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 The rope...

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Abe F. March
alice
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Domenic Pappalardo
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: The rope...   The rope... EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 8:57 am

Joseph Campbell was not only anti-God, anti the bible, he was also anti-American. He loved quoting Lenin. Here is one of his quotes from Lenin;

"When we get ready to hang the capitalists, they'll compete to sell us the rope."
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 9:24 am

What is your source, Dom?

Ann
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 9:53 am

Josepj Campbell...anti-bible...I could go on, but why? The man was another Jim Jones...people follow that type all the time.

Tom: I gather you're not terribly fond of the Bible.

Joseph: Not at all! It's the most over-advertised book in the world. It's very pretentious to claim it to be the word of God, or accept it as such and perpetuate this tribal mythology, justifying all kinds of violence to people who are not members of the tribe.

The thing I see about the Bible that's unfortunate is that it's a tribally circumscribed mythology. It deals with a certain people at a certain time. The Christians magnified it to include them. It then turns this society against all others, whereas the condition of the world today is that this particular society that's presented in the Bible isn't even the most important. This thing is like a dead weight. It's pulling us back because it belongs to an earlier period. We can't break loose and move into a modern theology.

One of the great promises of mythology is, with what social group do you identify? How about the planet? To say that the members of this particular social group are the elite of God's world is a good way to keep that group together, but look at the consequences! I think that what might be called the sanctified chauvinism of the Bible is one of the curses of the planet today.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 10:38 am

Okay, a bit of context here.

Domenic set out to help Ann with her writing. She, being a lady, did not answer an embarassing question.

He is angry and challenging her entire philosophy of life.

Just so you'd know what is happening...
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 11:19 am

I like that Cambell guy. He speaks truth.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 11:51 am

You still haven't named your source, but don't worry; I found it. I have been to that site before.

http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC12/Campbell.htm

But first, Dom, let's look at the entire sentence that you highlighted a phrase from:

Quote :
I think that what might be called the sanctified chauvinism of the Bible is one of the curses of the planet today.

The words you highlighted are not a sentence. You have taken an object of a preposition and tacked it on to the verb phrase of the whole sentence, and in doing so, have distorted the meaning.

You highlighted: "...the Bible is one of the curses of the planet today." However, Bible is not used as a subject, but as an object. The actual subject is the term, "sanctified chauvinism."

The actual meaning of the base sentence would be "...sanctified chauvinism...is one of the curses of the planet today."

And I agree with that sentence wholeheartedly, and I imagine that many others here would as well.

What is "sanctified chauvinism"?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/chauvinism

1. chauvinism - fanatical patriotism
superpatriotism, ultranationalism, jingoism nationalism, patriotism - love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it; "they rode the same wave of popular patriotism"; "British nationalism was in the air and patriotic sentiments ran high"
2. chauvinism - activity indicative of belief in the superiority of men over women; antifeminism, male chauvinism
sexism - discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of the opposite sex.

Now, knowing what I know about Joe, I would say that his use of that word combines elements of both definitions: fanatical patriarchal (a society dominated by men and male attitudes) nationalism.

sanctified - made or declared or believed to be holy; devoted to a deity or some religious ceremony or use; "a consecrated church"; "the sacred mosque"; "sacred elephants"; "sacred bread and wine"; "sanctified wine"

Put together, the phrase, as Joe uses it, refers to a group of fanatical, patriarchal, nationalist individuals who declare that they know God and know what God wants better than any other group or individual.

Personally, I can do without sanctified chauvinists myself.

Joseph Campbell does not have a problem with the Bible. Joseph Campbell has a problem with the misreading of the Bible as literal fact rather than symbolic myth, and with taking bit and pieces out of their original context, and in doing so, changing the intended meaning.

The next section after the one you misunderstood says:

Tom: There's a lot of interesting material in the Old Testament,
isn't there? For instance, it says that God created everything except the
water.




Joseph: You've put your finger on it. The wateris the
goddess. You see, what happens in the Old Testament is that the masculine
principle remains personified and the female principle is reduced to an
element. The first verse says when God created, the breath of God brooded
over the waters
. And the water is the goddess.


For anyone who might be interested, the article, Mythic Reflections, is from an online magazine called In Context: A quarterly of Humane Sustainable Culture.


The link is at the top of this post.


Ann
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptySun Aug 14, 2011 5:49 pm

Want to see the real Joseph Campbell? I can show you.
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyMon Aug 15, 2011 9:49 am

Be careful, you are treading on Ann's patron saint. She'll put you on global ignore if you keep this up because that's her M.O. when she can't win an argument. Its LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!



Don't waste your time with this woman, it's not worth your energy.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyMon Aug 15, 2011 9:53 am

zizban...how are you? I have not seen you in some time...glad you're back.
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyMon Aug 15, 2011 9:55 am

Thank you!



I'm fine. Just really busy. I hate when life gets in the way of my fun.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyMon Aug 15, 2011 4:13 pm

I've been working on my boat the last few months. Hope to have her ready for sea by the end of this year. Sailing is...10% sailing, 90% keeping the boat is condition...my fun.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 4:10 am

Sometimes it is easier for people to accept the simplistic, non-intellectual approach of emotional appeal. That's what gave churches such a strong position in the lives of their parishioners. Parishioners accepted the church view and, therefore, did not need to use their energy to question or investigate the teachings of the church. Participation in religion has only been an intellectual exercise among the clerics and philosophers. To engage everyone in the discourse was considered heretical. One interpretation is sufficient to provide those who follow without question. Questions led to ex-communication and even death.

Today, communication in a diverse world challenges singular points of view. Those challenges help believers hold their views even more strongly. After all, if what they have believed all their lives might have gaps and holes, then their beliefs may have been in vain. Better to hold on than to allow any other perspective to challenge their point of view. A thinking person will always have questions and look for real facts to help them with answers. Thinking has its disadvantages. It is generally uncomfortable because truth is often nebulous at best and shakes beliefs that have previously explained the unknown.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 4:27 am

Quote :
We're in a freefall into future. We don't know where we're going. Things are changing so fast, and always when you're going through a long tunnel, anxiety comes along. And all you have to do to transform your hell into a paradise is to turn your fall into a voluntary act. It's a very interesting shift of perspective and that's all it is... joyful participation in the sorrows and everything changes.

Joseph Campbell; Sukhavati: Place of Peace
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 7:28 am

Joseph Campbell was raised a Catholic, He was a homosexual who only came out of the closet through his writing. All of his male friends were homosexual. He lived in a homosexual community. Religion was a problem to Campbell, as it was for all other homosexuals. Campbell solved the problem by bringing back to life, and mixing parts of ancient religions to justify the homosexual life style. He is given credit for the phrase “Live your bliss.”
I do not know what makes one a homosexual. I have a cousin who from an early age fought these feelings. The problem made him feel he was outside of what is considered normal. The Catholic church could not help him. He has a strong belief in God. Alone he tried to change. He could not. Several times he was ready to take his own life. He was told about Joseph Campbell, and followed the teaching that allowed him to continue his life style without the feeling of guilt. I do not know why people are homosexuals. I know nothing in this present system that can change one. But those who find they are in this life style…do not believe it is acceptable to God, it is not. People can believe anything they want, it will not change Gods law.
Humans were the first (outside of animals) creatures to be given the gift to reproduce. The sexual organs are a holy gift. I do not know what to tell people who find their feelings trapped against Gods laws. I wish I did…but Campbell, and those like him, are not the answer. Campbell teaches to give up God, and Gods laws.
I am not a member of any religion. I believe in God, and what I can prove of his written word.

Note: This is not an attack on Ann, or anyone who finds their feelings are outside of Gods laws…it is an attack on a Satanic teaching that has been present for thousands of years.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 7:33 am

Without a documented source, there is no way to verify the validity of any claim, spoken or written.

Post your sources if you want anyone to take you seriously.

Ann
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 7:52 am

I said this was not an attack on you Ann. You are a member in good standing of the Joseph Campbell Foundation. You write for the Foundation. You have made an effort to recruit followers in this forum with your almost daily postings of his sayings. You have commented against Gods word at every turn. Your shield has always been, “Post your source.”
I will not get into a pissing contest with you. If you don’t like what I said, disprove it yourself. I really want nothing to do with you.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 10:30 am

God's word?
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 12:32 pm

Ann, I appreciate it that you and Shelagh are very consistent in posting the sources for your comments. You are both excellent at research and documenting that research.

Many of the rest of us gather up information (without resources or documentation) and just throw it out there for comment, argument or agreement.

Always, religion is a hot button because we are so emotionally involved with beliefs that explain why we are here, what our purpose might be, how we should live our lives and what happens after death. It's the whole enchilada, so to speak. Any threat to those beliefs pose a grave threat to our very concept of who we are.

I am sorry to see people label others because beliefs differ. Wherever our existence began, all humankind seems to hunger for answers to those questions and worldwide come up with different answers.

My belief, formed from my own experiences with multiple religions in multiple countries, is that the creative force that made it possible for me to experience my particular life, dwells within all humans on the face of the earth. It is a force that empowers every cell in our body, including those that make up the brain. That life force has many aspects; and I was not created to pass judgment on how another person experiences their life. I can only hold my own beliefs about how I live my life.

I believe that creative force had intentions for an organized and logical world that works in harmony with nature and the resources available to sustain life.

Lifestyles that differ from mine may make me uncomfortable, but I cannot say they are right or wrong. They are obviously right for the people living them, possibly wrong for me. I had no choice about being born a white, anglo female in the United States of America with a reasonable intelligence and no obvious disabilities. My social upbringing in a Southern Baptist church shaped my vision of right and wrong; my world travel shaped my vision of diversity as a gift like the rest of the plenty on this earth. \

If I were born in an Asian country, the child of rice farmers, I would have an entirely different point of view. If I were born with a different sexual orientation, I would also have an entirely different point of view. If I were born of a different race or religion I would have a different point of view. All of those points of view would be valid for me in those circumstances. Therefore, no religious orientation is the "one belief." There is room for many beliefs.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 1:14 pm

DK, I agree with everything you have written in your post. Generally, you write about your own perspectives, and there is no need to document you own views. Like everyone else's perspective, yours comes from a combination of personal experiences and teachings you have picked up along the way.

We all do that. My own philosophy combines my experiences with the work of teachers whose ideas have resonated with mine. They include a diverse group which includes writers like Richard Bach (see below), Paul Tillich, Tielhard de Chardin, Bryan McClaren, Carl Jung, T. S. Eliot, William Shakespeare, and Winnie the Pooh, to name a few.

Quote :
"There is no problem so big that you cannot run away from it," Shimoda said.
I replied drily, "You are quoting Snoopy the Dog, I believe."
"I quote the truth wherever I find it, Richard."
from Illusions: the Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah, by Richard Bach.
I agree with you that we need to respect the perspectives of others.

When I can remember where I came across an idea, or happen to have the source at hand, I quote it. When I am expressing my own perspective, I don't.

Everyone is entitled to their own perspective but no one is entitled to claim to know facts about a person or situation without proving they have a source for those "facts," especially when they could be considered controversial and detrimental to the individual being spoken of.

Not just me.

Ann
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 1:35 pm

To those who believe in the Bible as Gods word;

I personally believe in the Bible as Gods word. I know from matching scripture with the scrolls, what has been changed, and what has not. The first Bible, The King James, as it was written is not the same as the present day King James. Its sixty six books are not even in the same order. (Walmart was, and may still sell the book.) Neither the first, nor last King James match the scrolls…much has been changed. Many say they believe in the Bible, yet know little about it. Still, others who do not believe in the Bible, say things about it that are not true.
For anyone to believe in the scriptures without proving them out, would be foolish.
I have been asked on this forum, “Can you prove what you say?” My reply is, “Not to everyone.”
The scriptures are filled with prophesies. These were written many years before they came true. If just one had not come true, I would have turned my back on the Bible. I do not listen to prophesies from religions, nor those who teach Gods word for money. There are two main prophesies yet to be fulfilled. The Nations will destroy religion over night, and Gods war on the system of things and those who support it. If all the prophesies have come true to date, you can be assured these last two will also come true.
I have heard hundreds of religious leaders say, “All you have to do, is let Jesus into your heart, and you will be saved.” Do not believe that…it is a lie.
Here are two scriptures you can take to the bank;

John 14:6 (This scripture is saying, God will not even listen to our prayers without going through Jesus.) Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 6:44 (This scripture is saying, God chooses people, people do not choose God.)
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

I Samuel 2:6 True, (God loves everyone. Would he ever kill anyone? Yes. He did at the flood, the two cities of Sodom and Gomorrah…and will destroy most of the people on earth at his war on this system of things. When you hear the nations say, “True peace and security,” that will be the sound of the door shutting
Jehovah is a Killer, and a preserver of life.

Is there room for many beliefs? The scriptures say otherwise. If all beliefs were acceptable to God…than Gods laws would have no meaning..


Very few people today believe in Gods word. Many do not even believe there is a God. It would be very easy today for the nations to destroy religion over night, or a matter of a few days, or weeks.

In 1975 I was studying the fall of the eight world power which is in the scriptures. ( The U.S.A. is the eight world power.) It is why I have been saying…things will not get better in this country.

Do I believe everyone has the right to believe whatever they want to? What you believe, or don't belive is between you, and whatever power, thing, or person you follow. Time will tell if you made the right decision...
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The rope... Empty
PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 6:54 pm

Domenic,

What do you make of the text, "As ye have done to the least of these my brethern so ye have done unto me?"

Matthew 25:40


Is this an original or important part of the Bible?

Just curious.


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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 6:58 pm

Are you saying you don't understand it, or, is this one of you little games?
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 7:01 pm

Domenic, could you assume the best instead of the worst? I appreciate your detailed thoughts in your posts, but not what appears as the veiled and obvious attacks on other people.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 7:03 pm

I understand it. Has it been changed and is it important?

No game here.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: The rope...   The rope... EmptyTue Aug 16, 2011 7:10 pm

dkchristi wrote:
Domenic, could you assume the best instead of the worst? I appreciate your detailed thoughts in your posts, but not what appears as the veiled and obvious attacks on other people.

Veiled attacks? I make no attack on any one. Those are Gods words from the Bible. I'm sure those who do not want Gods laws, may take it as an attack...if so, they should take it up with God...he said it.


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