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 the last person to post here wins

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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:47 am

repost from elsewhere

Quote :
No seriously WTF is this garbage you have posted? If you can not be constructive just avoid me.

"...nah, stop sulking now, I'm actually friendly and on your side too..." replied the goblin then gently adding "...ah, but you don't own this pen either, so don't try it on with me again, but instead I'll listen if ever you'd care to argue your side of things, because it's really you that doesn't understand forum readership while actually writing upon this forumland here, you that can't see that you are surrounded by your readers now, and you that hasn't noticed that less and less people are reading at length anyway, and besides, spending months on an ebook that sells for 99cts on amazon is less profitable that flipping hamburgers, all meaning that if you can't accept these facts as facts and won't somehow work these facts to your advantage here, then that distance that you are suggesting is like everything leaving you standing still today...", and with that the goblin, far from being unconstructive actually offered xxxxx an invitation to write with him whenever he wished to, saying "...simply, to post is to publish, moreover while you haven't amassed the readership you won't get far, so talking constructively then, first get the hitcount, create that forum readership, because googling your username at this point throws up zilch, and how else is any potential reader ever going to find you let alone know if your ebooks are worth downloading where and when you've apparently written nothing on forumland at all, look, at its simplest your posts are you to your readers here, so just remember that the next we meet, for then someone might read your elsewhere more, well, if you first offered more here in your posts now..."


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Dalwin_ND

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:34 pm

Response to an unattributed quote above:

Perhaps even better than sharing anonymously would be governing anonymously. I envision a system without political parties in which all decisions are made via online concensus. One in which online aliases must legally be kept secret so as to avoid backroom dealings and alliances.

Let the ideas speak for themselves. Haven't we all seen enough leaders whose primary objective seems to be to stay in power?
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:56 pm

("...thanks for making my day Dalwin_ND..." replied the goblin, adding "...certainly you have me reading you now...")

repost from elsewhere

Quote :
I am a new writer. I was encouraged by xxxxx to write. I ironically do not even like to read so this is way out of my realm. But I will do the first book and see how that goes. If it does decently I will go on and write another book. I am here looking for any advice, opinions etc... Feel free to contact me with ideas.

"...perfectly understandable..." replied the goblin knowing that fewer and fewer people wanted to read at length now, where the goblin too was no different from anyone else it seemed, or at least no different from the majority of humans he came across either in his dailylife or upon forumland now, adding "...so if you yourself don't want to read, understandably then most other readers won't want to read either, leaving a simple threefold choice of giving up, continuing bookwriting, or livewriting then...", simply the goblin as a livewriter wrote within the medium that everyone was reading here, his posts were short enough not to demand too much from the reader though of enough substance for him to become quite known across forumland anonymously, concluding "...I mean it's up to you then, but if you want to spend months writing something that you'll then sell on amazon for 99cts, clearly by that calculation alone, it won't be the financial side of things that entices you to actually write it, after all, flipping hamburgers would pay a better return for one's efforts, and besides, whereas someone before might have wished to become known by their ebooks, today one can simply become known by one's persona upon forumland, and forumland my dear friend is the growing readership between the two readerships now...", whereupon the goblin smiled and then tapped the ground with his foot turning that same old welcoming red carpet around him green for once for a far as one's eyes could see, his welcome was now complete he felt, for what he did was simply to draw readers to his pen by what he posted, yes it was that simple then, in fact anyone could do it


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Dalwin_ND

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:18 pm

Liking to write without liking to read might work if your ideas are good enough.



Which is more interesting, smoothly polished style wrapped around a dull premise, or crude technique wrapped around a brilliant idea? Those who can manage both are bound to be successful.
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:01 am

("...ah, but how does one judge one's success where one remains anonymous..." mused the goblin thinking upon it, adding "...though for me, perhaps I feel my success to be derived from two things, one, where I have written something to my liking that has surprised me, and two, when someone like yourself starts to converse with me for real thus feeding me fresh thoughts...", simply the goblin fed posts to be fed posts back, saying "...I like your style human, where if you felt that your readers were reading this now, what would like to tell them then...")

repost from elsewhere

Quote :
whoops. Sorry. Either I wasn't clear or you misunderstood me. Have at it. I love that you have the urge to be weird. Brothers in arms and all that. I love that everyone does. The difference between postings on the internet seems to be strange for you to speak qualitatively about though as if one were worse or better by the nature of the abstract ego-ness of a post or something. I dunno. If ego is your trip then I guess have at that too.

"...well probably, it's just that one man's ego trip is another man journey to self, though what of it where you and I and everyone else here too is anonymous..." replied the goblin quite aware that as long as he was actually honest to himself throughout, then that honesty would make himself clear to others here while that which was shown by what was written became his reflection of self to go upon, saying "...yes it's an ego trip if you would like to call it such, but don't you want to know who you are by what you post or do you arrogantly think that you already know so much about yourself that your posts don't merit looking upon to show you what they tell you now..., ...and what do your posts tell you... asked the voice in the back of the goblin's mind, ...they tell me that the journey to self is the same one that runs in parallel to one's journey to death where simply one won't really know oneself in one's toral till one got there, and that when one finally got there that that that knowledge would be unusable too, but if one knows it pointless to begin with yet still continues anyway, doesn't that kind of show you to yourself by it...


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Dalwin_ND

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:57 am

Success at writing, in my eyes, is not based on fame. Therefor, anonymity is not a factor. It is irrelevant.

Are there people who are entertained by your work? Are there people who actually get the message you are trying to convey? Does your work push people into thinking new thoughts and having lively conversations?

These things are the yardsticks of writing success. None of them require that anyone knows your idenitity.
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:57 pm

Quote :
Are there people who are entertained by your work? Are there people who actually get the message you are trying to convey? Does your work pushpeople into thinking new thoughts and having lively conversations?

"...well I guess that one's hitcount is one's readership now..." ventured the goblin aware that one's username too was crucial in helpling readers find one across forumland, explaining "...and there's probably a post on this thread somewhere about the livewriter's tripod or those three things make up a livewriter, they're being a constant flow of content, a traceable username and a memorable persona, where together with an internet history perhaps, each one of those in turn helps and encourages the reader to follow one now...", in fact, the goblin entered into conversation with the reader whenever the other posters whenever they wished to comment, and always invited the reader to turn into the author where they so wished to do exhibit something, adding "...if you google my usename seeing my internet history, it'll become clearer perhaps, where this pace is both hectic and very rewarding, but unlike a blog, I prefer to share these thread conversing as we go along, think forum/venue thread/stage and you/act then, but for anyone who commits themselves to one of these random threads there's a strong sense of audience and an encouraging/nagging feeling of deadline that is rarely found elsewhere, so this then is livewriting where I am one of quite a few livewriters now..."



Last edited by fleamailman on Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dalwin_ND

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:49 pm

Since that seems to be more or less agreeing with the concept that the message itself is more important than who is saying it, I will change tack to a favorite movie quote of mine.

"If you can't do something smart, do something right." (Jayne Cobb, played by Adam Baldwin).
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:09 am

Quote :
Since that seems to be more or less agreeing with the concept that the message itself is more important than who is saying it, I will change tack to a favorite movie quote of mine. "If you can't do something smart, do something right." (Jayne Cobb, played by Adam Baldwin).


"...oh yes, I'm agreeing with you now, and I like that quote too..." replied the goblin very much appreciating Dalwin_NB's quick mind to date, continuing "...yet the idea perhaps is still to become a known unknown by it, though not for fame and forture as such, but more to have those who share your sentiments approach you, where in my case I feed off rapport too, so it's in my interest to encourage you further, while hewing my posts into something more than that post and discard one sees in most posts across forumland..", simply, the goblin's posts, like anyone's posts too he imagined, became repetitive after awhile, and yet, where there was many posters sharing an edit thread, things tended to more vibrant with a higher hitcount and with the livewriters coming into their own, smiling "...to create a credible albeit incredible persona in posts, thus perhaps becoming a known unknown by it, is a madness indeed, yet it does kind of show one one's alter ego by it..."


xxxx
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Dalwin_ND

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:53 am

Well now. I can hardly disagree with any of that, since I have chosen not to be anonymous. The choice has very little to do with seeking fame, at least not for myself. On a personal level, anonymity is more confortable.

The choice to openly use my own name is mostly for the sake of my parents. I am not a young man, and time being the semi-linear, mono-directional thing that it is, means that my parents are even less young. I like the idea of them being able to say to their friends, "Hey, look what my son did." It is a small gift in return for all they have given me.

The decision was not an obvious one, however. I had a pen name chosen, one that I really like. Oddly enough, it is a name that throws a bone to the considerable body of forum readers I used to have under another name. I may still use it if I decide to publish something in another genre.
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:52 am

Quote :
The choice to openly use my own name is mostly for the sake of my parents. I am not a young man, and time being the semi-linear, mono-directional thing that it is, means that my parents are even less young. I like the idea of them being able to say to their friends, "Hey, look what my son did." It is a small gift in return for all they
have given me.


"...nah, my parents probably would have got the shock of their deaths when they then found out what their son had been written duing their lifetimes, where the freedom of my anonymity is only half of the story here, where at least it proves that I have no external motivation for doing this, and besides, how else can I remain a youngish mercurial goblin too, other than by rejecting mudusa's glare now..." ventured the goblin knowing how subtlety she set her authors in all that published stone thus dating them by it, adding "...and yet, having said that then, nothing would make me happier than to have readers interested in you, and for your posts here to pull those readers to your books now, for we do share a common foe between us, namely all those readers who do not read as much as they did, so suffice to say then that a forum is not some writer's workshop for would be writers, no it becomes both my stage and your showroom-window between us, so come let us not disappoint our readers now..."


xxxx 1076 10843


Last edited by fleamailman on Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:54 am

repost from elsewhere, chatting with a nanowrimo winner

Quote :
Quote :
think of it this way, if you actually like what you have written then it's good regardless, whereas if you write that which you yourself don't like then no matter how good others might actually think it is, and however correctly written too, it is actually bad simply because it's fake and not you
No truer words have been said. I often feel this of my own writing. There are of course ways to make myself feel better. Such is so getting the opinion of my husband who even though claims he's unbiased isn't. My sister is bias as well. So they stroke my ego quite well. At which time I get to work on the rewriting until I am actually happy with it.

"...where conversely I never disclose my identity nor works to my family or friends..." replied the goblin, liking xxxx's post but whose point all along to his livewriting had been to take the external self entirely out of his writing context here, where his persona instead then rested solely upon its merits alone as a reflection of his alter ego pure and simple, adding "...actually what is posted to the slot is only the end result here, where my being anonymous focuses me more upon the process itself rather than those other considerations such as fame and fortune...", but perhaps the goblin had also seen that the time and effort to produce a ebook that could then be downloaded from amazon at 99cts, was never going to make it more lucrative than flipping hamburgers, so instead the goblin turned the readers into his touchstone, simply the reader paid the goblin in replies now, where those replies then fed him his posts much like xxxxx's post had done here

1077 10856
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Dalwin_ND

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:14 pm

Quote :
Quote :
think of it this way, if you actually like what you have written then it's good regardless, whereas if you write that which you yourself don't like then no matter how good others might actually think it is, and however correctly written too, it is actually bad simply because it's fake and not you
No truer words have been said. I often feel this of my own writing. There are of course ways to make myself feel better. Such is so getting the opinion of my husband who even though claims he's unbiased isn't. My sister is bias as well. So they stroke my ego quite well. At which time I get to work on the rewriting until I am actually happy with it.
[/quote]

The things quoted are mostly true while at the same time being misleading enough to be entirely false. To say that as long as you like what you have written, that makes it automatically good is in essence saying that you might as well just be writing a diary and leave the rest of us out of it. This is writing not journal keeping. Either you effectively convey your message to at least a few readers outside yourself or your effort has been wasted.

Likewise, to say that if you yourself don't like it then it cannot actually be good is just as wrong. You are not the best judge of your own work. You cannot possibly be objective enough. The difference between an actual author and some wanna be who never progresses to the point where he considers his stuff good enough is simply the willingness to take a chance, to put it out there and risk criticism or humiliation. You are not a failure simply because others did not like this one. You are only a failure if you quit trying and do not risk putting the next one out there.

The idea that it only matters what you yourself think of your own work is so misguided, is so far off the mark that it is like the philosophy of solopsism. "I know that I exist and, as far as I can tell, the rest of the universe is simply a figment of my imagination." What a crock.
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:00 pm

"...I like the reply and yet gnostics always fall back to the self here, the self being the only judge now, otherwise one takes onboard that which isn't true just because others accept it as fact, simply it has to pass my reason first to be acceptable to me..." replied the goblin, understanding that the medium of forumland and books probably differed slightly, continuing "...where my writing in posts is ever both subjective and selfish, moreover if one doesn't judge for oneself, that is, if one lets others be one's benchmark instead of one, then when the fashion changes one drops out of fashion since the benchmark has been altered by those transient externals again...", so perhaps the goblin here was going back to the line one's readers are a pack of wolves who one pays much attention to lest one becames their prey, meaning compromising enough to keep them reading but not letting them become one's priority here, yet in the end the goblin's being anonymous here just meant that his journey to self was his alone and thus totally subjective by it where the readers just came along for the ride till they spoke out to the listening goblin



Last edited by fleamailman on Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:26 am; edited 4 times in total
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:50 am

Good response, Dalwin. It seems that the majority of posts on this thread are by the originator. Perhaps his public notebook.
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:25 am

Quote :
Good response, Dalwin. It seems that the majority of posts on this thread are by the originator. Perhaps his public notebook.

"...yes, I feed to be fed where anyone is free to feed me back too, so a stage between us it becomes, though this was never my thread then, and where too, no one is ever forced to post here either, just if they do I am fed by it..." replied the goblin thinking that the posts themselves would reflect their posters, adding "...so your goal as writers might be the extension of your readership perhaps, whereas my goal as a livewriter is creating a replyship instead where I'll make the running till someone else takes over from me up till this thread dies of its own accord...", in fact, publishedauthor's forum had been the first writer's forum ever to accept a goblin amongst its ranks, so the grateful goblin had remained since trying to blend in with the other writers here lighting their way perhaps while remaining as inconspicuous as possible



Last edited by fleamailman on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dalwin_ND

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:48 am

Let's get back to the topic of anonymity since it seems to be the most frequently recurring theme on the pages I have scanned.

What is its purpose? I have seen it implied a few times, in recent pages, that its function was one of fame avoidance, but after the last few exchanges, I am thinking perhaps it is more about criticism avoidance.

Those who produce or perform for the public must walk a narrow line in a land so odd as to be surreal. One must care what one's readers think. A writer without readers is no writer at all. A wordsmith's product must entertain or inform.

The name that one attaches to that product is nothing more than a convenient label for the reading public. It is a way for them to distinguish between the millions of options they have when choosing what to read. This is every bit as true for a nomme d'plume as it is for the name one was given by one's parents.

Criticism is not to be feared or avoided, in fact, it is the most valuable thing our readers can give us (other than their money). Praise from one's readers might make one feel good for a while, but it does not help us improve our craft. Feedback that is 100% negative is also not very useful. One simply cannot change everything all at once.

The best review is a mixed review. It highlights those things one should work on improving while reinforcing that there are (and there certainly will be) some things that one is doing well.

This may sound ironic or perhaps even self contradictory, but a writer must live for the critical reviews while at the same time ignoring them. Crtics are parasites. They live on the fringes of the creative world pretending that they themselves belong to it. We need their feedback to help improve our craft. Readers need the critics to help narrow the field of choices.

The attacks on one's style point out those things that one should consider changing (though critics, like doctors, are so often wrong that one must seek a second or third opinion). The real trick is to not take personally even the most vicious attacks. While most of us might agree that there is little that could be considered more personal than one's writing, that writing no longer belongs exclusively to us once it is published. A copy belongs to each reader who purchased one. This investment gives them the right to tear the writer's dreams to shreds.

Do not let the critics get you down. Their function, though necessary, is still that of the parasite. Take those morsels from them which are useful to heart while throwing the rest away.
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:25 am

"...lots of points, and most hard to reply in my short 12 lines max style to all of them then..." replied the goblin clearly enjoying the thoughts provoked though, adding "...anonymity does free one in the way you say too, where my writings are as paintings, where with painting it's up to the painter now, where if the viewer doesn't like the painting, too bad, there are plenty of other works out there...", in fact, the goblin the preferred the bedrock of experience to the shortcut of writing rules, saying "...sorry, were you implying that ann frank or anyone who doesn't have readers nor readership in mind when they write are not writers then, well if so there are times when I'm writing clearly thinking of those readers and other times when I'm writing following the plot all by myself, um, so does this make me a writer/nonwriter depending on which me is writing at the time, or can't we just agree that a writer is some who writes without you predefinition, just someone who gets read regardless, being the part of your post that I most agree with...", but the goblin's anonymity also freed him in other ways too


xxxx


Last edited by fleamailman on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dalwin_ND

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:59 am

Actually I would say exactly that. Anne Frank as amazing as her story is, was not a writer. She did not write that diary for others to read. None of us (let us all hope) will every live through anything that compares to what Anne did, but we still have our stories to tell.
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:57 am

Quote :
Actually I would say exactly that. Anne Frank as amazing as her story is, was not a writer. She did not write that diary for others to read. None of us (let us all hope) will every live through anything that compares to what Anne did, but we still have our stories to tell.

"...the letters of lord chesterfield, and those of seneca too, plus the diary of someone else, the poems, or prose then, etc, the list does get extensive for non writer's writings..." mentioned the goblin again, adding "...but me, I'm a livewriter like quite a few others now, where simply our hitcount is our readership and where to post is to publish without fanfare...", and then the goblin thought upon his anonymity as something akin to giving full license to one's alter ego here, saying "...perhaps nothing ages one as much as being the mirror of oneself in one's dailylife on forumland, whereas nothing quite youngers one like being one's persona instead and for the rest of one's days too, so it's peter pan or wendy then, as there is no third choice about it, for medusa will date those who woo her, yes but her price is ever a hard one..."

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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:32 am

("...well, I'm back to editing my posts now, for if I don't then those posts just pile up on me once more..." mentioned the goblin on his day off enjoying the bristo like hi darling I'm home, adding "...and what with more and more readers turning up on forumland now, I'm glad you chatted with me Dalwin_NB, as you sure come across and something more than just another author hidden behind some books elsewhere, no you're a real author here to those who read you from now, and then when they read you elsewhere they'll remember this episode perhaps...")

repost from elsewhere, welcoming someone who wanted to meet writers

"...I mean, there you go then, and a very wise choice indeed..." started the goblin in his welcome here, seeing that xxxxx's seeking the company of writertypes here was better than that of zombies because zombies were more mobile and had special requirements whereas writertypes once they were firmly planted in front of their computer kind of stayed put and needed very little aftercare, and then the goblin felt that he really had to confess something, saying "...well, you know how those zombies keep telling you what they like to eat, well I hate to admit this to you but it does rather look like there aren't any zombies on the forum, pity, but instead I'm sure we can offer you some filtered coffee and homemade cookies if you like, which I hope makes up for what we all evidently lack here..."


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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:47 am

repost from elsewhere, just another landing not quite going as expected

Quote :
everybody on this forum thinks you're a moron with a mental illness, your mission is accomplished, oh unless getting banned was part of your mission, then do carry on

the goblin, aka the moron with a mental illness here, was ever so sorry that he was unable to post as expected perhaps, saying "...nah, meeting your banhammer is not my goal, yet not to worry about my posts then, as there's always a copy elsewhere, so it's all just another case of ban me read me elsewhere, where everyone on this forum is ever part of a greater forumland and an expanding readership, and where my mission is to get the most out of my posts in view of those readers then, I mean don't you think it's funny that a moron with a mental illness has created that which you couldn't match by yourselves for all your barbs..."

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:09 am

repost from elsewhere, the goblin supporting another livewriter whose posts was being mauled by hecklers

the goblin knew that no one is expected to post here feeling that the "last post" thread was more simply a chance to do one's own thing and to be creative by it, so the goblin simply repeated "...well, it's not the tagging of this thread in itself that is going to win one anything much, because the real winning only begins when one actually is asking oneself what in my life is worth posting here and then tries to post something from that standpoint then...", whereupon the goblin smiled, adding "...anyway, life it too short to miss out on what one might have posted, too short again to care about these heckles too, since if you're "good" then the hecklers are wrong and if you're "not good" you're getting better thus proving those hecklers are just wrong once more, but if you ever give up or over compromises towards their constants now, then they win indeed, and you'll have lost the one thing that had been yours all along..."


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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:54 am

repost from elsewhere

Quote :
when I read posts like that xxxxx, I file it away as only, "torment this person later". I don't even remember why I feel like doing it. That is just how it works.


"...nah, I meet these types all the time, no one remembers them really, so they up their antics hoping to be noticed and down they sink further in my estimation..." replied the goblin as if knowing that if xxxxx really had what it takes to post in his own right he'd have done so by now, saying "...I'm right about him aren't I, but I'm not malicious by nature, just that anyone who tries to put others down, usually shows their own self doubt and weakness, where the fact that that guy has no posts of his own, for all his trolls of others now, can't be my fault just for my pointing it out..."


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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:04 am

repost from elsewhere

"...yes but I'm anonymous, so isn't your argument about my vanity somewhat flawed by that fact then, where obviously my very first post will be the same as my last now, I mean how can one be more modest than that then..." replied the goblin, adding "...so give us an extract from your website, yes I'm whatever then, and I accept it too, but give me something to read of you now for the floor is yours for you to post yourself upon, in that trolling me doesn't advance you where I would like you to become known by your posts where few will ever go near your website until you've offered examples here of why they should go there then...", in fact, the goblin was only a forumland persona, no different from xxxxx in his way, adding "...think over this logic then, if this thread makes about a hundred hits a day, where this process is repeated across many forums each making a hundred hits in their turn, well then, my overall readership becomes far bigger doing it this way than had I just set up a website for your book as you have, no I mean well, yet don't you want to figure out your persona be known by your posts upon an edit thread, for where is the mileage in starting new threads about yourself if each of your threads on any forum then sink into the past replaced by newer threads by someone else, ah but an edit thread doesn't sink because it sends out notifications each time someone contributes to it, so this is not really a thread like other threads, it's a journal between us if you'd like it to be such, or mine alone if you care to be elsewhere..."


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