewhere. To do so would be to join the unbeliever.
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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March

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Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 24, 2016 11:57 pm

I find it interesting when reading posts on FB and even on this forum where people claim to know the mind and will of God.  They will say that God wants you to do this or that.  They claim to know why God created us and what he wants us to do.  I presume that they base their claims on their interpretation of biblical scripture that they call “God’s word” or “The word of God”.  It is recognized that man wrote these words.  They make many assumptions.  I have stated that I believe in a higher-power – a universal intelligence.  One can place a label on that and call it “God”.  I don’t think that the world was created by accident nor do I think that any religion has a handle on that mystery.   We recognize the many religions and sects within those religions (denominations) were created by interpretation of some scripture.  From the ancients believing in many Gods to more recent religions believing in one God, they all revere some super-natural power.  How they communicate with this power is another “form of worship” that man decided was appropriate.  I can’t explain how or why I feel the way I do and it is not important to explain it to anyone or even worse, try to convince anyone that my interpretation is right.  Enough said.
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dkchristi
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dkchristi

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptyMon Apr 25, 2016 6:48 am

Abe, it is a comfort to those who have absolute beliefs.  There is no point in disturbing that comfort as finding peaceful meaning in life is a critical journey.  For me, it is all unknown. What continues to amuse me, however, is that those with concrete beliefs don't generally live them.  i don't condemn them for that because absolutes are impossible to follow forever.  All life is in constant change. It seems rational to me that our beliefs would also be changing and growing and evolving.

I enjoy intelligent science fiction because it often takes absolutes to their ultimate tests and conclusions.  I guess the movie, The Village, is sort of like that. It reminds me of the Koreshans who made their home near me, a religious sect with absolute beliefs.  Fascinating to study.

The universe is amazing beyond comprehension.  To the ancients, their village was the end of their universe. Even they sought explanations for the unknown. I often felt when alone on the sailboat in a raging storm that there probably were few atheists at sea in a storm - because at life's most terrifying moments, we call out in prayer.  It is what we have been taught as a means of comfort.

I, too, pray.  I meditate.  I ask for the prayers of others.  I say, "you are in my prayers." These are all things I have been taught from an early age.  They comfort me, too. Whether they have any impact in the universe at large or even in my own life, what my mind believes is true for me just as what others believe is true for them.
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Shelagh
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Shelagh

Number of posts : 12624
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptyMon Apr 25, 2016 8:01 am

What DK said.

_________________
Praying - Page 2 81KU-cLOw3L._SX110_ Praying - Page 2 41C9GeFDNWL._SX110_ Praying - Page 2 41%2BmGkZJdOL._SX110_ Praying - Page 2 51eDGllZXhL._SX115_ Praying - Page 2 41y7VHKoszL._SX115_ Praying - Page 2 51Zs4N4T4eL._SX115_
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

Number of posts : 2557
Registration date : 2009-04-27

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptyMon Apr 25, 2016 8:35 am

Abe,  you have said many times, “People make their own interpretations of the scriptures.”  I’m sure that is true in many cases for those who have not made a clear scientific study of scriptures. In genesis 40:8 it is clear, “All interpretations belong to God.”  A study of the scriptures prove for every scripture there is a clear understanding of what is said in other scriptures.  Science and archeology are not separate from scriptures, all three go hand in hand. Yes there are scientist, and archeologist who go against proven fact such as a world flood where the proof is great. If any agree with the proof they would have to rewrite world history. Those who have embraced the proof have found their self scoffed at, and often put out of the community of science and archeology.
The computer has become a world library. Even a child today can dig through the truth, and false information on the net and come to a conclusion of what has and has not been proven. Any who do a study of scriptures with the aid of science and archeology understand those who refuse to turn away from self freedom are standing against God. Freedom was first taken by a creature who rebelled against God, Satan. Under Gods law all are compelled to follow the laws set down by God. They are not allowed to deviate from these. A loyal servant of God stays within Gods laws out of love. This word FREEDOM is the cry of the rebel…those who want to be free from Gods laws. Here in America the cry has always been FREEDOM. Strange, for a country that cries FREEDOM, why are more people than in any other country in the world put in jail for breaking its laws? People believe they have the freedom not to believe and follow Gods laws. I tell you the truth Abe…those who rebel against God who created all things not tainted by Satan, will come to the same end as Satan…non-existence. All are free to follow who they will.
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Al Stevens
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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 28, 2016 12:56 pm

Abe, if God is indeed omnipotent as we are taught, why would He have wants and needs or care about ours? God "wants" us to love him and behave? Then he would wave a metaphorical arm and it would be. Couldn't be any more difficult than creating a solar system.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 28, 2016 2:31 pm

Just for the sake of discussion, lets say God is real. His power is un-limited. He can do anything. Question: Why did God make man in his image? He could have made man into any image. He did not make animals in his image, nor any angelic creatures, only human creatures. I have never heard any religious teacher expand on this subject…”Why did God make man in his image?” The scriptures also show God never does anything without a purpose. Did he have a purpose in making man in his image? Jesus told his disciples, “If you have seen me you have seen the Father.”  Was he saying God looked just like him? or God also looked like he looked…a man. 
The scriptures say that at the end of Jesus 1,000 year rule over the human family, the Heavenly city of Jerusalem will come down to earth, and God will reside with man.
My reasoning is only my own and I am not speaking for God, but if I was God and going to reside on earth, I would want creatures that looked like me…human. Having un-limited power I could create them to speak and act like I wanted them too…just like robots. Or I could let them control how they acted.  Those who have a wife, or husband…would you rather have a robot, or a real live mate? 
Yes God could have made humans any way he wanted. He is the God of love. He wanted living beings that looked like him, human, each with their own personally. True all will have to follow Gods laws, but like here on earth now, we live under laws for the good of all of us.
Each of us is different. We like being who we are. Good has destroyed millions of people. He says of himself, “I am a life giver and a killer.” What kind of people did he kill? Were they good people that wanted peace, or people who would never want to follow Gods laws? Those he killed with the flood were bad…very bad, and would never be able to change. Some of their seed got through the flood on the arch…one was a son of Noah, Ham. That is another story religious leaders don’t talk about…what Ham did.
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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 28, 2016 11:51 pm

Dom, I congratulate you on your search for truth.  Unfortunately your primary source, the Bible, is not infallible.  Someone recently posed the question:  How did two Penguins from Antartica make their way to the Middle East and board a boat made by a 500 year-old man? Genesis 5:32-10:1
He was 600 years old when the flood came. 
Credibility seems to be lacking and only those with faith in the unknown and unseen can accept what is written about unverifiable events.  I congratulate those who take what is written on faith.  As DK said, it is a comfort to many.  My mother is a good example of that.  She believed the Bible without question.  Unfortunately much of the intepretation came from Pastors who decided what it meant.  Her faith sustained her through the good and bad times.  She prayed without ceasing.  Before her death, she was living with my sister who said:  "Mom is ready to go.  She wants to be free of pain and looks forward to heaven."  It was not long after when she suffered a stroke and died before entering the hospital.  It was sad to see her go while at the same time a comfort to know that she was at peace in her passing.

George Carlin with his comedy routines spoke much about religion and God causing people to think.  Thinking is rare these days.  Most people rely on someone to tell them what events mean and that makes them vulnerable to the self-interests of the religious and political hucksters.

IMV, there is no one alive that can claim to know the truth about our origins and our final destination.  Soap-operas and movies say: "Be true to yourself, Listen to yourself, Follow your heart."  As Jean-Jacques Rousseau stated: What I feel to be good - is good.  What I feel to be bad - is bad."  I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Rousseau.  Our gut tells us much if we listen to it.  Where that gut-feeling comes from is another subject for debate.  There are instincts that we are born with just as the instincts possessed by animals are there for protection.  In the end, we are responsible for what we choose to believe and that choice may be those undefined instincts or gut-feelings we get.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptyFri Apr 29, 2016 7:31 am

Abe, Either my writing is not clear, or you have skipped over all of my post. You keep going back to, “Religion, and the bible are not understood, nobody knows the truth, etc.”
I have made my stand clear on religion, and the bible. Let me make it one more time:
“ALL RELIGIONS ARE FALSE AND NOT FROM GOD. THE BIBLE WAS BUILT BY CONSTINTEN WHO WAS AND DIED NOT BELIEVING IN GOD. THE BIBLE IS MAN MADE AND NOT FROM GOD.

I believe in science, archeology and the scrolls. If it can’t be proven I put it in the section,”UNKNOWN.”
Here are a few facts I stick with:  Science and Archeology have proven there was a global flood. Half of the scientific world believes in a global flood and half does not.  Archeology has found tons of proof world wide there was a world flood.
The scrolls can be proven to have credibility. There are over fifty scrolls. Only four were used to build the Christian bible, and much  of that was changed. I would buy the Brooklyn Bridge from Al Sharpton before I believed in the bible. 

You keep going back saying, “Nobody can prove the bible is Gods word, etc.” 
Abe, you are correct, the bible can’t be proven to be Gods word…BECAUSE IT IS NOT GODS WORD.’ Listen to what you are saying. “NOBODY USING THE BIBLE CAN PROVE ANYTHING,” CORRECT. “RELIGIONS PROVE NOTHING.” CORRECT.

RELIGIONS AND THE BIBLE ARE NOT FROM GOD AND THEY ARE FALSE.
I suggest you read the scrolls. Why? Because they prove what has taken place, and what is going to take place. Or you can stay as you are, and follow your gut…did you ever think that maybe your gut is not talking about what is true, but is just upset over something you ate?
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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March

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Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptyFri Apr 29, 2016 10:46 am

Dom, I think we finally agree.  Sorry if my comprehension of your posts led me to believe otherwise.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Praying   Praying - Page 2 EmptyThu Mar 29, 2018 4:35 pm

I think the Bible is true.  There is enough for us to saved..   Jesus died for us
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