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 Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog

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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:51 am

All of my children chose to go into education, so I get a lot of feedback, even though it has been ten years since I retired. Susan, as a counselor, has the opportunity to work closely with students who come in with issues that affect their ability to work. Dave and his Lyn are now tenured professors in a university that is dedicated to teaching future teachers. Lynn is a middle school administrator now, and gets frustrated by the demands of parents who have a great deal of power, but not necessarily the knowledge of what needs to be done in the classroom.

When I first started teaching, the old rule of en loco parentis still applied: while children were at school during the day, the teachers and staff served as parents, and the students were expected to follow their instructions.

One of the other things that concerns Lynn is the lack of funding, including funds to pay decent salaries. If you want to attract good teachers, you have to pay them well, and then trust them to do their job. Not many teachers are in it for the money because there isn't that much to be had. It's one of the reasons the best teachers soon become administrators and counselors. But that creates a situation that is a bit like our problems with politics. From their "higher" perspective, these leaders sometimes lose sight of what is really happening in the classroom, and the central offices get padded with unnecessary positions while those doing the work of teaching become powerless, caught between the administrators and parents. When teaching is a respected profession, the best candidates will be attracted. Pay them well and let them do the job they were trained for and meant to do.

Discipline is not often a problem for a staff that realizes that each student has a unique value and purpose, and relates to them from that perspective. It is not so much, in that setting, about the qualities of individual teachers as it is a community of educators whose common goal is to see all students succeed. I had the privilege of working in two such communities. The programs worked. In both instances, that made the central office uncomfortable, and they tightened control, and insisted on interfering, and the programs suffered - which meant the students suffered as well.

Ann
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Victor D. Lopez
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:25 am

Alice,

I don't think anyone accused you of hating anyone, certainly not I, nor do I find your comments in the least bit hateful or irrelevant. I don't hate anyone either, including Bill Clinton for all of his failings (and I recognize him as a very good president, overall with many counterbalancing strengths). I most certainly do not hate Obama and nothing I've written here or elsewhere could lead any honest reader to that conclusion (other than perhaps to extremists who equate all criticism with hatred and would place you and me in that category).

And I think everything that points to character matters, to a point. People who mistreat animals are not to be trusted, generally. Neither are those who violate their marital vows or take advantage of interns for selfish gratification. My only point was that we need balance and honesty by all in casting stones on both sides. We can't turn a blind eye to the moral failings and criminal acts of people we like while attacking the wrongful actions of those we dislike.

Hitler, by the way, was reportedly very kind to animals. He was also an artist with some talent. And I suspect he was kind and faithful to Eva Braun long before he married her shortly before ending his miserable existence. That did not prevent him from being one of the worst monsters the world has known.


Last edited by Victor D. Lopez on Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:47 am

Victor wrote:
Quote :
Hitler, by the way, was reportedly very kind to animals. He was also an artist with some talent. And I suspect he was kind and faithful to Eva Braun long before he married her shortly before ending his miserable existence. That did not prevent him from being one of the worst monsters the world has known.

Victor, you might be interested in looking over this website. The article on this page, among others, references Miller's studies of the effect of childhood abuse, which is one of the important (I think) side tracks that has developed on this thread:
Quote :
... I published For Your Own Good, referring to three biographies to indicate the social consequences that cruel parenting can have. One of the things the book revealed was the way in which the complete and utter eradication of empathy from the earliest years and constant persecution by the father turned the former child Adolf Hitler into a mass murderer with the blood of millions of people on his hands. In my later books I have repeatedly demonstrated how the political careers of mass murderers like Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Milosevic, and others were rooted in the denial of the humiliations inflicted on them in childhood. ..... Alice Miller

Annie
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:58 am

Abe F. March wrote:
In the last days before the election, dirty tricks are being played. Dirt is being dug up and the oposing side tries to equalize it.

Yesterday I received an email from an address I didn't recognize. I was one of 15 on the email list. It was about Romney and the dirty tricks played on him. I thought the email was from a school friend in Pennsylvania that is a Republican. I answered to "all" addresses and said, "Don't send me anymore political Bullshit".
Later I received another email from the same person telling me that his sister who is visiting his cousin here in my village traveled only with summer clothes. Then I recognized who the sender was. He is a staunch Republican from Florida. In the same email he says, "Your Obama in Action - yes BS". It contained an Website that says, "Vote for Obama, he gives a free Phone."

It is amazing how low the political promoters will go to stimulate hate.


Victor,

Thank you for your kind words. Your post was the first in a line of negatives: Joe's, "This has gone far enough" proclamation. The clincher is shown above.

Understandably, I did not view it favorably. I accept your explanation and admire your stance. I agree with you, in fact . Thank you for clearing up this situation.


Last edited by alice on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:07 am

9/30/2012

Alice..

No I was sober when I wrote that...I did read that Obama's

own people said he wasn't too good at debating but he can

talk to a crowd, nothing wrong with that, there is no reason

for you to get mad at me, I'm still the same lovable Joe, it

amazes me how people discussing politics get upset when you

don't agree with them, it's called freedom of speech and someone

has different ideas........

Cheers..Joe...Very Happy
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:25 am

joefrank wrote:
9/29/2012

I think this has gone too far !

Joe...........



Freedom of Speech?
Then why did you try to cut mine off?
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:37 am

Victor elaborated on my contention that some people compartmentalize their thoughts and behaviors. They have lovely families and are the support of their community while profit from the sale of heroine and cocaine and all that those drugs unleash.

There have been studies that powerful/wealthy men are more likely to use that type of thinking as many business decisions are heartless and could not otherwise be made. The military uses those methods, too, but not as successfully as evidenced by the high incidence of PTSD, etc.

The U.S. is one of the few countries with intense media attention to the private lives of notable people and judgment regarding their morality. Other countries do not hold their leaders to such high moral standards publicly though they may have similar thoughts privately.

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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:42 am

joefrank wrote:
9/29/2012

Leave the dog alone, picking on the poor dog is animal

abuse.....Next Wed. everyone will see who is the real

champion of debates...Obama's people admitted he's no

good at debates, but when it comes talking to the public

he sures knows how to dazzle them with his intellect and

baffle them with his bullshit !.....



Cheers...Joe...

I'm so confused!
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:48 am

Ann,


You are not alone.
Anyone who reads this thread from post one on would be confused. flower flower flower
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:01 am

joefrank wrote:
9/30/2012

Alice..

No I was sober when I wrote that...I did read that Obama's

own people said he wasn't too good at debating but he can

talk to a crowd, nothing wrong with that, there is no reason

for you to get mad at me, I'm still the same lovable Joe, it

amazes me how people discussing politics get upset when you

don't agree with them, it's called freedom of speech and someone

has different ideas........

Cheers..Joe...Very Happy







Joe, I am quite accustomed to folks not agreeing on politics--also free speech issues:)
I realize you do not like Obama--you have made that fact clear and crystal clear.
I happen to like him. We do not agree-- fine


Why was I disparaged for sharing a fact about how Romney treated his dog?

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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:35 am

9/30/2012

The dog story is old, I feel everyne should sit back

sift through the issues, as far as I'm concerned neither

candidate has stood before the American public with a

black board and put down what they really are going to

do ? Them talking about it and not showing in black and white

isn't going to help, by the way I'm sorry if I offended you, you

to me have been a good friend...Oh by the way I'm not a Romney

fan, I think they could have choosn wiser, someone who has Kahonas!

As far as I'm concerned the bet is still on....Maybe you have a blank

wall ?



Love Joe...Very Happy
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:44 am

Thank you for this post, Joe. Your points are very clear, and I am starting to see where you are coming from. I may not completely agree, but I get where you are.

BTW, is kahonas the same thing as cojones? If so, I agree.

Annie
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KatjaB
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:03 pm

Hiya All,

just am getting over a killer-cold and thought I would drop in and say "hi."

As an "outsider"- wink-wink- hug-hug... you guys seem to be chasing your tails, just a little.

Personally, I am looking forward to the debates- but I'll be missing the first one, since Cable and Internet won't get connected until the 4th.
Big sigh... I may have to try to catch it in some establishment in Dallas.... kind of don't want to miss the first one...another big sigh.
The bad thing about watching something like this in public is that you have to watch your comments...lol... guess I will have to hold back, huh?

Huggles,
Katja
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:08 pm

Chasing our tails - is that another dog reference???

Good to see you back Katja.

Annie
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:24 pm

Thank you, Joe,
The offense is wiped out and the bet is back on.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:27 pm

Welcome back, Katja, Great to see you again
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KatjaB
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:36 pm

Thanks for having me Smile

Annie...lol... I could not resist

Huggles,

Katja
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:11 pm

Both the Republican Club and the Democratic Club are having "Debate Watches" where a bunch of people get together to watch the debates at someone's house. They arranged it on the internet. You might want to look into that.
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Victor D. Lopez
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:14 pm

Anne,

Thanks for the links. They reveal a very interesting perspective, though I am not persuaded yet as to the nature/nurture subtext that no doubt informs them.

I honestly think that both play critical parts of the formation of conscience and empathy--or the lack thereof. I also believe that while overly strict parents, and especially ones who subject their children to violence, can certainly influence the moral and intellectual development of their children in a myriad of negative ways, overly permissive parents who allow their children to do as they please can have the exact same impact. Both can be largely to blame for creating antisocial little monsters of various kinds (though the former are clearly responsible for creating more true sociopaths). And I also believe that nature inoculates many people from the destructive effects of cruel and overly permissive parents.

Although I am not a psychologist, I am confident that trained professionals along with the rest of us can find ample evidence--both clinical and anecdotal--to confirm their point of view and validate their core beliefs, and that they skew their research and conclusions accordingly both consciously and subconsciously--the same as the rest of us. The same is true of our political beliefs that are informed to no small extent by our view of human nature and our not unrelated stand on the importance of nature versus nurture on character and other human traits. For people on the left, nurture is all that matters as we are all essentially identical blank slates at birth. For people on the right, nurture is largely irrelevant and nature is the only vital determinant of behavior (and intelligence, success, ability, morality, etc.). Both extremes get very, very angry when their assumptions are challenged. Both groups are arrogant in the belief of the obvious superiority of their world view. Both groups are equally blind to all evidence pointing to a conclusion that is antithetical to their world view and get equally angry at anyone who "attacks" them (read: disagrees).

I distrust both sides equally. I am not a true centrist, but am close enough to it to know that I cannot trust my own world view. Philosophically, I am closest to a neo-Platonist. Lesson number one on the way to wisdom from the master himself: I know that I know nothing. Let others live with their delusions to the contrary.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:21 pm

I know that I have very strong opinions that from your analysis are left leaning; however, I also know that any theory that is considered absolute is absolutely wrong in light of the multiple factors involved with human thought. Therefore, I like my ideas challenged; even though I argue with passion, my mind takes in the opinions of others and sifts them a bit to alter some of my thinking patterns and confirm others. I tend to think I am eclectic more than centrist; left leaning.
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Victor D. Lopez
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:34 pm

D.K.,

Right or left leaning people are not the problem. I lean right, but am still nearer to the center than to the right. And I happily fail most litmus tests that either extreme normally administers as entries to their club. I don't think you or I are the problem--or our other vocal friends here. My comments are not intended to imply otherwise, though some may misinterpret them that way from time to time and that can be my fault as much as theirs. I like to call them as I see them--above board and face to face. That is true of you and our other colleagues on this board as well. That's why I read and respond as often as I do. there are no shortage of places that espouse only one point of view. I never visit them. Were this such a place, I'd quickly absent myself too. That does not mean we can't have some strong and vocal disagreements. It's all great by me as long as these remain civil and not personal.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:00 pm

It is unfortunate that when a discussion gets close to someone's core beliefs, emotions may lead to saying things that become "attacks" rather than opinions or name calling, even if not intended it may feel so by the reader.

We had another person posting here that was quite extreme in her opinions and challenged quite often; but she left. We had some spirited discussions!
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:08 pm

9/30/2012



I hate to sound Dah ! What is BTW ?

Cheers..Joe..Very Happy
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:18 pm

Joe,


BTW=By the way-- I think--may be wrong--wouldn't be the first or last time. lol!


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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Mitt Romney Is Not Kind To His Dog   Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:25 pm

I am an oddity. Have always been and having folks disagree with me is nothing new or unusual,
The only thing that riles me unduly is when they attack my honesty.

My religion is not the run of the mill kind either. I am a Seventh day Adventist and do not agree with everything my fellow church members endorse.

I went to private schools and was told what to think about everything all of the time.

I now think for myself.

I prefer the news related to me and I will form my own opinions.
I am a free thinker.
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