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 Courtesy

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slb
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slb


Number of posts : 926
Registration date : 2010-11-04
Age : 57
Location : Oskaloosa, Iowa

Courtesy Empty
PostSubject: Courtesy   Courtesy EmptyFri Sep 06, 2013 5:37 pm

I discuss the concept of courtesy at http://stephenbrayton.wordpress.com/2013/09/06/courtesy/
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dkchristi
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dkchristi


Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: Re: Courtesy   Courtesy EmptyFri Sep 06, 2013 6:47 pm

I regard door opening today as more a custom than a courtesy.  I dated a man from Atlanta, Georgia several years ago who was the nicest gentleman I've known.  It was his custom to treat women with respect which included holding every door, every chair, and every wrap.  He never used profanity, did not smoke, never had more than a serving of an alcoholic beverage, was always on time and when it was Christmas, he bought my mother and me a present.  I loved being special; I just was not in love with this lovely person. 

It does seem sometimes that the kind and gentle men have to wait a little longer for the lady who falls for them, but it does not mean they should give it up.  Unfortunately, there is some sort of female chemical reaction to the men a little rough around the edges, as though they give off a different fermone. Attraction to "bad boys" must be the mother instinct to rescue and improve.  I can attest that they don't improve and the fermones wear off quickly and then we're stuck with a brute.

It is not customary in all countries for gentlemen to show obvious respect to ladies.  In fact, when I lived in Korea, it was the opposite.  Women were last served, last to enter a room, subjected to smoky cigarettes and inebriated men with regularity and generally treated as less intelligent except for some of the younger, enlightened couples (poisoned by Western thought).
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slb
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slb


Number of posts : 926
Registration date : 2010-11-04
Age : 57
Location : Oskaloosa, Iowa

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PostSubject: Re: Courtesy   Courtesy EmptyFri Sep 06, 2013 10:47 pm

Fine, then you can open you own darn doors when I'm around. lol.
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Shelagh
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Shelagh


Number of posts : 12662
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Courtesy   Courtesy EmptySat Sep 07, 2013 1:29 am

slb wrote:
Fine, then you can open you own darn doors when I'm around. lol.
Very Happy 

I think courtesy is changing not obsolete. Men like to be smiled at. Opening doors forces a women to smile and say thank you. If she doesn't, she is being impolite.

Men open the door for their moms out of respect, but it also reverses roles. Instead of having to thank their moms for every kindness, mom is being forced to thank their sons. Daughters don't do this, but they use other ways to provoke a reaction -- usually involving flowers.

Our behaviour patterns change over the decades, but the reason we do things stays the same.
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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March


Number of posts : 10768
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 85
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Courtesy   Courtesy EmptySat Sep 07, 2013 5:32 am

In the comedy series, "Keeping up Appearances", Hyacinth expects/demands that her husband, Richard, open the door for her.  Opening a door for a woman who expects or demands it is not an act of courtesy.  

For many years I opened doors for women, pulled out chairs, etc. until Women's Lib caused me to change my actions. 

I still do it as a courtesy, not out of habit, but when I feel it is warranted.  When is it warranted?  When the lady/wife is having difficulty of some sort.  Perhaps carrying a package or not feeling well.  With strangers, I stilll hold a door open for men or women. 
It is not just with doors, but even walking or standing on the sidewalk.  Some people won't give way and expect you to walk around them.  Common acts of courtesy should not be gender related.
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Al Stevens
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Al Stevens


Number of posts : 1727
Registration date : 2010-05-11
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: Re: Courtesy   Courtesy EmptySat Sep 07, 2013 5:35 am

I'm old school. I open doors, stand when a lady comes in, walk on the traffic side, and all that out-of-date behavior. But it isn't to make the ladies smile. It's second nature. It's how I was raised. To do otherwise would be out of character. Don't like it? Too bad. I'm too old to change.

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dkchristi
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dkchristi


Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: Re: Courtesy   Courtesy EmptySat Sep 07, 2013 7:06 am

Al, that was the point I was trying to make.  Our behaviors are as much dictated by custom as by courtesy.  They may have started as a courtesy, but they become part of a culture - or they don't - and they do change over time.

It's unfortunate that "women's lib" dictated to so many men a reason to change their customary behavior regarding door, chairs and packages.  The women that chose to open their own doors, etc. were in the minority.  The majority of women just wanted the opportunity to seek occupations and salaries of their choice, unfettered by the custom of preference for men when it came to jobs and pay. If they chose to stay at home with children and the social activity to support a man's career, then they had that choice.  However, if they also chose to not do housework 24 hours a day and find some meaning in their own behalf instead of the "Mrs.," well, that was the liberation.  They started to see themselves as partners in marriage decisions and not just arm candy.

Women really sought to be treated with more respect, not less.  It was, however, a confusing time for men so they interpreted their own angst at the changes with doors and chairs and packages.
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Abe F. March
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Abe F. March


Number of posts : 10768
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 85
Location : Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Courtesy   Courtesy EmptySat Sep 07, 2013 7:48 am

Good points, DK.  I think Al is right in his sticking to customs.  Although I indicated that mine changed, changing those (good) habits are as hard to break as changing (bad) habits. 
My son brought a girl colleage home for a visit.  He told us in advance that she had been in a car accident, suffered brain damage and her walking was impaired.  She used a cane.  He said that she didn't want to be helped.  She wanted to do things by herself (as part of her therapy).
It was difficult not to help or offer assistance.  Being sensitive to the wishes of others may cause us to break with custom for the sake of others.  Many assume that handicapped people need assistance and we want to help.  Do they wish assistance can be determined by asking them.

My wife had a mini-stroke.  Part of her therapy is walking.  She is unsteady when she walks and I don't want her walking alone.  She wants to walk alone at times.  My only advice is to walk where there are other people and not to walk alone in the vineyards.  Dementia patients suffer from loss of blood to the brain.  Non-strenuous exercise, like walking, is good therapy.

We are also prone to condemn the customs of other cultures since it is not like ours.  Customs are as hard to break for them as they are for us.  We should not interfere. JMO
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Shelagh
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Shelagh


Number of posts : 12662
Registration date : 2008-01-11
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Courtesy   Courtesy EmptySat Sep 07, 2013 4:11 pm

Al Stevens wrote:
I'm old school. I open doors, stand when a lady comes in, walk on the traffic side, and all that out-of-date behavior. But it isn't to make the ladies smile. It's second nature. It's how I was raised. To do otherwise would be out of character. Don't like it? Too bad. I'm too old to change.

Here's a smile, anyway, you old curmudgeon. Very Happy
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Al Stevens
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Al Stevens


Number of posts : 1727
Registration date : 2010-05-11
Location : Florida

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PostSubject: Re: Courtesy   Courtesy EmptySat Sep 07, 2013 4:37 pm

A smile from Shelagh is like a sunbeam on a rainy day.
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