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Charlie Moore
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Charlie Moore

Number of posts : 213
Registration date : 2008-08-06

Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyWed Apr 23, 2014 12:16 pm

I must say I enjoy this forum. While I don't post daily I do visit often. Topics are presented and as I can see discussed mostly in a civil manner. An occasional outburst or question of a person's motive is brought forth, but it always seems to fade away. That is possibly due to the reality that most everyone here has becomes friends on some level and many tend to agree with each other on many issues.

Politics are fun to discuss and debate. Whether or not George Bush is more of a villain than Jane Fonda is also fun to discuss. But neither really rank up there with what is important. Not in the grand scheme of things. If we are to discuss something of great importance it has to be something that has eternal perspective. Such a thing usually is grounded in religion or spirituality. I will start just such a discussion.

The idea of the eternal is real. In Adam all men will fall (i.e. die a temporal death). In Christ all will rise from the grave (through the gift of Christ's atonement, the greatest gift ever given to mankind). It becomes obvious from the previous that I believe Jesus is the Christ, the great Redeemer, the Savior of this world.

But here in the real world not everyone believes as I do and saying time will prove me right isn't something I care to do, because it normally causes people to become even stronger in their own beliefs. It is not my intention to convert anyone to believe as I do. People usually find their own source for conversion. It is my responsibility, however, to speak in mild tones about the things truly important and worth talking about. When I was younger my brother and I argued about God heatedly. As we grew older our positions did not change, but we discontinued the argument and as brothers we remain close. I believe the discussion of religion, the spirit and the role of Jesus can be discussed civilly by people with different viewpoints and ideologies. As a Latter-Day Saint (Mormon) I believe in the Bible (in as far as it is translated correctly it holds many great truths). I also believe the Book of Mormon to contain the word of God as well as the Doctrines and Covenants (these being books of scripture within my religion). I believe there is a prophet on the earth today and I believe revelation from God continues in this day.

In the real world it is our responsibility, our obligation, indeed our duty to seek out the truth of things eternal. In this I encourage everyone to search the innermost fibers of your soul. Be true to your heart. Don't let the liberal or conservation mold who you are. Don't let the Jew or Gentile make your decisions for you. Listen to what you will and believe what you will. But let your own heart be your guide. If you do this you rejoice or find anguish of yourself and that is truly important. It is important to God.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

Number of posts : 2557
Registration date : 2009-04-27

Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyWed Apr 23, 2014 9:42 pm

Charlie,
Because you believe in God, and his son Jesus, I would like to ask you a question, but first please read this statement:
"As Christians, we believe we can always trust Gods word. What he said yesterday, will be just as true tomorrow. We also believe he has never, and will never fail in anything he does. He can be trusted in what he says, and does."
This is my question. "Do you believe the above statement?"
Please do not answer swiftly. Take time to read it over, and think about it. Take a day, or two, weeks, even months…talk to friends about the statement…reply when you feel you are sure you agree, or disagree with the statement. When you have replied, I will explain why I have asked the question.
Domenic
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Charlie Moore
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Charlie Moore

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Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptySat Apr 26, 2014 8:32 pm

I notice the statement is in quotation marks. Who said it? When a Christian says God they are referring to Jesus Christ. Yes, I do believe Jesus is the same (in terms of His purpose and goals) yesterday, today and tomorrow. It does not change. He does the will of the Father. One thing central to the plan of salvation is the God given right to choose for ourselves which path we follow through mortality. It is why Abe views things his way, you have your views and beliefs and I have mine. In the end Jesus will exercise a final judgment on everyone. Our works and deeds, as well as our beliefs, the entire scope of our lives will be looked upon. And we will move on to whatever the Lord (Jesus) determines we have earned.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

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Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptySat Apr 26, 2014 9:40 pm

I said the statement that is in quotation marks? Again, here is the statement:

"As Christians, we believe we can always trust Gods word. What he said yesterday, will be just as true tomorrow. We also believe he has never, and will never fail in anything he does. He can be trusted in what he says, and does."

It is a basic statement one could ask a Christian. I just asked if you agreed, or disagreed with it?

Was there something about the question, or statement that offended you?
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Charlie Moore
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Charlie Moore

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Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptySun Apr 27, 2014 4:08 pm

I was not offended by your statement and I do agree with it.

Jehovah of Old Testament times and Jesus of the New Testament are one in the same. He was Jehovah when He gave Moses the Ten Commandments and Jesus when He made Peter and James and other disciples fishers of men.

Respond, if you will, to my above statement. I appreciate the conversation.

Here is a verse I will share. From Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them."
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

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Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptySun Apr 27, 2014 5:58 pm

Charlie Moore wrote:
I was not offended by your statement and I do agree with it.

Jehovah of Old Testament times and Jesus of the New Testament are one in the same. He was Jehovah when He gave Moses the Ten Commandments and Jesus when He made Peter and James and other disciples fishers of men.

Respond, if you will, to my above statement. I appreciate the conversation.

Here is a verse I will share. From Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them."


I did not know Jesus, and God were the same to those of the LDS faith? Many other faiths also believe that.



Here is the reason I asked the question;



If you believe this statement…"As Christians, we believe we can always trust Gods word. What he said yesterday, will be just as true tomorrow. We also believe he has never, and will never fail in anything he does. He can be trusted in what he says, and does."



And I agree also, we can trust what god says as truth, and what he does always works. In the book of Genesis, God created the heavens, and the earth. He created Adam, and the women to multiply, fill the earth, and to care for the earth, for him.



Satan made an effort to disrupt this plan. The results of Satan’s effort in that direction, caused Adam, and the women to sin, and fall out of favor with God.



Now here is my question Charlie: “If Gods plans never fail, which I believe they do not, Why do some religions teach, The Good will go to Heaven, and the Bad to Hell?”

That would mean God changed his plan...that it did not work?
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Charlie Moore
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Charlie Moore

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Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyMon Apr 28, 2014 10:51 am

We come to the earth to live as mortal beings for the purpose of being tried and tested. Satan is continuously exerting his influence on mankind in an effort to get us to sin (to reject God.) For each of us who reject God Satan has claimed a small victory. God's plan of salvation means we must prove ourselves worthy to return to Him. We must learn all we can of Him and as we learn we must accept Him and do as He commands.

A person who says they can't understand how a God of Love would allow certain acts to occur are not truly in tune with the spirit of God. If they were they'd never question God nor the things He allows to happen. All things pertaining to the purpose of God will be made known to man in God's time.

The reward of returning to the presence of the Father (God) is for the righteous. Sinners will be cast out. We have our agency and we choose our path. If we ask God for direction He gives it to us. However, our right to choose is always intact. What will happen according to God will happen. Nothing about God's eternal plan has changed and it will not change.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

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Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyMon Apr 28, 2014 11:35 am

Charlie Moore wrote:
We come to the earth to live as mortal beings for the purpose of being tried and tested. Satan is continuously exerting his influence on mankind in an effort to get us to sin (to reject God.) For each of us who reject God Satan has claimed a small victory. God's plan of salvation means we must prove ourselves worthy to return to Him. We must learn all we can of Him and as we learn we must accept Him and do as He commands.

A person who says they can't understand how a God of Love would allow certain acts to occur are not truly in tune with the spirit of God. If they were they'd never question God nor the things He allows to happen. All things pertaining to the purpose of God will be made known to man in God's time.

The reward of returning to the presence of the Father (God) is for the righteous. Sinners will be cast out. We have our agency and we choose our path. If we ask God for direction He gives it to us. However, our right to choose is always intact. What will happen according to God will happen. Nothing about God's eternal plan has changed and it will not change.

Charlie, You said:  "Nothing about God's eternal plan has changed and it will not change."

I agree with you Charlie. Gods plan was for man to live on earth, and care for it for God . So why do some religions teach man will go to heaven? Would that not be a change of plan?
Where in the Bible does it say: "Man come to the earth to live as mortal beings for the purpose of being tried and tested?"
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Charlie Moore
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Charlie Moore

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Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyTue Apr 29, 2014 9:45 am

When I said man comes to the earth to be tried and tested I was using my own words to tell what I believe is our purpose for gaining a mortal body. Here is some scripture to support my belief. Taken from James 1:1-14 

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wafereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:

10 But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.

11 For the sun in no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when his is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

There are other verses related to this topic, but these address it in a straightforward manner. Taken from the King James Version.

Remember that things I say concerning God and the things pertaining to religion, the spirit and other spiritual things may come from other books of scripture accepted within my own faith.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyTue Apr 29, 2014 10:51 am

Yes I understand you have the book of Mormon. I have talked to many in the LDS faith. Let me ask you the same question I asked them; If the two books are in conflict on a subject, which do you stand by?
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Charlie Moore
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Charlie Moore

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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyTue Apr 29, 2014 4:25 pm

Yes, the Book of Mormon is important to those of the LDS faith. I don't know what others have said to you concerning your question, but this is how I feel about it.

I believe the Book of Mormon (the actual full title being Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ) contains a fullness of Christ's gospel and His teachings. I believe there is no error in translation from original writings. It supports the teachings of the Bible and while different words may have been chosen pertaining to similar topics I know of no instances of any conflict between the two books.

I hope this helps with your question.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyTue Apr 29, 2014 8:19 pm

The Bible says man was designed  to never die, live on earth, and care for it for God, Gods plan will not fail, or be changed. Does the book of Mormon also support that?
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Charlie Moore
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Charlie Moore

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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptySun May 04, 2014 1:59 pm

Have you ever considered reading the Book of Mormon? Not for the purpose of conversion to a church, but simply to decide for yourself how it supports or doesn't support the Bible in your view. I can post verse after verse that I feel is appropriate. However, each person draws their own conclusions based upon many factors. The Book of Mormon works for me because I was raised in the faith. I was taught from my youth in the ways I believe to be the Lord's and I continue to believe the same today as I approach 60 years.

If you have more thoughts or other questions for me I'd love to continue our conversation.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

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Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptySun May 04, 2014 2:24 pm

Charlie Moore wrote:
Have you ever considered reading the Book of Mormon? Not for the purpose of conversion to a church, but simply to decide for yourself how it supports or doesn't support the Bible in your view. I can post verse after verse that I feel is appropriate. However, each person draws their own conclusions based upon many factors. The Book of Mormon works for me because I was raised in the faith. I was taught from my youth in the ways I believe to be the Lord's and I continue to believe the same today as I approach 60 years.

If you have more thoughts or other questions for me I'd love to continue our conversation.

Thank you Charlie,

May I ask, and please do not take this as trying to change your beliefs. It is a question I have asked others of the LDS faith. You believe in the Bible, and also the book of Mormon. It is my understanding the people of your faith believe the two books put together, make the complete book…am I correct?
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Charlie Moore
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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptySun May 04, 2014 4:54 pm

I will say this on a personal level. The Bible deals with the people who lived primarily in what is the current day middle east (i.e. Arabia, Egypt, Palestine, Israel etc). Prophets such as Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham tell their stories in the Bible. That is the Old Testament. The New Testament primarily deals with the earthly ministry of Christ and his apostles and disciples.

The Book of Mormon begins in Jerusalem with the prophet Lehi (who lived around 600 BC), about the time Jeremiah lived. God instructs Lehi to take his family into the wilderness. He does as he is commanded and eventually (at the continued direction of the Lord) arrives in the Americas.

I believe God communicates with many righteous people. All who live his commandments have the opportunity to hear his words. I believe the Book of Mormon is a testament that Jesus is the Christ. I also believe the Bible is a testament that Jesus is the Christ. Both books declare God is our Father. To say the Book of Mormon fulfills (or completes) the Bible is not completely accurate in my view. Both tell a story of Christ and his gospel.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptySun May 04, 2014 5:58 pm

Does the book of Mormon say how Lehi, and his family got to the Americas?
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Charlie Moore
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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyMon May 05, 2014 8:52 am

It does.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyMon May 05, 2014 9:07 am

Are you going to tell me how?
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyMon May 05, 2014 10:50 am

I am following this discussion in a learning mode and thank you both for exploring your beliefs for others to follow.
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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March

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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyMon May 05, 2014 11:17 am

Charlie, I don't know if I ever told you this, but I got to know more about the Mormons when I had a Mormon room mate in the USAF.  We spent many evenings talking religion.  When my good friend, Carol Nielson left the USAF, he stopped in my hometown enroute to Utah.  He attended my church.  He met the minister's daughter and they fell in love.  He confided to me that he had a huge problem.  He could never take this girl back to Utah as she wouldn't fit into his family and church.  By the same token, her father would not have approved of her marrying a Mormon.  In those days, more so than now, it was a real problem.  He left the girl behind and she was devastated.  I have lost contact with Carl and have no way of reaching him as there are many Nielson's in Utah.  If religion had not played a role, I believe that these two people would have had a good life together.

My boss in the USAF was a Dr. Harold Myers.  He was the Surgeon General in Ramstein, Germany.  When he retired and after I left the service, I went to visit him in Scottsdale, Arizona.  One day as we were driving through town, I inquired about the people in Scottsdale.  He said, "There are many Mormons here.  They are good people."  You would have had to know Dr. Myers to appreciate the high compliment.  Dr. Myers was not a religious person.  I find it refreshing when people recognize the goodness in people who live their religion.
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Charlie Moore
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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyMon May 05, 2014 4:17 pm

Thanks for following, Diane.

Yes, Abe, you've mentioned your USAF friend before. But not the details you mention in this recent post.

To the above question for Domenic. The first book in the Book of Mormon (First Nephi) explains the journey. I'll use my own words to capsulize.
The Lord instructs Lehi and his family to leave Jerusalem because there is rampant wickedness among the people which will bring to pass the destruction of Jerusalem. Lehi is told to travel into the wilderness, which he does. His family and some others reside the the wilderness for eight years. Around 592 BC the Lord instructs Nephi (Lehi's youngest son) to build a ship in which they will travel across the great waters. Following directions from the Lord they arrive in what they call at the time the promised land.

As I have said, this is found in detail in the first book. However, to cut and paste enough to tell the story completely would use up too much space. If you're interested in learning read the book. I am not trying to dodge any issue or your questions, but my views, while consistent with what I believe the Church teaches, they are just that, my views.

Incidentally, Lehi (Book of Mormon) is a direct decendant of Joseph, the son of Jacob, the son of Issac, the son of Abraham.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyTue May 06, 2014 7:36 am

Charlie,
How is the Book of Mormon proven to we the word of God?
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Charlie Moore
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Charlie Moore

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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyTue May 06, 2014 2:48 pm

How is it you accept the Bible? For me the Book of Mormon is accepted in the same way. Two books that speak of the same gospel. I personally believe in it because I have faith in the message being from God. If I have faith in Jesus then anything (all things) can be made known to me. Faith, a concept many struggle with, is the catalyst in all matters of the spirit.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo

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Here in the Real World Empty
PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyWed May 07, 2014 1:05 pm

Charlie Moore wrote:
How is it you accept the Bible? For me the Book of Mormon is accepted in the same way. Two books that speak of the same gospel. I personally believe in it because I have faith in the message being from God. If I have faith in Jesus then anything (all things) can be made known to me. Faith, a concept many struggle with, is the catalyst in all matters of the spirit.

How is it I accept the Bible? Because the Bible has many prophesies, and they have come true. If it did not have prophesies that have come true, I would not believe it.
It is because of that I can have faith the rest of it is true. Plus science, and 

Archeology have found much that proves the Bible true.

Did you know on the last page of the Bible is say,(Revelation 22:18) " If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in these scrolls."

Is not the book of Mormon an addition?
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Here in the Real World   Here in the Real World EmptyWed May 07, 2014 1:20 pm

I'm not part of this discussion, but the god of love in the new testament would not cause plagues any more than we cut off body parts for thievery or stone for adultery.   Anyway, addition to what things?  Addition of words?  Addition of things?  More pages?  A new interpretation?
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