Mosque at 9/11 site

I personally don't care if it's built or not, but -as always - I'm LMAO at the comments.

"They won't get a single legitimate tradesman to put an hours worth of work into it. It will be built with soft concrete, rusted rebar, unfitted plumbing, and crossed wires. It will be dismantled every single night by loyal Americans. It will be vandalized daily and the illegals working on it will suffer endless accidents. The minerets will never sound. Dispicable."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100803/ap_on_re_us/us_ground_zero_mosque

Loyal Americans will not dismantle a mosque. Loyal Americans will have respect for all religions and remember that there are fanatics and nuts in every religion.

There are many good, respectable, law abiding Muslins.

Perhaps they wanted to build a Mosque to show they are not all bad. After all, they believe their religion holds God's truth, as do all other religions.

It is like the Germans making museums of the concentration camps. It helps to remind everyone that we cannot let the hatred and scapegoating continue to have such power. That makes it a good thing

Ann

OTOH, we're always told here to be aware of other cultures' sensitivities and feelings. The Dept. of Defense changed the name of "Operation Infinite Justice" to "Operation Enduring Freedom" because Muslim groups were offended; they said only Allah can dispense justice. As ridiculous as that was, it was done in deference to Muslim sensitivities. Why is that such a one-way street? Whether they have a "right" to build their mosque there or not, when there are so many people clearly offended about it, why can't they find another spot?

This country has a problem. We are contrarians--no matter the issue, a lot of opposition abounds.

Until we can unite, how on earth can we hope to accomplish anything worthwhile?

8/14/2010

I say no , let them build it elsewhere...
The world trade center should be built
as a memorial to the 3,000 lives lost by
a group of terrorists who have no regard
for human life and trust me these bastards
will try again and again till they succeed..

Cheers..Joe

I believe something positive will result from this.
Consider that one could not build a Christian church in Saudi Arabia.
Consider that building this mosque makes a strong statement that
freedom of religion still exists in America despite the efforts of many Christians who want to deny others the right to practice their faith when or where they choose.

Those who smashed the airplanes into the World Trade centers died along with everyone else they meant to die. Certainly there are others who want to follow, but they have not done so. Perhaps plans are in the works and we are working to find what they are and who is behind them.

But Joe, we can't condemn a whole group of people for the actions of a few. As a Christian I do not want to be condemned for my beliefs. My religion is filled with love for others.

God has this figured out. I'm a lowly human and am searching and will continue to do so.

Love, Carol

There are confused folks in every religion. I have had occasion to observe peaceable Muslins.

For those of you who judge all Muslims through the actions of terrorists, a few lines from Kahlil Gibran's The Prophet:

Quote :

Then, one of the judges of the city stood forth and said, speak to us of Crime and Punishment.

And he answered, saying:

... your god-self dwells not alone in your being.
Much in you is still man, and much in you is not yet man,
But a shapeless pigmy that walks asleep in the mist searching for its own awakening.
And of the man in you would I now speak.
For it is he and not your god-self nor the pigmy in the mist, that knows crime and the punishment of crime.




Oftentimes have I heard you speak of one who commits a wrong as though
he were not one of you, but a stranger unto you and an intruder upon
your world.
But I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you,
So the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.
And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree,
So the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all.
Like a procession you walk together towards your god-self.
..................
You cannot separate the just from the unjust and the good from the wicked;
...................
And if any of you would punish in the name of righteousness and lay the ax unto the evil tree, let him see to its roots;
And verily he will find the roots of the good and the bad, the fruitful
and the fruitless, all entwined together in the silent heart of the
earth.
..........................
And you who would understand justice, how shall you unless you look upon all deeds in the fullness of light?
Only then shall you know that the erect and the fallen are but one man
standing in twilight between the night of his pigmy-self and the day of
his god-self,
And that the corner-stone of the temple is not higher than the lowest stone in its foundation.

Ann

8/15/2010

As I've said before and I'll say it again, this
has nothing to do with " RELIGION!," It has
to be a memorial, I do know that not all
Muslems are bad, just like any other religion
there are fanatics in everyone of them......


Cheers..Joe

So, Joe, do we make our decisions based on that fanatical minority?

Ann

Ah, you take me back to the college years when we were such idealists and read The Prophet to each other as we searched for our own spiritual selves in light of the "new knowledge" from our philosophy and literature courses.

We thought we were special; we joined the Peace Corps and planned to change the world. We went off to Alaska after the earthquake there. We talked all night about the world we would build. We were political: I was a honorary intern in Washington, D.C. where I was supposed to learn the ropes to make a difference. Look at our world. It's our generation that is so full of hypocritical judgments while we wallow in greed and ostentatious living that rapes the planet and gives lip service to the disenfranchised and those with little voice in their own futures.

"How can you tell us to preserve our forests and remain in poverty when you destroy yours to attain your economic wealth?" Yes, a logical question in young countries seeking to follow our path.

I envy those whose certainty gives them comfort. For me, I live in an uncertain world where only my faith and desperation in times of need and my overwhelming response to the exquisite perfection of the natural world keep me believing in a power, a God, a Creator for whom all this is rational. In that belief is also the belief that we came into this world as one human race linked by our blood and our Creator. Like the "butterfly effect", all human acts have consequences, positive and negative that reach far beyond our humble selves.

8/15/2010

The world trade center should not be buildings but a memorial Park with names of the 3,000 who lost their lives,
many from what I read were from other countries, I'm saying
it has nothing to do with religion period...As I said before
their are fantatics in every religion including the Catholic
church.....

Cheers..Joe

I use the following quote in the forward of my book, To Beiurt and Back:


"Then a woman said,
Speak to us of Joy and Sorrow.
And he answered:
Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.
And the selfsame well from which
your laughter rises was oftentimes
filled with your tears."

"When you are sorrowful,
look again in your heart,
and you shall see that in truth
you are weeping for that
which has been your delight."


Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet

That is beautiful, Abe.

Too many times we look at problems with our minds, when we need to look with our hearts, look for the meaning, but then the words are difficult to find.

This has spoken the words.

Carol

So much of Gibran's work involves balance, between Joy and Sorrow, between opposing cultures, different religions.

If we want peace, we have to see it as a balance point, not as the opposite of war. When we are balanced within ourselves, we have a sense of inner peace. We feel connected to all that is, and, being connected, we want to reconcile all opposites. This is one earth, and when we honor the earth itself, we honor each other, we enjoy our diversity, and once we can do that, Peace on Earth becomes a more important goal than any individual or group agenda. We will have found our center, and will realize that everybody has a necessary place and function within this living organism.

Just me, again.

Ann

The best monument to those who died would be to rebuild the World Trade Center and put it to use. That's what was done with the Pentagon.

At the same time, find where they hide and who hides them and bring the wrath of a free people down around their ears.

Show the terrorists that we can recover from their senseless acts.

Every time you have to take off your shoes at an airport, the terrorists have won.

Every time you see the barricades and walls that prevent you from viewing the White House, the terrorists have won.

Every time access is prohibited to a public place that was previously accessible, the terrorists have won.

Don't let them win everywhere.

So, those of us, citizens and Congress alike, who would deny Muslims their 1st Amendment rights are often those same folks who praise and defend the USA Patriot Act of October, 2001. Perhaps they should read it.

SEC. 102. SENSE OF CONGRESS CONDEMNING DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ARAB AND MUSLIM AMERICANS.
(a) FINDINGS- Congress makes the following findings:

(1) Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, and Americans from South Asia play a vital role in our Nation and are entitled to nothing less than the full rights of every American.

(2) The acts of violence that have been taken against Arab and Muslim Americans since the September 11, 2001, attacks against the United States should be and are condemned by all Americans who value freedom.

(3) The concept of individual responsibility for wrongdoing is sacrosanct in American society, and applies equally to all religious, racial, and ethnic groups.

(4) When American citizens commit acts of violence against those who are, or are perceived to be, of Arab or Muslim descent, they should be punished to the full extent of the law.

(5) Muslim Americans have become so fearful of harassment that many Muslim women are changing the way they dress to avoid becoming targets.

(6) Many Arab Americans and Muslim Americans have acted heroically during the attacks on the United States, including Mohammed Salman Hamdani, a 23-year-old New Yorker of Pakistani descent, who is believed to have gone to the World Trade Center to offer rescue assistance and is now missing.

(b) SENSE OF CONGRESS- It is the sense of Congress that--

(1) the civil rights and civil liberties of all Americans, including Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, and Americans from South Asia, must be protected, and that every effort must be taken to preserve their safety;

(2) any acts of violence or discrimination against any Americans be condemned; and

(3) the Nation is called upon to recognize the patriotism of fellow citizens from all ethnic, racial, and religious backgrounds.

Thank you Al for bringing facts.

Thanks Al. We all need a reminder.
I wonder how many Americans have read or heard this.

8/16/2010

World Trade Center should be a Memorial
Period ! No Mosque ! This country is allowing
other people dictate how we should run our
own country including the Socialist Democrats
who no not what they talk about, we need to
go back to our founding father's rincipals...

Cheers..Joe

I may not have these facts quite right, but early in our country, Jewish people wanted to build a synagogue and the founding fathers were faced with the same difficulties we are faced with in this most recent incident.

Carol

I thought this country was founded on freedom of religion.