Published Authors

A place for budding and experienced authors to share ideas about publishing and marketing books
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister  Log in  Featured MembersFeatured Members  ArticlesArticles  

Share
 

 Native American

Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
dkchristi

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Native American   Native American EmptySat Jul 28, 2012 10:43 am

Every time I view a movie or read about the Indian population of this United States, I am in absolute wonder at the audacity of the settlers to take the land from the Indians.

Maybe this crime is in the fabric of the United States and haunts all that we do; perhaps it lies beneath our cities and suburbs where once the land was pristine and roamed by free peoples who fought each other but understood the basic harmony between nature and man.

Ah yes, some tribes have become wealthy through Casinos, but the nature of the Indian was forever changed by Europeans, their numbers drastically reduced by disease and wars to save their land. Many of the remaining tribes and native american people are still racked with alcoholism, poverty and desperation on dusty reservation land. People don't talk about it much; but they are still a poor nation within a wealthy nation.

I don't know how we can sit in judgment about how another country manages its affairs or interfere. Our own history carries such tarnish. Likewise, Europe cannot sit in judgment about the country their explorers created.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
dkchristi

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySat Jul 28, 2012 10:54 am

What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul.

I know that comes from scripture somewhere, and scripture can be used to support heinous as well as good. However it seems to apply at so many levels of behavior.

There is no justification for the greed that drives so many at the expense of others, whether historically or in the present.

Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
alice
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
alice

Number of posts : 15672
Registration date : 2008-10-22
Age : 72
Location : Redmond, WA

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySat Jul 28, 2012 11:23 am

DK

I agree.
Back to top Go down
http://www.freewebs.com/acrooker/
Betty Fasig
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Betty Fasig

Number of posts : 4334
Registration date : 2008-06-12
Age : 76
Location : Duette, Florida

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySat Jul 28, 2012 1:55 pm

Dear DK

I think that every nation has much to be ashamed of and much that should not be fogiven. I live in my own little world. I try not to hurt anyone, try to be of service when I can and live much like you do, with hope. I feel powerless to change much except my own little space and time. Like you, I say, let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me. I will vote. It is my only hope of changeing this nation. Telling other people my take on politics just gets me where it gets you. People who believe what the see in political sound bites, people who understand nothing past those messages. I hope we do not deserve what we might get through ignorance. I am an Obama advocate. He has been the bravest of the brave this last term. Here in Florida, people seem to buy into the idea that the whole of this nations problems rest on Mr. Obama shoulders. They seem to forget that George W. ruined this nation. They seem to forget that Gov Scott swindled medicare and bought his office. Everyone seems to forget Reagan.

Perhaps be do deserve what we get....at least who we vote for.

Thank your for your voice.

Love,

Betty
Back to top Go down
http://woofferwood.webs.com/
joefrank
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
joefrank

Number of posts : 8210
Registration date : 2008-11-04
Age : 71
Location : Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySat Jul 28, 2012 3:57 pm

7/28/2012

DK...

I remember seeing a documentary several years ago on The

Learning Channel, I forget the title but it told the real truth of

what happened to The Native Americans from 1600's to the 1890's.

I've seen it three times and thought wouldn't it be great if they can

show this in schools, very educational ! By the way here in Santa Fe

on August 18 & 19th is The Native American Art Festival, Native

Americans come from all over the USA to Santa Fe, their are 1000

artists and on Sunday the 19th is when they have Native Americans

in their beautiful costumes, that's when I'll be their photographing

them.....I'll post photos later that day.

Cheers.Joe...Very Happy
Back to top Go down
http://joseph-frank-baraba-artistwebsites.om
alice
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
alice

Number of posts : 15672
Registration date : 2008-10-22
Age : 72
Location : Redmond, WA

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySat Jul 28, 2012 6:32 pm

It is true, let bygones be bygones. We didn't mistreat the Indians, hold slaves or otherwise engage in barbarism. but our ancestors, out of ignorance, did.
We can only try to be fair now.

Every person should have equal rights and respect.
Back to top Go down
http://www.freewebs.com/acrooker/
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
dkchristi

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySat Jul 28, 2012 7:51 pm

Betty is right that every country has its historical travesties. Joe, I would like to see that movie and I am glad you are photographing the beauty of the Indian culture..

I do believe though I did not keep slaves or cause harm to Indians, people all around me exhibit characteristics of bias, prejudice and hate that illustrate we have not learned to love our neighbor as ourself - and it is that way across the world.

When I was younger, I kept silent. However, I now believe that I have the experience and education from life to offer thoughts into the universe and perhaps one person will rethink their attitude toward people who are different than they are.

Yes, peace does begin with me; but people every day in this time and place experience irrational hate and prejudice. For me, it's not quite enough to look for peace in my surroundings; I want to participate in the quest for fairness to others as well.
Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
alj
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
alj

Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 76
Location : San Antonio

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySat Jul 28, 2012 8:02 pm

I will be covering a bit of that situation in Daniel's Daughter. I have decided that Daniel's Comanche son, Ahoti, rode with Quanah Parker. I found a great bio on him recently. The timing is perfect - 1873 was the last year he rode free, before finally giving in and going to the reservation. The bio gives much detail about his mother and how she was treated by her white family. It makes a good parallel to Daniel's own family.

Ann
Back to top Go down
http://www.annjoiner.com
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10704
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySat Jul 28, 2012 9:17 pm

Good subject. Coming to terms with our own history helps us avoid pointing fingers at others. I don't know of any nation that doesn't have a dark side - a bad side that they are not proud of.
I concur with the above posts. Change begins with us as individuals. We may not be able to change the world, but we can change how we live our lives and how we treat others. Those with much life experience see things differently than those who have little experience and exposure to other cultures. Understanding why people live the way they do, understanding their customs is a big first step. Everyone is different and that difference makes them special. Trying to make people just like us is not only wrong, but futile.
Speaking out against injustice can cause people to think and perhaps open their minds. Awareness is lacking with many. That word alone can make a difference in our lives. Being aware of everything around us, living with eyes wide open, is a big first step.
Back to top Go down
joefrank
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
joefrank

Number of posts : 8210
Registration date : 2008-11-04
Age : 71
Location : Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySat Jul 28, 2012 10:11 pm

7/28/2012

DK....

Here's the full documentary on The American Indian

Holocaust.....
https://youtu.be/gTrbVf6SrCc
https://www.youtube.com/embed/gTrbVf6SrCc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>



Cheers..Joe...Native American 925501
Back to top Go down
http://joseph-frank-baraba-artistwebsites.om
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10704
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySun Jul 29, 2012 3:24 am

As horrible as our treatment of the Native Americans was, we continue to see similar acts happening in other parts of the world. One of the criticisms against the Germans was that they didn’t do anything to stop the activities of the Nazis concerning the Jews. Many simply didn’t know until the end of the war. Those who suspected actions against the Jews were afraid to speak out for fear of their own lives. Either you supported the regime, or you were an enemy of the State. I believe that is some cases, not knowing was part of not wanting to know. To know placed one in danger. Taking any action was a death sentence.
Today the Palestinians are the victims of a land grab. We often hear the expression, “Land for Peace”. Building settlements on occupied territory is much like the American pioneers building settlements on Native American lands. Living in subjugation does not lead to peace. Having your water supply cut off, having a wall built to keep you in place, not allowing you to earn a living, destroying your crops makes it difficult to survive. The natural response is to fight back. We read about the retaliation, but seldom the cause. When the so-called insurrection is put down by force, it is justified as “for security reasons”. Atrocities are largely ignored. Those who do know are reluctant to speak out for fear of other forms of retaliation. To condemn the actions of Israel is not to condemn all Jews; however that is often the perception. To condemn is often to have the label of “Anti-Semitic” attached. I find it strange that those who were once persecuted are now involved in persecuting.
The Native Americans were considered by some to be Savages - cruel and barbarous. The land grab by the early pioneers became a holocaust for the Natives. It appears to have been okay to kill the savages to protect the pioneers. If one considers what it would be like to have our homes/land taken away by force, I think we would fight back. Fighting back in today’s terms, as with freedom fighters, is labeled “Terrorism”.
Those of us who know about injustice and fail to speak out against injustice are as guilty today as those in the past who didn’t want to get involved or feared some form of retaliation. Fear of criticism is a common reason for keeping quiet. I admit to being guilty of that fear. As I grow older, I am less concerned about what people think of me. They don’t have to like me for what I say however I hope to develop the courage to say what I think and feel. Perhaps it will cause someone to see another perspective. Voicing our disapproval at injustice is one small step we can take. The famous quote by Roosevelt, “The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.”
Back to top Go down
alj
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
alj

Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 76
Location : San Antonio

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySun Jul 29, 2012 7:42 am

Abe wrote:

Quote :
The Native Americans were considered by some to be Savages - cruel and barbarous. The land grab by the early pioneers became a holocaust for the Natives. It appears to have been okay to kill the savages to protect the pioneers. If one considers what it would be like to have our homes/land taken away by force, I think we would fight back. Fighting back in today’s terms, as with freedom fighters, is labeled “Terrorism”.

The thing is, their actions could often be savage, cruel, and barbarous. The following is from "Quanah Parker: The War Chief," one of the biographies in Texas Heroes: A Dynasty of Courage, by Mona D. Sizer.

(I have had the book for some time, and ran across it the other day while I was reordering some bookshelves. It also happens to have an excellent bio of Audie Murphy. Finding it right now was one of those synchronistic circumstances where I find the answer to a dilemma sitting on my bookshelves, without me knowing it until it is somehow pushed in front of me.)

Quote :
A Comanche raiding party, probably led by the war chief of the Quahadi tribe[should read Quahadi "band;" there were no Comanche "tribes"], Peta Nocona, swept down on the isolated fort. They stabbed, scalped, and mutilated John Parker. His wife, "Granny," was stripped naked, pinned to the ground with a lance, and raped. His two youngest grandchildren, Cynthia Ann and John...were borne away on horseback to [the]Comancheria.

A bit later:

Quote :
For six years the Texas Rangers and the army of the republic of Texas sought the famous children. In 1842 John Parker was located. He was then twelve. His only close ties were with his sister, who had just become the wife of the great war chief Peta Nocona, the man who had in all likelihood slain her grandfather. John did not want to be brought home to live among strangers whom he could no longer understand. He stayed with the Parkers only until he could steal a horse and ride away. A solitary figure, he moved across the plains searching for Cynthia Ann. Texan and Comanche left him alone with sort of an awed respect. He had declared himself a man. He walked his own path. He belonged to them both, yet he belonged to neither.

Gee, one might even have named him something like Two Horses? Later still:

Quote :
Comanches loved and cherished their children. Their lives on the Staked Plains [or Llano Estacado], moving swiftly on horseback, following the great herds of buffalo, must have been thrilling and fulfilling. Quanah would have been rocked by the motion of a horse within days of his birth. His mother undoubtedly carried him on a cradle board strapped to her back. From there he could see the other members of his tribe riding behind him in long lines and family groups smiling at him. He could look out over the prairie, watch the buzzards floating lazily in the burning blue sky, see the dust devils whirl across the horizen, inhale the sharp creosote smell after the sudden shower.

What Sizer is describing here, although she doesn't clearly say so, is the reflections of a child raised in close communion with nature - probably the biggest and most influential difference between the native Americans and the European invaders. It stems from the very different views of religion between early hunters, who had male gods, and planters, who worshiped a goddess. From a hunter-gatherer society, Europe had moved into an agricultural one, and developed a completely new paradigm for "reality."

The next portion of the story focuses on the effects of the epidemics of diseases brought from Europe to a people who had never built a resistance to their germs. Of course, at that time, neither group knew much about germs, did they? An ironic tragedy.

Cynthia Ann was eventually recaptured by a group of Rangers led by one Sullivan "Sul" Ross - later a governor of Texas. The middle school here in SA, where daughter Lynn began her teaching career was named fo him. They invaded the Comancheria, attacked the camp of Peta Nocona, slaughtered most of the tribe, possible including Peta Nocona himself, and would have killed his wife, only they finally noticed she had blonde hair, and was attempting, with what little English she could remember, to tell them that she was white, and that her name was Cynthia.

Quote :
What happened to Cynthia Ann was much worse than what happened to her lonely brother. She was taken back to the Parker family - who expected her to be glad to see them. Though they did everything they could to care for her and treat her with loving kindness, they had no sympathy for the godless Indian ways. Because of her fame, the state of Texas voted her a pension of $100 a year and a league of land. Yet she was a prisoner. When she tried to escape as her brother had, her family placed her under guard. [Her daughter] died at the age of four of a disease of civilization. For tragic Cynthia Ann, her last reason for living was gone. She scarified her breasts, prayed to the spirits of the Comanches, and starved herself to death.

Quanah went on to become one of the last of the great chiefs to surrender. When he did, he had the courage to accept reality. He became a rancher, and by his death in 1911, was one of, if not the, wealthiest native Americans of his time. The European Texans had always respected him, even as they fought him. They referred to him by his white name as well as his native name: Quanah Parker. He is remembered as a man of honor.

According to the Quahadi, Peta Nocona survived that attack on his camp, and lived for several years after. The main reason for history to say that he did not was the word of the Ranger Captain, Sul Ross, who ran for governor - and won - based on his word that he had killed the despised war chief.

But Quanah's story, as well as that of his parents and grandparents, reminds us that there are no easy answers to this dilemma. This is not a black/white (excuse me; red/white), either/or situation. There were atrocities on both sides. The problem is a lack of understanding of difference, and intolerance for the religious views of the other.


One more quote, this one from Daniel Two Horses Redstone in A Time for Love.

Quote :
Jake turned on him, then, his eyes ablaze.
Daniel let him storm.
“You were at Bandera Pass. You saw it.”
“Actually,’ Daniel replied, as evenly as he could, keeping a bit of distance. “ …didn’t see that much…was kind of out of it, thanks to that ranger named Bell. Seems somebody shoved me under a rock…”
“It was a bloodbath. Maybe you didn’t see, but you know. Hell, your own father died there. Kit Ackland butchered him.”
“My father led the charge. He knew what the consequences might be.”
“Did he? Did he know that for every arrow, knife or lance, that there would be five pistol balls, all fired at close range, as fast as we could pull a trigger?”
“It was an ambush, Jake. We were hidden in the rocks, waiting…”
“And why, Two Horses? Whose land was it anyway? What right did we have to ride into it?”
“You want to talk right? Or butchery? Was it right when my grandfather’s party was attacked? He had left Nacogdoches for San Antonio when they struck, my grandparents killed, my mother, a girl of fifteen, captured.” Jake didn’t respond. Daniel wasn’t sure if he was listening or just tired of raging, so he kept talking, as evenly as he could, “I never even knew she was my mother. My older sister, they told me. I only knew that she was unhappy and distant, and frail, and that she died while I was still a boy - out wandering around the world. When I came home, and the secrets came out, and I decided to come here, to find him, my real father, there were family friends who told me to look for a man named James Bowie. I found him in San Antonio, at a place called The Alamo. If I had arrived a month later, it would have been too late. He told me what they found, what was left of my grandparents and their party. You can make a pretty good guess, Jake. You’ve seen it often enough.” He stopped talking, and allowed what he had said to sink in, then continued, “Who is right in all this? Who is wrong? …And who gets to decide?”

Ann
Back to top Go down
http://www.annjoiner.com
alj
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
alj

Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 76
Location : San Antonio

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySun Jul 29, 2012 8:10 am

One bit more.

An example: I am often appalled at what happened every day in my home town when I was a child. It is hard to believe that the treatment of our African-American citizens was so cold and indifferent, that they were believed to be inferior simply because their skin was a different color. I have to remind myself that there was one of those paradigm changes that occurred during the 1960's, as a result of the civil rights movement. It was inexcusable, but due more to ignorance than evil.

When we look back through history, we can often see other situations that were similar. We are looking back into another reality. From our standpoint, it is not possible for us truly to see the experiences as those who lived it.

We are, once again, in the middle of a changing reality. If we are to find a solution, we must learn to see both sides with compassion.

Just me.

Ann
Back to top Go down
http://www.annjoiner.com
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10704
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySun Jul 29, 2012 8:11 am

Yes, Savages were both Red and White. Finding a reason to justify killing hasn't changed much.
Back to top Go down
alj
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
alj

Number of posts : 9633
Registration date : 2008-12-05
Age : 76
Location : San Antonio

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySun Jul 29, 2012 8:15 am

Let's hope, Abe, that the compassion that can be found in the center of two extremes will begin to win out. I personally believe that we are in a place where we can make a difference by letting go of the fear and guilt that lie at the root of violent "solutions."

We must recognize and embrace our shadows, rather than project them onto others.

Ann
Back to top Go down
http://www.annjoiner.com
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10704
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySun Jul 29, 2012 8:21 am

Compassion is a key element. We are hearing much about that in this political election. Those who are compassionate want to help the sick, the poor and the oppressed. To do this, attention must be brought to bear on the issues. Keeping quiet doesn't work.
Back to top Go down
alice
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
alice

Number of posts : 15672
Registration date : 2008-10-22
Age : 72
Location : Redmond, WA

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptySun Jul 29, 2012 10:35 am

alj wrote:
Let's hope, Abe, that the compassion that can be found in the center of two extremes will begin to win out. I personally believe that we are in a place where we can make a difference by letting go of the fear and guilt that lie at the root of violent "solutions."

We must recognize and embrace our shadows, rather than project them onto others.

Ann

Good idea!
Back to top Go down
http://www.freewebs.com/acrooker/
Ameel
One Star Member
One Star Member
Ameel

Number of posts : 24
Registration date : 2012-07-03
Age : 40
Location : Projectsavepoint@gmail.com

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptyMon Jul 30, 2012 1:08 pm

ok, first of all, the Europeans had no idea there was such a thing called GERMS! or that the Indians had no immunity to it! so its absolutely unfair to say it in a way that suggests they meant to kill that many people! :\

not to mention, it happened so fast, no one even knew what the hell happened!! (the pandemics killings).
the Indians thought it was a curse! and the crazy white man had no idea why were they dieing so easily!! or even real means to save them! and if they had -which i assure u they didnt- i doubt they could build a Phiser co. that fast, to serve that many!!

i mean, lets say it more simply,,

lets assume it happened differently! the spanish ((or anyone else!! world wide!! Chinese, Russians, Romans, even if it was aliens! or someone from the germ-factory Africa!!)) were JUST visiting this newly discovered place! in a different version where the Indians are equally strong and technologically-advanced ((u gotta admit, IT HAD TO HAPPEN SOMEDAY! u can't hide a content forever u know!!)), and all that the Spanish wanted was: "we come in peace.. we come in peace.. lets trade!"

guess what?! people will still move between places, traders from both sides, priests, medicine-men! wars!! the diseases were still going to infect an in-immune CONTENT by that simple and -at a time- controlled contact, just.. as.. fast..!

and the only way to stop it was if the Indians were 500years more advanced than the Spanish so they can save themselves! OR, if they were already immune! there's just no other way to stop it.

its easy to blame someone, "look! the crazy white man killed us! boohoo!!" but no matter how i look at it, the Indians were simply sitting on a biological bomb waiting to explode in their faces.. it was inevitable, and it had to happen one day.

europe suffered the same when the arabs "black-i donno what" infected europe! and killed sooooo soooo very very many ppl!!! ...why isnt anyone complaining!! :\

as for america getting filled with europians.... well! what do u expect?!! :\

theres a GREEN PLACE with mass population decrease! and another, with mass population exploding!! its a simple calculation! the extra population will move SOMEWHERE!! i suppose, towards "the better place they can survive at! with easy access!"... NOT TOWARDS THE POLE!! >O
they will naturally increase ((no one manufactured any extra crazy white folks, i assure u! they were all just NATURALLY BORN)) and fill the space of the NATURALLY DECREASED Indians!!

as for the politics, wars, treaties, land domination!!

haven't we, HUMANS, been doing that all along? :\
haven't the countries of europe changed shape a million times? :\
haven't china? :\
haven't the indians?! :\
i assure u, the indians were not the "peace loving nation" the TV is making u think of'em... in a matter of fact, the Inca kings had to kill their brothers to become kings! AND, turn their skulls into a nice, big, gold-decorated MUGS!! and drink of it every day! *yaeeekkksss* O_o


ppl.... wake up!! its what WE DO!! >D
we fight -as big as countries, as small as in a family- for.... anything and everything! its what we do!

so, i ask again, how is that any different? :\
and how was that -at its time- any different from the standard-level-of-humanity at its time? :\

call me stupid, but no matter how i see it, IT HAD TO HAPPEN, IT HAPPENED NATURALLY, AS HUMANS, AT ITS TIME... and that kind of things that we have no control or understand of -at its time- is what we like to call an ACT OF GOD!

yeah... god can really suck sometimes! :\
Back to top Go down
dkchristi
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
dkchristi

Number of posts : 8594
Registration date : 2008-12-29
Location : Florida

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptyMon Jul 30, 2012 1:51 pm

Just because the human race repeats atrocities does not mean we need to accept that as correct or natural or inevitable. It is possible to evolve into a better race of people.

While pandemics destroyed a lot of the Indian Nation; the tribes were mistreated and forced into living conditions outside their nature or experience.

Interestingly, I have never heard the Indians whimper or complain. Instead they were angry, and that anger sustained those who lived. They did not feel they were owed anything; it was the U.S. government that put them in living conditions that could not sustain them and then added government services to maintain them. To this day, little is heard from Indians regarding those who live still in horrific conditions.

I am complaining. I am wishing we didn't separate them in their own nation but better learned from them to add their wisdom to our culture instead of destroying them. I feel the loss. I feel the shame. No Indian person asked me to feel that way; it is my own sadness for the way things were - and are.

Back to top Go down
http://www.dkchristi.webs.com
Don Stephens
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Don Stephens

Number of posts : 1355
Registration date : 2008-01-25
Age : 81
Location : Wherever my hat's hanging today!

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptyMon Jul 30, 2012 2:52 pm

Cool


Last edited by D. J. (Don) Stephens on Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Ameel
One Star Member
One Star Member
Ameel

Number of posts : 24
Registration date : 2012-07-03
Age : 40
Location : Projectsavepoint@gmail.com

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptyMon Jul 30, 2012 3:22 pm

D. J. (Don) Stephens wrote:
Ameel,

I keep saying everyone is entitled to their opinion and as such you are entitled to yours.

After reading through your ranting several times, I find the only point I can agree with you on is your request to be called stupid! The annihilation of the Native Americans was NOT an act of God, but an act of MAN, be it from ignorance or selfishness, it was strictly an act of MAN! Between the 1400s and 1800s nearly 80% of the indigenous population of both North and South America was eliminated through diseases and genocide. There are many documented cases where the diseases were deliberately used to commit genocide.

I will however comply with your request...YOU ARE STUPID!

D.J. ..yeah well, i think ((YOU ARE STUPID)) too >P
Back to top Go down
Ameel
One Star Member
One Star Member
Ameel

Number of posts : 24
Registration date : 2012-07-03
Age : 40
Location : Projectsavepoint@gmail.com

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptyMon Jul 30, 2012 3:30 pm

******************

*** censored now ***

******************

those who read that post, read it, those who didn't, i dont really care!


Last edited by Ameel on Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10704
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptyTue Jul 31, 2012 1:06 am

Ameel: After re-reading the ranting, I had to agree with Don.
The personal plight you describe is terrible. If anyone should understand the plight of those down-trodden it should be you. We can't erase history. What we can do is try to learn from history so it is not repeated. Unfortunately, what many learn from history is that people don't or won't learn from history.
Today history is being created. What you are experiencing will be written and become history. As a writer, you are in a good position to do that. I'm sure you won't want someone in the future to try and excuse what is happening to you. If they do, you will no doubt call them stupid.
Back to top Go down
Ameel
One Star Member
One Star Member
Ameel

Number of posts : 24
Registration date : 2012-07-03
Age : 40
Location : Projectsavepoint@gmail.com

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptyTue Jul 31, 2012 3:57 am

Abe F. March wrote:
Ameel: After re-reading the ranting, I had to agree with Don.
The personal plight you describe is terrible. If anyone should understand the plight of those down-trodden it should be you. We can't erase history. What we can do is try to learn from history so it is not repeated. Unfortunately, what many learn from history is that people don't or won't learn from history.
Today history is being created. What you are experiencing will be written and become history. As a writer, you are in a good position to do that. I'm sure you won't want someone in the future to try and excuse what is happening to you. If they do, you will no doubt call them stupid.



thanks buddy Smile

1- but no, i have no intention of putting it into a book, u only read the tip of the iceberg, and whats below it is even uglier! who the hell would want to read such a horrible thing anyways!!!


2- SEE..! how hard can it be for someone to put his opinion down, simple & polite!

i disagree with u.

a content that size had to be found someday, and the uncontrolled chain-of-events that follows the discovery just had to happen.. that part is unmistakeable.

a people that in-immune, were going to get severely damaged by mere common contact.. it was a timed biological bomb no one could stop, understand, or do anything about it.

and even if america was discovered TODAY, with our current medical
technology and "higher-humanity"..! as in-immune as its people are, and as
largely populated,
isolated, lack of real roads, as they are, i doubt it would've been any
different of what happened back then, at the very best there will still
be a multimillion casualties over several generations 'till they adopt to the rest of the world's kind of immunity (we are not insects! we can't develop our immune system in one generation! we need generation"S" to do it)...

to put it into a silly example, its like discovering a content -today- inhabited by billions of bubble-boys (u have to imagine how big was the number "multimillions" was back at the 1400)!! can anyone run a simulation here and tell me whats gonna happen at that case?! how will u save that many? with what? and what diseas out of the hundreds of diseases were u going to fight first!

we are unable to save small African villages in time! from diseases we know and already have medicines for! who will take the responsibility and say he can save a content!!! (or two! i'm not sure how south america is classified!)

oh!! and by the way, other world governments and world-large companies will still "protect their best
interests" in this -today- discovered content!! u know, like the way america protects its best interest in
gulf oil and afghani metals mines and africas diamond
mines...etc.etc.etc.!! and go to wars, intelligence wars,
disturbance...etc.etc.etc. over it!! so that Don can have a job, full stomach, a nice little fence! and wear his silly big hat as he brag about humanity!


what the spanish did, was what everyone was doing at the time -AND- still doing today, different method, dirrefnt technology, EXACT SAME THING! and that is called "REALITY" ((*which is something this form is missing!)) there was no super-evil super-greed super-villein who planned anything! it was within the normal-limits of mankind activities, and its just what everyone world-wide used to do, and still doing.

the massacres -which is the only man made events i'm willing to admit- and which everyone is crying about was not even 1% of the real damage, and bigger massacres, uglier, more disastrous happened world-wide ever since that will make the crimes committed against the indians look so small in comparing to many others... or do i need to remind u that 1.5millions who form something like 75% of the armenian people were killed in 1917 without anyone even complaining about it! like the indians, the armenians are a nation by themselves..! why should we prefere one over the other? cry for the indians and forget the armenians?! ah!!! add to that, 250.000 assyrians 33% of our population, and god only know how many syranic, chaldians, yazeedians in that same massacre!
...i dont recall the spanish delibertly killed -by weapons alone- 75% of the indians! now did they?! and i know i would've felt much, much, much better if i thought we were wiped out by a disease, an act of god, not gotten our throats slit one after the other with the whole world watching!!

the Indians were dieing by the millions every year because of diseases. not wars. it was something un-understood, unplanned, and gonna happen at mere contact, completely out of everyone's hands.

the conditions they live in today is by far faaarrr, better than so many.. at least they are not slaves -we are-, and they are not legally and religiously allowed to get killed -we are-, and indian girls dont get kidnapped and sold for sex slaves under bridges in public auctions -we are-.

wars is part of human history, and nature, nothing will ever change.. tell the naive dreamers "good luck changing that"!


3- and Don is still STUPID.
Back to top Go down
Abe F. March
Five Star Member
Five Star Member
Abe F. March

Number of posts : 10704
Registration date : 2008-01-26
Age : 80
Location : Germany

Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American EmptyTue Jul 31, 2012 6:31 am

Ameel. I think you should know that Don is part Native American (Indian). He is an accomplished writer and doesn't make bland statements. He does his research. If you willl take the time to simply Google the Native American killings for information, you may find that the numbers are far greater than you may suspect. Native American history can be found in numerous books. In those I have read, they were a simple people living off the land. They treated the land with respect as well as the animals they killed for food. How we live today and how we treat our environment is a horror story.
There were numerous holocausts throughout history. Even today there is persecution and injustice as you mentioned. There is no easy solution, however to throw up ones hands and not even try means one does not care. Awareness is the first step. Talking about it helps. The danger and hazard we find is that people will draw conclusions from limited or incomplete information. Get your facts first, then spout off if you wish.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Native American Empty
PostSubject: Re: Native American   Native American Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Native American
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Published Authors :: General :: Chatter Box-
Jump to: