Published Authors

A place for budding and experienced authors to share ideas about publishing and marketing books
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister  Log in  Featured MembersFeatured Members  ArticlesArticles  

Share | 
 

 Syria

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
AuthorMessage
alj
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 75
Location : San Antonio

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:01 am

They are right here, DK. The changes are not going to come through a charismatic leader. The can only come from us - the people. We have to keep on expressing our views. We have to believe in our power to influence change. We have to believe that a positive future exists and that we can help to make it a reality. The Universe has a hand in this scenario and work to bring about the outcome that will promote the needed change in people's hearts, because that is the only place real change can occur. Meantime, we have to accept the current reality and strive to do and support what seems to be the course toward the outcome that will do the least harm, right here now. We have to let go of the past and our prejudices that we bring from those past experiences so that we can observe the present with clear eyes and clear thinking. 

Hope this makes sense as I am typing on my iPhone and cannot read what I am saying.
Back to top Go down
http://www.annjoiner.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:45 am

It's too slow.  Too many people die in the meantime.  Too many mistakes are made.  Too many lies are told.  Charismatic leaders bring the "us" together to make a more powerful statement.  They have to be leaders in the the rest of the world that is still living in the past centuries.  Even the past generations of those countries paid attention to charismatic leaders - they just need to lead toward tolerance and a new way to resolve differences that values the life of every citizen of every nation.

Unfortunately, even the leaders of hope seem to "turn" once in office to the greed and power that sinks so many leaders who do not provide for all their people.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
Al Stevens
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 1727
Registration date : 2010-05-11
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:13 pm

Abe F. March wrote:
We used agent orange in Vietnam.  Many Vietnamese are still dying and suffering from that chemical.
Who bombed us for using chemical weapons?
A biblical scripture says, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone". 
We are in no position to cast stones.
Many American Vietnam veterans are suffering the effects of exposure to agent orange too. But it wasn't a weapon as such. We used it as a defoliant so the enemy couldn't hide in the jungle and so civilians couldn't grow crops. We were using it without understanding its effects on people, however. Not our finest hour, but not chemical weaponry either, splitting hairs.

My grandfather suffered all his life from the effects of mustard gas in WWI. That was chemical warfare. The chemical was released into the air on battlefields specifically to disable soldiers.

Back to top Go down
http://alstevens.blogspot.com
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 10627
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 79
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:23 pm

A chemical is a chemical.  Splitting hairs will not undo the damage.  There are many kinds of bullets and they all kill. 
If killing is the objective, best to get it over with quickly.  Suffering is a death sentence far worse.  Anyone think the Vietnamese have forgotten?
Back to top Go down
Al Stevens
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 1727
Registration date : 2010-05-11
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:59 am

Abe F. March wrote:
A chemical is a chemical.
And a weapon is a weapon... Agent Orange was not designed to kill or maim the enemy. It had that long-term effect, but it was not deployed with that intention.
Back to top Go down
http://alstevens.blogspot.com
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 10627
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 79
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:14 am

Our supposed precision bombing of military targets in Iraq killed many civilians.  That was not the intention either or was that calculated as collateral damage?

Do you think that the chemists who created agent orange didn't know how it may affect humans?  Destroying foliage includes food.  The end result is the deciding factor, intended or not.
Back to top Go down
Al Stevens
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 1727
Registration date : 2010-05-11
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:32 am

Abe F. March wrote:

Do you think that the chemists who created agent orange didn't know how it may affect humans?
I think they did not. It was the same company that made DDT. They didn't know its side effects until it was too late. If they had known, we wouldn't have used it, and certainly not in a way that exposed our own troops.
Abe F. March wrote:
Destroying foliage includes food.  The end result is the deciding factor, intended or not.
The deciding factor differs depending on who makes the decision.

Unintentional side effects are not uncommon. That's no reason to condemn entire institutions. Unless they fail to learn from the experience. Every thing about that war was wrong. That's the bigger issue. Did we learn anything from that? Given what's come since, I doubt it.

Back to top Go down
http://alstevens.blogspot.com
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 10627
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 79
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:48 am

Al, your points are well taken.  It has been said that: "What we learn from history is that we don't learn from history."
I stated it before and I'll state it again.  I'm against war. 
Striking out with military means appears to be America's solution, and as we know, with that action there will be a reaction.
With Syria, I don't think we have the evidence of who used the chemical weapons.  Secondly, I don't think we have thoroughly sought alternatives.  If we seek to punish the perpetrator of the crime, first know who the perpetrator is and then take action that will punish the perpetrator and not innocents. From what I hear, most every country is against military action in Syria.  I don't know of any that is ready to go along with the US.  The US appears to be standing alone and viewed as a militant country.  What is the peaceful solution to the problem(s) in Syria?  Have we exhausted every possibility?  We have been warned that if we take military action there will be retaliation and when retaliation comes, we will yell, "foul". 

I have supported Obama, however if he takes unilateral military action, I will no longer support him. I don't think I am alone in this view.
Let the UN decide.  It is not an American problem.  It is a world problem.  The "united" nations should be able to find a way to punish without more killing.
Back to top Go down
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:16 am

Ditto.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
alj
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 75
Location : San Antonio

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:56 pm

Excavations from the oldest known European cities indicate that they were agricultural societies that grew out older hunter-gatherer tribes that were turning more toward an agricultural base as their primary food supply.  While at one time it was believed that these were matriarchal societies, further investigation has led to the belief that the society was most often a gylany, that there were both male and female deities of equal stature, and men and women were equals.  The one predominant feature of these cultures - up to a point - was the complete lack of any evidence of weapons.  There were agricultural implements in abundance, but there was nothing that could be used as a weapon for war, or as a defense against invaders.

That changed very suddenly.  What is indicated next is a long period of burnt villages, signs of pillaging, and then, an overlay of masculine, militant leadership, indicated by remains of swords and spears and other warlike implements; the feminine aspects -the figurines, the bas reliefs - were literally destroyed.  The warrior became the hero, and war and pillage, the norm.

The argument over whether those early societies were primarily feminine or a combination of both is irrelevant.  They had no weapons.  They had no means of defense when the hunter/herder tribes first pillaged, then took over control  From that time on, a patriarchal warrior caste took over, and that ideology has been promoted ever since.

Even today, we live in a world where aggression is considered the major means of power and control.  This worldview is changing, but as DK has said, it is changing slowly.  We are not there yet.

In the meantime, the pillagers are still willing to use any means they can find to maintain power.

I remember reading  stories and news reports, back in the later 19th century, of situations on city streets and parks, where people would stand around and watch as victims were brutalized, beaten, mugged, even raped, and the onlookers did nothing but watch. If questioned, they would respond, "It was not my business."

Whose responsibility is it when genocide is taking place?  When children are being murdered, when a political leader has decided he (or she) is answerable to no one and flagrantly violates laws of human decendy?

I do not know the answer where Syria is concerned.  I do not know enough of the details to make a choice. I can only hope that the elected leaders - the ones I voted for in many cases - will have the courage to do what is best for the situation.  A peaceful solution would be the ideal answer, but do we live in an ideal world?  Do we continue to stand around and watch and say, "It is not my business?"

I have stated here more than once that war is never the answer, but what precisely, is war?  When does intervention become necessary?  What form does that intervention take?

And how much time do we have to make a decision before the solution is taken out of our hands?
Back to top Go down
http://www.annjoiner.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:44 pm

The rest of the world is looking at this situation.  Many countries as sophisticated as ours are watching.  They have troops.  They have airplanes.  They have weapons.  They have diplomatic clout.

Russia could stop it immediately.  It is the business of all nations to promote diplomacy over war.  Syria has powerful allies that could stop the carnage.  They have more in depth knowledge of the culture mix than we do.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
alj
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 75
Location : San Antonio

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:34 pm

It seems to me that President Obama is in an incredibly difficult position.  It seems to me that he has been continually focusing on finding a peaceful solution.  What a dilemma he must be experiencing now!  So far, attempts to find peaceful solutions are failing.  The aggressors grow more bold, more taunting.  It is easy for us to say that, even if we voted for him and supported him before, if he uses force in this instance, we will withdraw our support.  That, of course is an individual decision, but do we drop our friends when they are going through a difficult time?  None of us have had to or are able to walk in his shoes.

We say we haven't learned from history, but history tells us there was a point at which Hitler could have been stopped.

I wrote in a previous post about what happened to the peaceful agrarian societies were overrun by militant warlords.

I recall a Biblical passage, which I seem to remember is from Revelations, "They cry: Peace! Peace! But there is no peace."

One of the things I cannot figure out is whether certain people here think Obama is a criminal because he has avoided making a decision about using force until now, or whether he is a criminal now because he is considering a decision to use force at this time.

Our late friend, Carol Troestler, wrote a book about another president's choice to stand firm.  She wrote from the perspective of the women who were left at home while their husbands prepared for action.

I personally remember that day, sitting in my dorm room, at 18, listening over the radio to the announcement being made by President Kennedy, saying that if missles were not removed from Cuba that our air forces would strike. I wrote about that day here, some years ago.  Carol asked for, and got my permission, to include those words in her book.  Carol's husband Tom was a pilot of one of those aircraft.  Fortunately, the then leader of the former USSR did back down at the last minute.

The actions being discussed by President Obama may very well have the same effect on Assad.  If he believes that the strike will happen, he may well back down.  Right now, I believe that what I need to do is wait and see what might happen next, watch the process, and put all of the will that I can muster into envisioning the best possible outcome.

I think that for now, we need to let it be.
Back to top Go down
http://www.annjoiner.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:54 pm

Unfortunately no crystal ball can determine the heart of the human species.  A leader makes the best decision from the information at hand.  My concern is that we are not the only nation who can make this decision and there are others more familiar with that part of the world who should step in.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
Betty Fasig
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 4331
Registration date : 2008-06-12
Age : 75
Location : Duette, Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:05 pm

Dear DK,
I wonder where they are.  I hope that not everyone is bought and paid for.  It seems that way to me.  I consider that there are big corporations in the US who have bought and paid for the outcome they want, let the children and the country of Syria be damned.  Blame it on the politics, but it really is big banks that control this world. 
Love,
Betty
Back to top Go down
http://woofferwood.webs.com/
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:14 pm

Yes, Betty, I have stated earlier that the real power is in the hands of the international corporations, the war industry and the super wealthy and powerful, not the politicians.  However, some of the wealthy and powerful also run nations in the Middle East.  The remaining kingdoms have major investments around the world.  Nothing is ever as it seems.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
alj
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 75
Location : San Antonio

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:25 pm

I wrote a reply to Betty at the same time as DK, but instead of letting me know if I wanted to modify it, the system somehow just blipped it away.

Yes, it is too true.  The few wealthiest individuals around the world control the banks and corporations.

the good thing is, though that they are no longer able to keep their doings as secret as the once did.  It is all coming out into the open and more and more people are waking up to what is happening.

As my fave fictional Character, Ruby Thewes said, "This won't stand long."

Let's just hope it won't take another Civil War to stop it.
Back to top Go down
http://www.annjoiner.com
Betty Fasig
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 4331
Registration date : 2008-06-12
Age : 75
Location : Duette, Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:12 pm

I wish that NEWs programs had some accountability, something one could say, "that is true" but that will not happen.  Not until everyone who ever turned on a television or radio news station demanded it. 
What ever happened to the underground news.  I know it had a slant, too, but it was not so bought and paid for by big business and the big war machines.

Love,
Betty
Back to top Go down
http://woofferwood.webs.com/
alj
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 75
Location : San Antonio

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:10 pm

It's still around, Betty, just work the internet.
Back to top Go down
http://www.annjoiner.com
Al Stevens
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 1727
Registration date : 2010-05-11
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:31 pm

alj wrote:
When does intervention become necessary? What form does that intervention take?

And what criteria are applied to select which atrocities require intervention and which do not?
Back to top Go down
http://alstevens.blogspot.com
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 10627
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 79
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:54 am

The results of the Vietnam War.  See the following:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/vietnam/afterthewarrev1.shtml
Back to top Go down
alj
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 75
Location : San Antonio

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:08 am

Quote :
Report: Syria accepts chemical weapons proposal

(CNN) -- Syria has accepted a Russian proposal aimed at averting a U.S. military strike, Russia's Interfax news agency reported Tuesday.
After "a very fruitful round of talks" with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Monday, "we agreed to the Russian initiative," Syrian Foreign Minister Foreign Minister Walid Moallem was quoted as saying.
China also said it welcomes and supports the proposal, the Foreign Affairs Ministry spokesman said Tuesday.
Like Russia, China is a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council and has used its veto power to block some resolutions against Syria.el: Russia stepped up to plate
The proposal -- to put the country's chemical weapons sites under international control -- stemmed from off-the-cuff remarks made by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry.
Asked Monday whether there was anything Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's government could do to avoid an attack, Kerry said al-Assad "could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week.
"He isn't about to do it, and it can't be done, obviously," Kerry said.
Russia, Syria's leading ally, quickly urged al-Assad to do just that.
"It's certainly a positive development when the Russians and Syrians both make gestures towards dealing with these chemical weapons," President Barack Obama told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Monday.
But Obama said the threat of American force would remain, "And we don't want just a stalling or delaying tactic to put off the pressure that we have on there right now."
Sen. John McCain, a leading Republican voice in calls for military action against Syria, said Tuesday there could be "a very good initial test" of such a solution.
"That would be for the immediate dispatch of international monitors to these chemical weapons sites" in Syria, he told CNN's "New Day."
"I'm very, very skeptical," he said. "But the fact is, you can't pass up this opportunity -- if it is one."
McCain said he is trying to work with Obama and Kerry and others.
But, he added, "There's a degree of incoherence that I have never seen the likes of so far."
He noted that Kerry has said any attack on Syria would be "unbelievably small."
"What does that mean?" McCain asked. "We still haven't determined what the goal of these military strikes are."
It seems to me we are witnessing a well-executed international political ploy carried out between Obama and Kerry on the one hand and Putin and Lavrov on the other.

Putin could hardly have come out in open support of Obama's stand  Obama, like Kennedy in '62, was in an impossible position.  Khrushchev then, and Assad now had to believe that a strike was imminent or he would never have conceded.

Even McCain is playing his role - carefully, so that he won't offend his constituents.

Wasn't it Teddy Roosevelt who said something about speaking softly but carrying a big stick?
Back to top Go down
http://www.annjoiner.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:30 am

Subject: Re: Syria   Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:44 pm


The rest of the world is looking at this situation.  Many countries as sophisticated as ours are watching.  They have troops.  They have airplanes.  They have weapons.  They have diplomatic clout.

Russia could stop it immediately.  It is the business of all nations to promote diplomacy over war.  Syria has powerful allies that could stop the carnage.  They have more in depth knowledge of the culture mix than we do.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:32 am

Sorry, the above post was supposed to be quoting my own post on Sunday.  We will never know all the twists and turns that brought the situation to this seeming solution.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 10627
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 79
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:55 am

I hope that the Russian initiative works.  It should not matter who initiated action that results in a peaceful solution.
Back to top Go down
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
avatar

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

PostSubject: Re: Syria   Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:04 am

Of course the civil war continues...
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Syria   

Back to top Go down
 
Syria
Back to top 
Page 3 of 4Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Published Authors :: Society :: All Political Discussions-
Jump to: