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 The Great American Class War

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alj
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PostSubject: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyThu Dec 12, 2013 10:29 am


Got this link from one my son shared of Facebook. It makes some strong points, I think:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-moyers/class-war_b_4432261.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

The Great American Class War by Bill Moyers

Quote :
The historian Plutarch warned us long ago of what happens when there is no brake on the power of great wealth to subvert the electorate.  “The abuse of buying and selling votes,” he wrote of Rome, “crept in and money began to play an important part in determining elections.  Later on, this process of corruption spread in the law courts and to the army, and finally, when even the sword became enslaved by the power of gold, the republic was subjected to the rule of emperors.”

We don’t have emperors yet, but we do have the Roberts Court that consistently privileges the donor class.  

We don’t have emperors yet, but we do have a Senate in which, as a study by the political scientist Larry Bartels reveals, “Senators appear to be considerably more responsive to the opinions of affluent constituents than to the opinions of middle-class constituents, while the opinions of constituents in the bottom third of the income distribution have no apparent statistical effect on their senators’ roll call votes.”

We don’t have emperors yet, but we have a House of Representatives controlled by the far right that is now nourished by streams of “dark money” unleashed thanks to the gift bestowed on the rich by the Supreme Court in the Citizens United case.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyThu Dec 12, 2013 10:40 am

I think more and more are becoming aware of the problem, but seem helpless to change it.  The only weapon we have is our vote and sometimes that doesn't seem to wield enough power.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyThu Dec 12, 2013 11:22 am

Agreed.  Unfortunately those who believe they benefit from the policies in the propaganda paid for by the Heritage Foundation, the Koch brothers, etc. allow this loss of political power by the electorate to continue.

Only through campaign reform and term limits on Senators and Representatives will we be able to stem the tide of purchased democracy.  It's unfortunate that the declining middle class thinks they will protect what they have left by clinging to the shirt tails of the very wealthy - as though it will rub off.  The reality is that extreme wealth supports extreme wealth.  Nothing or no one else matters.

Charity does come from the wealthy, however when you look at their charity as a percentage of their income and in light of the tax advantages it provides to enhance their lifestyle, the minimum wage worker who puts $10 in the church tray each Sunday is making a far greater contribution.

I know that people that I consider lifetime friends are so against the poor and disenfranchised that it has negatively impacted our friendships.  One was a love relationship.  It is possible to spend time with people of opposing political viewpoints, but when they have no recognition for the fraud against this country by global corporations with the support of our Congress and hone in instead against those at the bottom with no lawyers, no accountants, no support system and no representation - I lose respect.

There is one political platform - enrich the wealthy and increase their profit.  So far that has been accomplished by reducing union influence, lowering wages and benefits, laying off workers in droves, capitalizing on the benefits of mechanization instead of people (that capital expenditure with tax benefits), continuing past subsidies that are no longer relevant for corporate entities making exorbitant profits, and suckering their voting base into believing these activities represent patriotism and religious fervor.

Anyone wanting to attack the deficit knows it takes increased taxes, government employment to improve infrastructure and attract investment and new business development for new jobs in the private sector.  Denying needed benefits and services to the underclass is a crass move to pass the buck that is resting square in the pockets of the wealthiest corporate entities and their wealthy Congressional supporters.

And I repeat:  saving Social Security for those who have already contributed so much to build this great society of the U.S. only entails creating employment and making certain that social security taxes are paid for every penny of income - until it stops - and in every form - instead of cutting off payment when a threshold is reached.  What' the point of that?  Increasing the income of those already at the top by stopping their payment into the social security system?

And Medicare?  Medicare is not the issue.  The issue is the insane health care system run by the profiteers in pharmaceuticals, insurance, AMA, hospitals, clinics and all the product companies in which the whole bunch have their investments.  Since that's too complicated and politically hot to tackle, let's take away benefits from those who need them. 

Fortunately, a few brave news organizations have recently tackled pharma fraud against the people in need of pain medications and the over prescribing of orthopedic surgeries that enrich hospitals, surgeons and both through their investment in the parts that are installed in bodies during those surgeries.  The FDA is cracking down on the antibiotics in our food supply.  Note - those making the excessive profits at the expense of our health and pocketbooks are not policing themselves - it takes a government agency or a newspaper.


Last edited by dkchristi on Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyThu Dec 12, 2013 11:38 am

What DK said.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 1:47 am

Planned misinformation.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/26/powell-memo-gop-blueprint/
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 6:54 am

Ran across this one this morning:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-samuels/defending-the-middle-clas_b_715144.html

Quote :
Defending the Middle-Class: Why We Need Unions, Pensions, and Public Employees
by Bob Samuels, Huffington Post

Politicians and media pundits have joined the conservative effort to demonize unions, pensions, and public employees. In fact, if you landed on the planet today, you would think that the global financial meltdown was caused by greedy unionized public employees. Instead of blaming the super-wealthy for their huge gambling losses, there is a growing consensus claiming that the working poor and the downsized middle class are the cause of all of our problems.
---------------------------
Driving this attack on the middle class benefits and the working poor is the discovery by wealthy corporations and individuals that the best way for them to increase their earnings is to decrease the income and benefits of everyone else. In this move to concentrate wealth at the top, we find that nearly two-thirds of the income growth since 1979 has gone to the top 10 percent of US taxpayers. This tremendous concentration of wealth has been coupled with a decrease in tax rates for these wealthiest Americans, which in turn has resulted in giant state deficits and the reduction of needed social programs.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 7:15 am

It is a sad state of affairs.  The more this kind of information is broadcast, perhaps it will affect a change.  At least one can hope.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 7:30 am

The system does not work. Will a new system be better? In 1917 Russia proved the answer to that question...no.
Somewhere on earth, some fool has his finger on the red button. Do you know how to build a fire with two sticks?
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 10:26 am

I think more and more people are becoming aware of the reality day after day, Abe.  Awareness is the key to creating change.  We will no longer buy into the media hype.

Access to information is the highest form of power - even more than wealth, which is why it has been so important for these groups to control what we read and hear.

The internet is changing that.  The world will change with it.


Last edited by alj on Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 11:52 am

I don't agree.  I believe the U.S. will divide into a two-class society, an underclass and the privileged.  It's just that the higher end of the underclass won't admit they are not part of the club.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 12:14 pm

Time will tell, forgive me for hoping I'm right on this one.  Very Happy 

I still believe that we contribute to a greater possibility for positive outcomes when we focus on them.

We tend to get what we expect, but again, just me.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 3:55 pm

We've discussed the issue of positive energy before.  I believe in putting positive energy into the universe to accumulate and that it is, in fact, catching and expanding.   However, I also believe that to state a reality does not break the positive cycling of energy.  It's when only negative energy is exuded that its cumulative effects are powerful. It's not realistic to never experience or express a negative emotion or idea. Of course, good meds can influence a run of positive only...but there's usually a side effect.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 4:19 pm

Positive and negative are, as we've discussed before, relative matters that depend on one's perspective, and when we talk about the future, we aren't expressing a reality so much as projecting a possibility. To call that future possibility a belief gives it even more strength to develop into a reality down the line.

The basis of this thread has been to express and make public certain ideas which many of us would see as negative, so they are certainly not being denied or ignored.

Personally, I've never been into drugs any more than I've been into pretending negatives don't exist. It's more a matter of choosing to balance out the one with the other. No side effects to worrry about.

You have a good evening, DK.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 5:50 pm

I believe: If a giant boulder is balanced on the edge of a cliff over a village, and all 1,000 people standing below all believe the boulder will not fall…one little drop of rain will change their opinion of mans power
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptyFri Dec 27, 2013 6:03 pm

Well, the Earth Mother is a  more powerful force than human intention.  Different matter (pun intended) entirely.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 8:28 am

Many believe their minds are in contact with the universe...yet nobody, or group of nobodies have ever made a mind force to move, change, or talk to a grain of sand. (pun intended.)
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 9:18 am

When one mentions the word, Universe, whether it is in universal thought or the Universe itself, it boggles my mind.  Just to imagine that the universe continues to expand ever since the “Big Bang” theory is beyond my comprehension, considering that our earth is just a tiny speck within our universe.  If there are other Universes, as is speculated, one could imagine that there are also other “earth-type” planets where life exists.  Whether that life exists in the form we recognize as life is another wonder.  One does not have to be a spiritualist to wonder about our existence and what happens when we cease to exist.  Since it is stated that our bodies are made up of energy, and that energy never dies, one can only wonder what happens to that energy when it departs the body.  Speculation will continue on this subject.  To believe that one is not in touch with others via the universal mind is in my view, foolish.  It is just another of the unknowns that fuel speculation and doubt. 
According to Wikepedia, “Universal Mind is the universal higher consciousness or source of being in some forms of esoteric or New Thought and spiritual philosophy. It may be considered synonymous with the subjective mind or it may be referred to in the context of creative visualization, usually with religious or spiritual themes.”
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 9:44 am

Abe F. March wrote:
When one mentions the word, Universe, whether it is in universal thought or the Universe itself, it boggles my mind.  Just to imagine that the universe continues to expand ever since the “Big Bang” theory is beyond my comprehension, considering that our earth is just a tiny speck within our universe.  If there are other Universes, as is speculated, one could imagine that there are also other “earth-type” planets where life exists.  Whether that life exists in the form we recognize as life is another wonder.  One does not have to be a spiritualist to wonder about our existence and what happens when we cease to exist.  Since it is stated that our bodies are made up of energy, and that energy never dies, one can only wonder what happens to that energy when it departs the body.  Speculation will continue on this subject.  To believe that one is not in touch with others via the universal mind is in my view, foolish.  It is just another of the unknowns that fuel speculation and doubt. 
According to Wikepedia, “Universal Mind is the universal higher consciousness or source of being in some forms of esoteric or New Thought and spiritual philosophy. It may be considered synonymous with the subjective mind or it may be referred to in the context of creative visualization, usually with religious or spiritual themes.”
Wikepedia is made up from what others have said...Wikepedia proves nothing. I have studied the Bible for over fifty years. The Bible is not a book I would believe if I could not prove what it says.
It says when we die, we go back to dust. True everything is made of atoms, and atoms go from form to form. Our thoughts do not remain. We as living creatures are no more at death. The Bible says Jesus will bring those back to life who believe in him.
No, I am not trying to convert non-believers into believers.
I know many find comfort it believing they some how go on after death.
People don't believe in the Bible because churches do not teach the Bible. When people find out their religion(s) lie to them, they take that as the Bible is wrong.
It's not the Bible, it's religious teachers.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 10:16 am

I believe my prayers are a type of positive thought joining with other positive thoughts by similar minded people.  I may be completely wrong, but I find prayer and meditation comforting at times and therefore use them as tools for serenity.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 10:35 am

I'm of the same mind-set, DK.  I don't believe the Bible can be considered an authoritative source of ancient history of or what Jesus or his apostles said or did.  One can study philosophy or one can study religions.  In the study of religion, we see many similarities.  Saying one is right and the other wrong is not based on fact, but rather dogmatic faith.  From what we know of the ancient world, Jesus and his apostles wrote nothing.  What is said about him and/or his apostles is based on hearsay passed on from one to another and finally written down by scribes who were the only people who could write. One can only imagine how what one hears and then retold can be distorted.  We could argue until we're blue in the face and still not know the truth.  I think our beliefs come from within.  Our gut feeling is most likely what is true.  I believe that it stems from the universal mind and/or the source that one may call, God.  Since there were many God's recorded in the Bible as well as in much of Greek philosophy, the God subject is just another speculation.  Having said that, I can't believe that we are here by accident.  There had to be a grand design and only a God could do that, IMV.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 10:53 am

dkchristi wrote:
I believe my prayers are a type of positive thought joining with other positive thoughts by similar minded people.  I may be completely wrong, but I find prayer and meditation comforting at times and therefore use them as tools for serenity.

dk, I agree with you. Prayer is very powerful...if you pray for the right thing.
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 10:55 am

Abe F. March wrote:
I'm of the same mind-set, DK.  I don't believe the Bible can be considered an authoritative source of ancient history of or what Jesus or his apostles said or did.  One can study philosophy or one can study religions.  In the study of religion, we see many similarities.  Saying one is right and the other wrong is not based on fact, but rather dogmatic faith.  From what we know of the ancient world, Jesus and his apostles wrote nothing.  What is said about him and/or his apostles is based on hearsay passed on from one to another and finally written down by scribes who were the only people who could write. One can only imagine how what one hears and then retold can be distorted.  We could argue until we're blue in the face and still not know the truth.  I think our beliefs come from within.  Our gut feeling is most likely what is true.  I believe that it stems from the universal mind and/or the source that one may call, God.  Since there were many God's recorded in the Bible as well as in much of Greek philosophy, the God subject is just another speculation.  Having said that, I can't believe that we are here by accident.  There had to be a grand design and only a God could do that, IMV.
Abe, I have been reading your post for a few years. When it comes to Religion, the Bible, or God, I am left with the feeling you have been turned off by what religion teaches, or what others say is in the Bible. I do believe you believe in a God.
Here is where I stand;
Using just the Bible, I can prove ALL religions are false. Just by using the Bible, I can prove all religions are not telling the truth of what is in the Bible. And yes, like you, one has but to look around...all this could not just have come about from nothing...something had to create it.
Lets call that something , God. If this God has the power to create all this, is there a chance he might have the power to have a book written that can be proven to be true?
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 12:07 pm

Interesting turn this thread has taken.  Personally, lately, I have come more and more to equate the Universe with the power we have generally called God.
I recently saw a video recreating the inside of a single human cell.  It looked a bit like a solar system.  I kept thinking of Dr. Seuss' Horton Hears a Who, where an elephant named Horton discovered an entire world living inside a dust speck on a clover petal.

Worlds within worlds within worlds, from the inside of a cell, eventually out into the entire Universe, so that the Universe becomes a single organism, and we are but the tiniest part of it, like Horton's Whoville.

Quantum physics has proved that what seems to us to be solid matter is really a bundle of energy.  Particles of matter are actually waves of energy that appear to take on form.  It seems that the forms are "created" through an "observer effect."  They only exist through being observed, and the observer has a strong say in how the particles take shape.  At a quantum level, we create our "reality," and the reality we create is actually an illusion.

We are all connected and interrelated, part of one great whole, and we all have a say in how the illusion we call reality takes shape.

So, yes, prayer and meditaion are both powerful means for putting our thoughts and wishes out into the Universe, and the prayers are heard and can have a powerful effect.

Just the wy I see it, though.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 12:15 pm

http://www.commonsensescience.org/quantum_reality.html

Quote :

Worldviews of Prominent Physicists and Philosophers

There is no deep reality.
Reality is created by observation.
Reality is an undivided wholeness.
Reality consists of a steadily increasing number of parallel universes.
The world obeys a non-human kind of reasoning.
The world is made of ordinary objects.
Consciousness creates reality.
The world is twofold, consisting of potentials and actualities
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The Great American Class War   The Great American Class War EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 12:37 pm

Seuss, and Horton are fiction, written by a writer, as fiction. Quantum physics is fiction written by men who have no idea how all this came about.

But lets say Quantum physics is true. Every thing is part of a whole thing. Where did this whole thing come from?  If it is from the mind of something having a dream, where did the something come from?
If it is just out there as a dream, and came from no place...how did it come to be?

If all the brains alive, and who have ever lived could be made into one giant brain, yes they could split an atom, but they could not create one from nothing.
One thing I will agree on, "There are people who are dreaming up fiction to answer questions about reality."
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