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 This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.

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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 9:00 am

This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.



What took place in the Garden…why we age and die.



The Bible was written from the Scrolls. It should match…it does not. When the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, they matched the present scrolls the Bible was taken from.

This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.

 

When new evidence was brought forth from the Aramiac Targums confirming an omission in Genesis 4:1 (similar to that of 1 Samuel 11 in the Dead Sea Scrolls), Ted R. Weiland, a caustic and unyielding antichrist anti-seedliner, pronounced all such evidence as “Babylonian influenced.” When the Targum evidence is added to Genesis 4:1 in italics it would read thusly:

“And Adam knew his wife Eve, who was pregnant by Sammael [Satan], and she conceived and bare Cain, and he was like the heavenly beings, and not like earthly beings, and she said, I have gotten a man from the angel of the Lord.”

 

Two Seedline Taught In Dead Sea Scrolls, #1 | Clifton ...

Two Seedline Taught In Dead Sea Scrolls, #1 at Clifton A. Emahiser's Watchman Teaching Ministries official website at Christogenea.org. For Those to Whom the Covenant ...emahiser.christogenea.org/two-seedline-taught-dead-sea... - Cached
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 9:15 am

"Those who believe in the Scriptures?"  Well, that's one way to limit opinion.  However, I don't disbelieve what is written in the Bible, nor do I believe every word is truth.  It was perhaps truth as seen by the authors at the time for that time.  That does not mean I do not "believe" in the Bible.  Much of what is written there is related to oral history and stories passed from one person to another.  It is obviously a powerful book that has had much influence on the world.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 9:28 am

Dk,

The Bible has 66 books in it. If I asked 66 writers on this forum to each write a chapter of a book without knowing the plot, and having no contact with each other, and when all 66 had finished with their one chapter, I complied them into one book. All the writing may be good, but, would there be a story there from chapter one to sixty six that would make a complete story? I think not.

The writers of the Bible did not know what others were writing, nor did most live at the same time. but the complete book (all 66) have a complete story that goes together…do you not find that strange?
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 9:41 am

No.  It was a book recording oral history.  There were definitely familial connections, world events, etc. that were related.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 9:43 am

However, I have no quarrel with those with a literal belief in the Bible so long as they do not apply that literal interpretation to my life or the laws governing my life.  I do not have the appropriate education or experience to argue it from one perspective or the other.  My view only has the value of my opinion, nothing more; nothing less.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 10:09 am

dkchristi wrote:
However, I have no quarrel with those with a literal belief in the Bible so long as they do not apply that literal interpretation to my life or the laws governing my life.  I do not have the appropriate education or experience to argue it from one perspective or the other.  My view only has the value of my opinion, nothing more; nothing less.
dk,
This thread is not an effort to apply anything to those who do not believe in the scriptures...I said on the OP...
"This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures."

Perhaps I was not clear. Let me reword it.

"Those who do not believe in the scriptures may find they are wasting their time reading this thread,"
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 10:26 am

I repeat.  I did not say I do not believe in the Scriptures.  I believe they were written by well-intentioned men who recorded oral history and believed they were divinely inspired.  Some of what is written may be truth or may have been truth at the time written with the knowledge at hand.  Some may apply today but in more of a philosophical than literal sense.

However, I won't respond to this thread any further.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 11:49 am

Very clever, Dom.  If you want someone to read something, tell them not to do it.

Having read it, I am in agreement with DK's assessment.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 12:34 pm

I believe in the Scriptures.  I believe them to be the stories compiled by the groups that have formed the foundation for Western culture.

The Book of John begins with, "In the beginning was the Word."  At least that is the way it translates into English.   The Greek word was "logos," which doesn't translate well.  It was used by Greek philosophers to mean reasoned discourse, or often as a personification of the universal creative force that brought life into being.  The author of John used it in that sense, saying that the Christ was an incarnation of that force.  So the author of John is saying that the Christ is the Logos ("The Word was with God and the Word was God.")

A word, any word, is merely a sign which stands for an idea or image - a signifier for the idea or image.  It only takes on meaning within that context.  The "signified" word only has meaning through the interpretor of the signified.  (See de Saussure)  In other words (pun intended) meaning is determined by the listener of reader - the one who perceives it, and we all perceive based on our own experience, so the meaning differes slightly from one perceiver to another.

The meaning of the Scriptures, then, is determined differently by every reader ( or listener).

No one has a privileged perspective.

Just me.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 12:38 pm

Abe F. March wrote:
Very clever, Dom.  If you want someone to read something, tell them not to do it.

Having read it, I am in agreement with DK's assessment.

I have no idea the type people you associate with Abe, but I am not a trickster. As to your agreement with ck, you have made it know you don’t believe in the Bible…so why do you say you agree with ck?
I believe if I said I don’t believe in the Bible, you would say you do…does that give you a hint of how I see you?
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 12:47 pm

alj wrote:
I believe in the Scriptures.  I believe them to be the stories compiled by the groups that have formed the foundation for Western culture.

The Book of John begins with, "In the beginning was the Word."  At least that is the way it translates into English.   The Greek word was "logos," which doesn't translate well.  It was used by Greek philosophers to mean reasoned discourse, or often as a personification of the universal creative force that brought life into being.  The author of John used it in that sense, saying that the Christ was an incarnation of that force.  So the author of John is saying that the Christ is the Logos ("The Word was with God and the Word was God.")

A word, any word, is merely a sign which stands for an idea or image - a signifier for the idea or image.  It only takes on meaning within that context.  The "signified" word only has meaning through the interpretor of the signified.  (See de Saussure)  In other words (pun intended) meaning is determined by the listener of reader - the one who perceives it, and we all perceive based on our own experience, so the meaning differes slightly from one perceiver to another.

The meaning of the Scriptures, then, is determined differently by every reader ( or listener).

No one has a privileged perspective.

Just me.

 "In the beginning  was the word." This was written by Moses in Hebrew in the book of Genesis.  John expanded on it, showing the word, was a God, but not God the father when he wrote, "and the word was with God." This was written in Greek.

You comment is very good, but has little to do with the OP.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 12:59 pm

It has everything to do with the OP. Continue reading the post:



Quote :
A word, any word, is merely a sign which stands for an idea or image - a signifier for the idea or image. It only takes on meaning within that context. The "signified" word only has meaning through the interpretor of the signified. (See de Saussure) In other words (pun intended) meaning is determined by the listener of reader - the one who perceives it, and we all perceive based on our own experience, so the meaning differes slightly from one perceiver to another.

The meaning of the Scriptures, then, is determined differently by every reader ( or listener).

No one has a privileged perspective.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 1:04 pm

You know, I am grateful that I had catechism in Catholic and Lutheran church as I just don't have time today to put in depth reading of the Bible on my list.  I know enough to understand Christianity a bit but I'd rather put time into other powerful religious texts to understand other points of view that have spread as rapidly as Christianity.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 1:13 pm

Bereshith, the first word of Genesis, simply means "In the beginning." It does not include "logos," which was used by the author of the Book of John to show that Christ and the Greek Logos were the same concept. Both Hebrew and Greek post-dated the sources (JEP&D) for the Torah, which has been shown linguistically to have been compiled from at least four sources, rather than having been written by Moses, which is a non-Biblical tradition.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 1:18 pm

alj wrote:
It has everything to do with the OP.  Continue reading the post:



Quote :
A word, any word, is merely a sign which stands for an idea or image - a signifier for the idea or image.  It only takes on meaning within that context.  The "signified" word only has meaning through the interpretor of the signified.  (See de Saussure)  In other words (pun intended) meaning is determined by the listener of reader - the one who perceives it, and we all perceive based on our own experience, so the meaning differes slightly from one perceiver to another.

The meaning of the Scriptures, then, is determined differently by every reader ( or listener).

No one has a privileged perspective.

It can not be different, reader from reader. Did you not read Genesis 40:8?
"Interpretations belong to God."
You are saying because people see things different, scriptures could mean anything...you should tell that to God, maybe he is stupid?
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 1:28 pm

dkchristi wrote:
You know, I am grateful that I had catechism in Catholic and Lutheran church as I just don't have time today to put in depth reading of the Bible on my list.  I know enough to understand Christianity a bit but I'd rather put time into other powerful religious texts to understand other points of view that have spread as rapidly as Christianity.

I hear you. Books like the Bhagavahd Gita and the Tibetan Book of the Dead, for example, have much to tell us. When I was in Tokyo in 1969, I was lucky enough to find a little book of Buddhist parables in the bedstand drawer, much as we would find a Bible in the US. What is most interesting about those other sources is that one can perceive, in the similarities, that there is a universal message that can be found in all of them. That is what we can learn from the study of comparative mythology.

And I'm just remembering one of those Buddhist parables:

Quote :
Once a wise father returned to his home from a visit to the city. He saw that his house was on fire and chat his children were inside. He called to them, "Children! Come out or you will be burned!" but his children were busy at play and did not hear him, so he called again, "Children! Come and see the wonderful presents I brought for you!" whereupon the heard him, ran to him immediately, and were saved from the fire. For the wise father knew the truth, that we all need to be taught in words and languages that we are most able to hear.

It has been a while. That is as close as I can remember
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 1:30 pm

alj wrote:
Bereshith, the first word of Genesis, simply means "In the beginning."  It does not include "logos," which was used by the author of the Book of John to show that Christ and the Greek Logos were the same concept.  Both Hebrew and Greek post-dated the sources (JEP&D) for the Torah, which has been shown linguistically to have been compiled from at least four sources, rather than having been written by Moses, which is a non-Biblical tradition.

alj,
You have your tongue twisted so far around, you are talking about a subject you are trying to publish you know by pulling stuff from the web, from those who have never translated the scrolls.
I don't really care what you say, but just for the hell of it, "What are you trying to prove?" You have challenged me from my first day on this forum...is it because I don't think you are as smart, as you try to present yourself?
Just because you were a teacher, does not make you smarter than others...I know how teacher are. For the last ten years I have been teaching algebra teacher algebra...and most have been teaching for over ten years.
So please...back off.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 1:41 pm

We all pull stuff from the Internet - it's the Britannica of today.  I think Domenic it was your certainty that only you know exactly how to interpret the Bible that started the challenge to show that there are many interpretations.  It's not an attempt to make you less but rather to add to your perspective - it's not personal.

My best friend believes as you.  We have been friends for more than thirty years.  Any discussion she and I might enter is always ended when she says, "The Bible was written by God and I will not question the authority of God."  Well, who can argue with that one?  We might try on this forum, which we do. Certainty is comfortable.  I envy you that.  I have so much to learn.
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 1:47 pm

From Bible Hub:

Quote :
Pulpit Commentary:

Verse 8. - And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it - literally, a dream have we dreamt, and interpreting it there is none. This must be noted as a third peculiarity connected with these dreams, that both of their recipients were similarly affected by them, though there was much in the butler s dream to inspire hope rather than dejection. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? - literally, Are not interpretations to Elohim? i.e. the Supreme Being (cf. Genesis 41:16; Daniel 2:11, 28, 47). The Egyptians believed ὅτι ἀνθρώπων μὲν οὐδενὶ προσκέεται ἡ τέχνη μαντικὴ τῶν δὲ θεῶν μετεξετέροισε (Herod., 2:83). Tell me them, I pray you. Joseph's request implies that the consciousness of his Divine calling to be a prophet had begun to dawn upon him, and that he was now speaking from an inward conviction, doubtless produced within his mind by Elohim, that he could unfold the true significance of the dreams.

First, the verse, when read in context, indicates that the discussion had to do with dream interpretation, not that of Scriputre.

Second, God, in this verse, is a translation of Elohim (which literally means "the gods," rather than God.   And the use of the word, Elohim, indicates that this portion of Genesis came from the "E" epic, which came from a later time period that the  "J" epic, which was the earliest known source for the Genesis material/

Just sayin'
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 1:59 pm

dkchristi wrote:
We all pull stuff from the Internet - it's the Britannica of today.  I think Domenic it was your certainty that only you know exactly how to interpret the Bible that started the challenge to show that there are many interpretations.  It's not an attempt to make you less but rather to add to your perspective - it's not personal.

My best friend believes as you.  We have been friends for more than thirty years.  Any discussion she and I might enter is always ended when she says, "The Bible was written by God and I will not question the authority of God."  Well, who can argue with that one?  We might try on this forum, which we do. Certainty is comfortable.  I envy you that.  I have so much to learn.

dk, I do not interpret the Bible. I prove scripture out with other scriptures, then I check the scrolls to see if the scriptures have been changed. The scriptures are very clear as they stand.
I understand not everybody will understand the scriptures...God says he blinds the eye of the unbeliever.
I'm glad to see you have not left the thread.
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 2:03 pm

Domenic, to which "scrolls" are you referring? Are they actual scrolls? In what language are they written?
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 2:54 pm

I've never had any problem understanding anything I read in the Bible.  Sometimes the times in which it is written and the language is a bit confusing; however, there are plenty of scholars available to provide answers.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 5:41 pm

alj wrote:
Domenic, to which "scrolls" are you referring?  Are they actual scrolls? In what language are they written?


The scrolls;

Many of these make up the Bible, (book) and still others do not, but are used to reference.

The section of the Bible we call the Hebrew scriptures, were compiled from the scrolls known as, Torah ("teaching" or "law"), the Nevi'im ("prophets"), and the Ketuvim ("writings"). These contain twenty four scrolls divided into three parts.

The Greek scriptures are a collection of letters. These are letters referring back to The Hebrew scrolls, the teachings of Jesus, and instructions to groups of Christian followers.

One scroll most scholars consider a Holy Book, is the scrolls of Enoch, who is spoken of in the accepted scrolls. The Book of Enoch gives a pre-flood History.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are dated older than any other scrolls. These match the Scrolls used by the Hebrews scrolls, word for word.


The reason the Greek scriptures are excepted by those who believe Jesus was the promised Messiah is; He preformed all the things the prophecies in the Hebrew scrolls said the Messiah would do. He also had to prove his line of decent back to Abraham. These records giving the line of decent were in the Temple in Jerusalem. There were many before Jesus who claimed to be the Messiah, but did not perform all the things the scrolls demanded. Plus, they could not prove their line of decent back to Abraham. When the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, all Hebrew records were destroyed. This meant no Jew could prove their line of decent back any farther than the destruction of Jerusalem. The Messiah had to come before that destruction, and had to perform all the things the scrolls demanded. The Jews of today are still waiting for the Messiah to come. There is not one Jew today who can trace his/her line of decent back beyond the destruction of Jerusalem. This means the Messiah had to come before the records were destroyed.
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 5:49 pm

I know all this. You have referred to "the scrolls" as though you have access to them. I am asking if you have seen these "scrolls," and if you have read them in the original languages.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures.   This post is only for those who believe in the Scriptures. EmptySat Apr 12, 2014 6:02 pm

alj wrote:
I know all this.  You have referred to "the scrolls" as though you have access to them.   I am asking if you have seen these "scrolls," and if you have read them in the original languages.  



No I have only read the translations into English...by those who translate them. Have you read them in the original languages?
I can match words to the Hebrew...anybody can do that.

Have you seen the
Constitution of the United States, or the Bill of Rights? If not, how do you know they are real…kind of what you are asking me right? I have not seen the North, or South poles either, but I know they are there.



Why do you always try to make people out to be fools?
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