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 New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill

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Pam
zadaconnaway
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zadaconnaway
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zadaconnaway


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PostSubject: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptySat May 03, 2008 7:15 am

From Publisher's Weekly:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6556682.html?nid=2286&source=link&rid=1609285953

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6524051.html

This ruling may open doors and limit gag orders, especially for the non fiction writer. Hopefully, across the sea and in other states and countries as well.

Is this a good ruling, or do you think it could lead to dire consequences for innocent parties?
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Pam
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptySat May 03, 2008 4:44 pm

What a bizarre case Zada! To answer your question, it seems as though not having a law like that is what could lead to dire consequences.
I cannot imagine being sued by someone in another country who uses a court system in a third country to get at me. I would be inclined as they tried in this case to do something that renders it necessary for the plaintiff to sue me on my own turf first. Weird--and fascinating--that British law allows them to do it this way, although I can imagine that they too must really be flabbergasted when stuff comes through their system like this. Shocked
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Malcolm
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptySat May 03, 2008 6:42 pm

I agree Pam, it's hard to imagine being sued elsewhere and then being unable to travel because some judge in a completely different system deems my work inappropriate.

Malcolm
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptySat May 03, 2008 10:46 pm

Yes, authors need protection for free speech. But what about victims? If what the author writes is defamatory and/or simply false, should there not be redress?
It is proper for a court to decide in any dispute regardless of international boundaries. Without the possibility of redress, there is no justice.
Juristiction becomes another issue. There is often conflict with the international court of justice in the Hague. America is not a signatory and can therefore avoid being brought before the court. On the other hand, we applaud and support the efforts of that court when it involves someone else.

Perhaps a case like this can bring about a better system to deal with issues like this. There are always two sides to an issue, and since we live in an international environment, there needs to be rules that govern.
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lin
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptySun May 04, 2008 1:04 am

I always kind of frowned on venue-hopping.

But you should check out defamation laws in Mexico. It's a felony you can go to prison for.
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Malcolm
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptySun May 04, 2008 7:30 am

The problem, Abe, is that real and imagined victims pick the court they think is the most hostile to free speech and writers in the country with the most punishing libel laws. A writer sitting in Two Egg, Florida writing nonfiction can't be expected to hop on a plane with a team of lawyers and fly off to any or every country in the world to defend nuisance libel suits.

In the States, if I want to sue person X, I have to go to the state where they live. If a guy in Syria thinks I've libelled him, he needs to come here. Writers write within the arena of the laws where they live, not the shifting laws in dozens of other countries.

Malcolm
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lin
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptySun May 04, 2008 8:15 am

Well said.

It's actually a basic tenet in American law. Or was supposed to be.

Not mentioned here yet is the concept that in other countries legal findings are often openly for sale. To force application of them on people subject to our system doesn't even make sense, much less justice.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptySun May 04, 2008 9:05 am

I can't see where my comments were in disagreement with a system of justice. What I understood from what I read, was an issue of jurisdictiion. It is natural for anyone to want their case heard in an environment that would be most favorable to them.
I repeat. We live in an international environment and controls are needed that are international in nature. If an author wants his/her book promoted and distributed in foreign lands, they may fall under laws of those foreign lands. It may not be the author but the promoter that is at fault. In the case of an author making false statements, they should be held accountable for what they say and that's where an international court should have jurisdiction.
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lin
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptyMon May 05, 2008 12:34 am

Why?

If your book is judged libelous in Jordon or Korea, let them deal with it there. Seize the books, levy fines...hell, sentence you to 100 years of slave labor painting fingernails on Barbie dolls...but it's up to them to enforce it. Not the United States or local courts here.

I could probably go to court here in Mexico and get a judgement against you right now for a couple of hundred bucks. Do you think it would be fun if your local court decided to enforce it?
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptyMon May 05, 2008 8:01 am

Yes, we Americans are special. If something is not in our favor, it is wrong. Our arrogance knows no bounds.
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Pam
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptyMon May 05, 2008 8:23 am

We might not be far behind in Canada. We've just facilitated transfer of a women convicted in Mexico of an internet scam. She spent 2 years in a Meican prison, which is no picnic I understand and I wouldn't want to be there either. But, she says she didn't do it intentionally, was rooked by her boss blah de blah...and so now the Canadian prison system has to determine (and pay the money to figure it out) if they should release her in Canada, you know, where we like to look after crooks and idiots because we're nice like that. Oh my freakin' nerves! Shocked
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lin
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptyMon May 05, 2008 3:47 pm

Yes, we Americans are special. If something is not in our favor, it is wrong. Our arrogance knows no bounds.

You know, that just really, really doesn't have much to do with what I'm talking about. The idea that people have to obey the laws of the entire world, and that other countries laws are enforceable elsewhere is a peculiar one that can lead so really stupid consqequences.

Just for example, what if you go sue me in Liberia and get a judgement. Then I go down to Nicaraqua and counter-sue, and they hit you with five years in prison?



But look, if you don't agree or understand, fine. But I wish you wouldn't put words in my mouth. You should be able take your own responsibility for them.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptyMon May 05, 2008 11:14 pm

Lin,
I guess it gets back to communication. My comments suggested international law with an international court for acts that are international in nature. The international court set the standards and not the individual.
When it implies that it has to be my way, otherwise it is wrong, that becomes arrogant. I speak for fairness in all issues and this is no different.
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E. Don Harpe
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PostSubject: Re: New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill   New York Approves Libel Tourism Bill EmptyTue May 06, 2008 4:34 am

Can't help but wonder, Malcom, if you've ever been to Two Egg, Florida? Or if you know any authors from there. Curious, to say the least.

BTW, Two Egg is just a short hop down the road from Greenwood, Florida, not far from Bascom and Malone, and he nearest larger town is Marianna. When I still worked in Marianna at the call center, I had a couple of girls from Two Egg working for me. My wife and I used to drive one of them home sometimes when her ride failed to show up at the end of her shift. For those who don't know, in September of 2004 a very strong tornado hit Marianna and a lot of that part of Jackson County, and I recall several people wondering if the storm was going to scramble Two Egg.
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