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 the last person to post here wins

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alj
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fleamailman
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fleamailman


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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyThu May 03, 2012 10:15 am

("...nice post, makes me think of one must evolve in one's own way at one's own pace too..." mentioned the goblin)

repost from elsewhere, the "why do you write" thread, finished

“...I write because you read...” replied the goblin, adding “...where I read because you reply to what I write I suppose...”, simply the goblin's idea was one main thread and a post a day to it while keeping an eye on the hitcount now, explaining “...in fact, even where one is anonymous the hitcount still remains a clear reflection of readership here, so now, if a thread only makes five hits a day, it needs rethinking or another forum/venue perhaps, or perhaps I'll just post around a bit to show others my pen where for example "the introduction section" is a great place to meet new members aka readers, whereas, on the other hand if one's thread has already made twenty hits since one's last post to it, for me that spells momentum so I'll post another work straight off feeding one's readers so to speak but, just like food then, one doesn't feed the readers too fast for them to digest it so a balanced pace it becomes, anyway, if the thread is making fifty hits a day, it's good, whereas if it makes a hundred hits I'm on par with my benchmark elsewhere, where my goal remains a thousand hits now, ah but hopefully by then I won't be the only one doing this, for others will have cottoned on to the potential of forum readership as something that just runs circles around all those other elsewheres...”

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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptySat May 26, 2012 1:41 am

repost from elsewhere, the goblin had mentioned his like for the gnostic gospels, finished

Quote :
hi there.. what is it that you like about it. I don't know it...must look it up

"...ah now, that might get me in hot water for my heresy here..." replied the goblin, adding "...but it turns life into a journey to self within one rather than all that external go to church, pay your tithes, and blindly follow cause he says so...", as the goblin then remembered the line If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you, whereas if you do not have that within you, then what you do not have within you destroy you, whereupon the goblin just added "...so I always harp on about the difference between me and my dailylife in my posts but that's simply because I know that it is within me still, where the romans would have me build a church or something, and o how they must have hated the gnostics then, for what need have gnostics on a journey to self for that which they leave behind them..."

the gospel of thomas

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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyMon Jun 04, 2012 1:14 am

repost from elsewhere, about writing

"...in general when one sees one's vision of the plot one also feel for the characters that go into it..." mentioned the goblin, as if turning the question upon himself too, noting the lateness of the hour now, then that clear moon through the cold french windows once more, and just the dragging of time upon his thoughts, simply he was pacing it without rushing, until finally coming up with a reply that might help, saying "...more than likely, that which you yourself find attractive in a character, your readers will also relate to, yet it's very difficult to write objectively about that which one normally does subjectively like this...", "...um, clear as mud, goblin..." went the chorus in the background breaking out into laughter as if to rub it in, adding "...just tell him that if actors don't become their parts, the audience won't follow and fall for it, and that with the writertypes the same thing holds, ultimately if they don't become each of their parts in turn the readers won't accept their story either, so the writer has to feel for each part now, much like some practised raving schizophrenic would, that is while writing it all down with the zeal that some traffic warden might give out parking tickets too, yes it's a combination of vision and portrayal goblin, just combine those two together and the reader will read even this far now, well as apparently they have nothing else better to do it seems..."

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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 07, 2012 2:09 am

repost from elsewhere, the "introduction" section

“...you're most welcome amongst us sister...” went the goblin with an open mind now, giving xxxxx a fair break then, totally ignoring those more usual stereotype images of beer drinking nuns caught up in pub brawls on football night, and then their being chucked into the back of the police van afterwards for disturbing the peace with those unruly shouts of adoration towards our dear lord once more, adding “...indeed, for I promise to treat you no differently than if you had been normal now...”, and with that the goblin knew he was in for some good rapport, for simply he loved conversing with ordinary people, and nuns too, over cabbages and kings here, saying “...I'm on your side, for I'll read whatever you write, where simply my role is to grow you as a writer here, besides, you nuns take those vows of poverty don't you, whereas it seems the writers here don't really need to take those vows, ah no, in the grand scheme of things they're just poor by default without any vows needed..”

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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptySat Jun 16, 2012 12:06 pm

repost from elsewhere, the "introduction" section, the goblin catching up with a post and run type

"...ah now, before I welcomed you warmly but you turned out to be just another post and run author after all..." went the goblin somewhat disappointed in seeing only two posts in four months, both in introductions and both blowing one's own trumpet about one's latest book, adding "...actually I had imagined that your readers here would have been so looking forward to meeting their author now, his on-line persona, the amazing experience of his insights too, but no, instead they'll just see your conceited ad in your place then...", and yes, nothing really told the reader more about an author than his actual absence, adding "...look, I'll still welcome you into this forum whenever you choose to become actively involved in it, removing this post about your inept approach and condescending attitude towards readers here, promise, but honestly, if you were in your reader's shoes now, where they didn't find you where your name is so up in "full view" now, moreover in the introduction section too, could you honestly blame them then for their dumping you for some other author with more foresight and consideration towards them, just this forum is where authors mix in, contribute and exhibit their talents, where those authors who don't, who instead play post and run in the introduction section, soon fall by the wayside overlooked through their own lack of on-line presence..."

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Shelagh
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyMon Jun 18, 2012 1:50 am

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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyMon Jun 18, 2012 8:32 pm

("...glad you liked it and happy to be here..." went the goblin upon seeing Shelagh's post now, adding "...it goes well, your forum is ever a success it seems...")

repost from the "Can you give me a taste of the community here?" thread, finnished


"...I suppose tastes differ somewhat for they are all subjective now, where what you seek in a forum today might not be that which you seek from one tomorrow..." ventured the goblin, who loved joining unknown forums now, adding "...besides, why stay where one is uncomfortable, but conversely who knows without mixing in, and yet, if you place a post in the “introduction” section I'll welcome you personally as I do most people now...", and then the goblin mentioned something in return, saying "...perhaps we're different, for here one writes amongst your readers directly, look around you now, no writer's workshop with educators, one's peers then, using set writing methods churning out clones, no, this is a forum where you just find out through your own experimentation what works for you and what doesn't under some spur of audience to a feeling of self set deadline or benchmark or both...”, whereupon the goblin just smiled cutting in his soliloquy short, saying “...well, doesn't the muse's pact go honestly a shared life and a thick skin, where no one is forcing you to sign that pact here though I will journey with you awhile if you do...”

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 12:34 pm

repost from elsewhere, talking to some who had just lost her job in the government cutbacks

"...and now I must go back to posting elsewhere after this..." replied the goblin, aware that situation was in fact far worse than one was being told by ourdearmedia here, simply none of their given sums added up correctly, where increasingly america looked like the end of the roman empire did, with its over extended boarders, political paralysis, mountains of red tape, vested interests, record breaking wealth gaps, its fast devaluing money, its muffled out of touch disinterested populous hoodwinked by ourdeamedia, a patriot act where anyone can be detained without charge without right of representation indefinitely, follow by a NDAA act that now someone can be killed outright if deemed an enemy of the state, in short this was not the america the goblin had grown up with, no america had changed radically, so the goblin simply repeated his view, saying "...I love america, americans and their peanut butter, but if I don't speak out, others might not see the situation for what it actually is, believing instead in an america that they are trying to portray still, where sweeping the truth under some patriotic flag-like carpet is not patriotism now, no, clearly voicing your concern to them about the way things are going is actual patriotism..."

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 24, 2012 2:11 am

repost from the "first of third person thread", finished

"...nah, the question is not "which is better" nor "where's the difference", no it's simply "which one feels more right for the work in hand here"..." mentioned the goblin merely suggesting to take a little time-out to try fist writing a chapter in the one, and then exactly the same chapter in the other now, explaining "...well, what works for others may not work for you where the opposite is also true now...", in fact, the goblin liked writing in third because it gave a better scope to those latent schizophrenic tendencies that most writers seemed to possess, simply it aided in any change of focus away from the main character to another character within him, "...you're not making sense goblin, but don't worry about it, no one reads this far anyway do they now..." went the snide voice in the background that just continued "...no, just tell the poster there that taking advice form goblins invariably gets one ever more confused here...", whereupon the goblin just hit the post button without further ado since with writing there was only ever one person who actually knew the answers to their own questions

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Shelagh
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 24, 2012 3:04 am

fleamailman wrote:
... with writing there was only ever one person who actually knew the answers to their own questions
That would be rhetorical, then, no?
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fleamailman
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fleamailman


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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 24, 2012 6:49 am

("...I'm afraid that would be most rhetorical indeed, plus the more unsure I was the more I would be seeking reassurance in terms of an answer from others that matched my own conjecture now, seems that few people ever ask anything without suspecting the answer to be something attune to their own conjecture now..." replied the goblin always appreciating shelagh for her input, adding "...forumland has been kind to me of late, where those bans and deletions seem to be a thing of the past, I'm always here...")

repost from elsewhere, the "hope you like weird" thread

Quote :
Contrary to the appearance of the above two posters we do not require people to write in third person.

"...and quite right too, where of course you can write in first person now..." mentioned the goblin, continuing "...oh, and then just add inverted comers at either end with a mention of who or what is saying it, where I have it on good account that many a writer does just that then, though that other bit, about their placing the laptop on the floor and then doing a slow inspirational dance to get those writing juices flowing within them, had yet to be substantiated...", and with that, as in a token of good will and encouragement towards xxxxx. the goblin simply added a stream that he imagined might help any would-be writer, and normal people alike, get into their deeper writing mode once more, saying "...ah yes, anything to help those members on this forum reach their full literary potential now, where I'm sure they will just thank me later..."


to help writertypes, and normal people too, connect with their inner writing muse then, just click me here

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alj
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 24, 2012 7:05 am

fleamailman wrote:



to help writertypes, and normal people too, connect with their inner writing muse then, just click me here


No [other] words need be spoken.

Ann
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 24, 2012 7:23 am

("...help, I didn't suspect for a moment that anyone still read my posts here..." went the goblin thanking Ann and the others then, adding "...I love this forum, it's full of surprises...")

repost from "introduction" thread, where the posters had started talking about marmite instead

and with that the goblin had somehow guessed that by now that everyone had forgotten that this was in fact xxxxx's introduction here, saying "...welcome then, look, I'm awfully sorry about the others here, no, they mean well I'm sure, only that they're writertypes, where I suspect the writertype too needs to be introduced to you newbies here, well then, a writertype is rather like a troll, save that the big difference between him and a troll is that the troll actually knows he's a troll, whereas the writertype has yet to stumble upon that self-realization, resulting in his invariably going off on long tangent called a soliloquy, leaving the rest of humanity and other creatures too, completely amazed that anyone can write this much, and worse, that others, perhaps to their better judgement even, actually read this far now, where of course you're thinking that there must be something wrong with yourself for reading now, and where probably you're asking yourself too, why o why has no one ever come up with a sign marked "don't feed the writertypes"...", "...well perhaps goblin, that's because us writertypes know how to feed ourselves by now..." went the muted chorus in the background

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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 24, 2012 9:20 pm

repost from elsewhere

Quote :
Would you read a young adult book? What would make you want to read one?

"...no, the first thing I would do is go onto the writer's forum in search of that author now, why, because the days of my blindly buying a book in some bookstore or of purchasing that book just because someone had done a fab review in the media, or in their own blog for that matter, are ending as we speak..." replied the goblin here, not meaning to offend but simply explaining how the phenomenal growth of forumland, and moreover of those writer's forums upon it, is causing any established or would-be author to seriously reconsider their on-line presence on pain of losing their readership to another more pronounced responsive author on those forum, whereupon the goblin smiled, saying "...well, I never link links nor name names but if you would care to check up on a few writer's forums, you'll soon notice how they are fast changing form being that standard idea of writer's workshop with educators and peers to something more like a writer's showroom window with the writers on hand, something on hindsight that does seem rather obvious considering that almost the first thing a reader does when interested in someone's writing is google their username to find more of them..."

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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 27, 2012 12:47 am

repost from elsewhere, the goblin issuing a public health warning

Quote :
as only i could i drifted between threads..remembering times went past...reminiscing of what it means to be alive...only then did i realise..i never was..&& with that i made a change...

"...definitely your best post so far xxxxx, profound, meaningful, and imaginative..." replied the goblin, reflecting "...yes it's amazing how posting can just seem like something that one lights up and smokes then, yet one has to be careful of that little hidden addiction there for it often starts with a few unsuspecting experimental drags on one's pen so to speak until it's too late to do otherwise, where one just feels the dire need to do yet another post, and where over the years the slow decline in one's mental health becomes all too evident to those around one..."

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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyFri Jun 29, 2012 6:40 am

repost from elsewhere, the "can money buy happiness" thread

"...ah no, one has to ask oneself whether one's awareness is due to one's contentment or to one's anguish here, just pain to open the eyes as they say..." mentioned the goblin thinking upon it once more, and then continuing "...where clearly the choice, between a happy sheep or an unhappy wolf, is one that most humans either face or compromise to, in that someone might exchange their awareness for the trappings of dailylife and those trinkets of the moneygod becoming yet another contented sheep by it, but that lone wolf amongst those sheep is always aware that all around him was ever just one long journey to self then, just pain to open the eyes then and the cold truth by it I suppose..."

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 01, 2012 9:28 am

repost from "what's on your mind" thread, finished

perhaps the goblin was thinking about what his daughter told just told him of his father on her passing visit, the loss of facial expressions now, the last stage of parkinson's perhaps, saying "...so my mother died of a growing incomprehension in her dementia, whereas with my father its a growing inability to parkinson's...", "...pain to open the eyes goblin, where nothing and no one was ever yours to hold onto now..." softly voiced the muse again in the back of the goblin's mind once more, continuing "...besides, I know you too well goblin, oh yes, you'll catch the fall of those you love won't you, but you won't let them catch you in return...”, “...yes, I suppose so, when that time comes then muse, for I doubt too that I could do otherwise, seeing what I have seen and knowing what I know, it's for them then and for myself mostly but till that time our little pact holds, our journey to self then but not one at a price to others...”

It's Hard To Say Goodbye - Michael Ortega

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alj
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 01, 2012 9:57 am

"...pain to open the eyes goblin, where nothing and no one was ever yours to hold onto now..." softly voiced the muse again in the back of the goblin's mind once more, continuing "...besides, I know you too well goblin, oh yes, you'll catch the fall of those you love won't you, but you won't let them catch you in return...”, “...yes, I suppose so, when that time comes then muse, for I doubt too that I could do otherwise, seeing what I have seen and knowing what I know, it's for them then and for myself mostly but till that time our pact holds, a our journey to self then but not at a price to others...”

Yes.
Ann
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 02, 2012 12:30 pm

(the goblin liked Ann, knowing that she was a great credit the forum, saying "...I love writing in posts on forums, and this forum always has a good vibe so back I come each time...")

repost from elsewhere

by now the goblin knew subjectively that writing wasn't what most non-writers imagined it to be here whereas most writers too, probably found out too late that it isn't what they had bargained for either, explaining "...isn't there always a risk of self deception here, that once one has built up some shared life with a muse, once one had succeeded in whatever goal one had envisaged with her, that one can then simply dump her, unshare one's life, and somehow crawl back to that superficial surface living like before, but no that's not the way it goes is it, for all this sharing, much like keeping a dream diary, or like those who see ghosts then, is something where the practice reinforces the sharedness...", where perhaps too, the goblin had been one of those fools who hadn't bothered to look closely enough at the small print of the muse's pact then, the part that actually read warning, last sanity check: you can't get her back into her bottle once you let her out, are you quite sure you want to sign the pact with a muse now

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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 02, 2012 4:01 pm

Ah, Goblin.

You have a surgeons skill. Thank you for all you are.

Love,

Betty
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fleamailman
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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 02, 2012 11:08 pm

("...thanks..." replied the goblin at betty's post, adding "...recently God has touched you betty, a little reminder perhaps to write out of yourself that which is awaiting on your pen inside, so if ever you find that you have a post in hand and nowhere else to post it to, just post it here then, where all I can promise in return is that I'll read it, giving you a readership of at least one now, so yes it's the humble slot perhaps but it's ever a canvas to paint upon too, care to paint in words betty, now is always the time for anything I suppose...")



repost elsewhere,

[footnote: livewriters often go on landings, that is they turn up at some unknown forum, while keeping to the off topics section there, just to see what kind of reception awaits]

the goblin's landing was going nowhere, as he looked upon the first PM warning he had received upon joining where rule number 6 is No Trolling/Impersonating: Post as yourself. If your username is a character name from a movie or a famous person, post as yourself, not said character. Everybody knows you are not a made up character. Posting as one just annoys everyone. You will be banned if you do this. If you actually are a famous person then please prove so before being allowed to post as that person, to which the goblin then wondered whether the fact that what one sees are words on a screen had crossed the mind of the person who made up those rules now, saying "...ok, so how does one compromise to this here, but why should one compromise now, and moreover even if one were to replace the goblin with something else, anything one thinks of as more oneself even, that too would just be another representation now, where let's face it, all written words represent concepts that collectively form the persona of the poster, for no one is actually here, all that is here is just a virtual reality of representation..." mentioned the non goblin perhaps, but by now the goblin was boring with the forum's mindset anyway, yes he would remain polite, accepting the eventual ban or more likely bowing out before that come, for in his heart he knew that it was not the kind of forum that would grow one's persona truely into oneself, simply the landing had reaffirmed all he hated about those type forums anyway, saying "...honestly I'd rather have all my faults than be burdened by half of their compromise..."

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 03, 2012 1:56 pm

repost from "what's on your mind" thread, finished

the goblin was thinking how surreal it was to be actually living in a reserve currency economy rather than either a production economy or an agricultural economy, meaning that if switzerland's production or agriculture were to collapse its economy would still be bolstered by the confidence in its currency, whereas no matter how much its production or agriculture thrived, if its currency collapsed switzerland would fall to the wayside, so the goblin explained, saying "...currencies are like tectonic plates where for example, the african plate, the euro in this analogy, is sliding under the european plate, the swiss franc now, where both plates have agreed to peg their currencies together at 1euro/1.2franc but where the swiss are now short selling their currency at the tune of millions of francs each day to maintain this peg the, yet confidence, in spite of the hype of ourdearmedia and assurances of needy politicians, is at rock bottom resulting in an uncontrollable build up in pressure upwards that will culminate into a sudden whiplash of correction, a fiscal earthquake then, raising the franc to ever new heights when it has to unpeg...", so the goblin just returned to his point of feeling it to be surreal to be actually living in a reserve currency economy instead of a real one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXgXeQ5Us-A&feature=related


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fleamailman


Number of posts : 957
Registration date : 2010-04-30

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 04, 2012 4:19 am

("...sorry folks, I can't post for others forever, so this is me going back to my journey now..." went the goblin being himself again, adding "...delete it if you must though I will understand...")

repost from elsewhere,

the goblin had stumbled across a post mortem photos stream on youtube where he was reminded of that story in the bible where god punishes king saul for having sought answers from the dead samuel through a clairvoyant, where somehow he knew too, that all this victorian love of death was so wrong and that it will only bring ill on those who delve in that direction, and yet he didn't know why he knew it, just he knew it as something deep within one as wrong beyond base logic here, "...just another something one knows from within then..." mentioned the goblin drawing a parallel to the black spot in treasure island, and then as if to break away form the lure of those questions it posed and the stirred emotions too, his mind fell back upon what the nun had posted recently instead, or more precisely to a simple phrase wordless prayer that had stuck in the goblin's conscience, saying "...ah no, not prayers like calculating thoughts and shopping lists towards the great whatever, no, more like a presence of something within one that has no words to describe it, that's wordless prayer to me, a connection perhaps without any their preconditions now, just something I know again..."

memento mori - post-mortem photography, not for the sensitive, hope you share a feeling of aversion towards it

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Last edited by fleamailman on Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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alj
Five Star Member
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alj


Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 80
Location : San Antonio

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 04, 2012 6:32 am

"...his mind fell back upon what the nun had posted recently instead, or more precisely to a simple phrase wordless prayer that had stuck in the goblin's conscience, saying '...ah no, not prayers like calculating thoughts and shopping lists towards whatever, no, more like a presence of something within one that has no words to describe it, that's wordless prayer to me, a connection perhaps without any their preconditions now, just something I know again...' "


Quote :
You are not here to verify,
Instruct yourself, or inform curiosity
Or carry report. You are here to kneel
Where prayer has been valid. And prayer is more
Than an order of words, the conscious occupation
Of the praying mind, or the sound of the voice praying.

T. S. Eliot; "Little Gidding;" The Four Quartets

But to apprehend
The point of intersection of the timeless
With time
, is an occupation for the saint—
No occupation either, but something given
And taken, in a lifetime's death in love,
Ardour and selflessness and self-surrender.
For most of us, there is only the unattended
Moment, the moment in and out of time,
The distraction fit, lost in a shaft of sunlight,
The wild thyme unseen, or the winter lightning
Or the waterfall, or music heard so deeply
That it is not heard at all, but you are the music
While the music lasts

T. S. Eliot; "The Dry Salvages;" The Four Quartets

Your work, goblin, reminds me of my favorite poet.

Ann
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fleamailman
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fleamailman


Number of posts : 957
Registration date : 2010-04-30

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PostSubject: Re: the last person to post here wins   the last person to post here wins - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 04, 2012 9:52 am

("...thanks ann, I've been reading your posts recently, you're a talent indeed..." mentioned the goblin who had kept that post back but had increased his posting pace instead, where today too, he had joined yet another forum on one of those landings as he called them, only to be ousted before long he imagined, saying "...again and again and again, pity they can't be like publishauthors then, ah but if it were ever easy then it wouldn't be worth the candle...")

repost from elsewhere, the topic of anonymity again

"...loved that post xxxxx..." replied the goblin, acknowledging talent where he saw it, adding "...often it's just more practical to be able to address some matter honestly as an unknown than it is as a known here, where for example across many writers forums are those who wish for fame and fortune to the extent that they will actually compromise their individuality for the sake of becoming acknowledged as a writer to the extent that sameness results...", so there was that then, but also, the goblin knew too that the more opinionated one became the more those opinions might ruffle the feathers of the power's that be around one, concluding "...I mean who for example would have thought that the bunch to thugs would take power in 1933 and would then hold accountable all those who had decried them back in 1923, yet the nazis did just that then concerning their failed beer hall putsch coup, so it's just prudent to be anonymous for that reason too then, much as the recent vetting of facebook accounts by british police for suspected agitators of the london riots much as those subsequent arrests and resulting convictions suggests..."

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