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Shelagh
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:54 pm

Abe F. March wrote:
Interesting Shelagh.  The last paragraph on the website you provided states: "The migrants trying to get to Europe right now are not about to rise up in arms, and Europe is not—thankfully—the Roman empire. But this story shows well that migration has always and will always be a part of our world. There are two ways to deal with refugees: one is to promote dialogue, and inclusion; the other is to be unwelcoming and uncaring. The second has led to disaster before—and in one way or another, is sure to do so again.
It also states: "The recipe that kept the empire safe from attack from other populations was simple: allow them into the empire and make them Roman." In other words: when in Rome, do as the Romans.

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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:37 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:36 am

If you are in a hole, Abe, stop digging.

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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:27 am

I'll stop.  I just remembered that I am considered clueless.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:33 am

Laughing

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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:17 pm

1.  Each person perceives the news through their own world view.  That view shapes their ability to take in information, much less evaluate its relevance and credibility.

2.  News today is supported financially by ratings that lead to purchase of advertised goods.  Media is owned by people with strong political points of view that impact the news reported.

3.  Emotional investment affects our world view.  So does our own personal stake, our experience, our education, the people we associate with and our own hopes and dreams realized or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:49 pm

Why is  it ?  It appears  the young people support  the Republicans, then when they get  old and wise, they turn to the Democrats..
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:28 pm

You said it clearly "old and wise."
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:32 pm

2/16

           It amazes me how the Democrats are almost suicidal over their loss !
           Get over it , you don't like it , leave the country with the so called
           celebrities like Streisand , Goldberg, etc. ....

                                               Cheers.........Joe .... tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:17 pm

"A recent Gallup poll shows that faith in the media is at an all time low. Gallup says Republicans’ faith in media plummeted from 32% to 14% last September, influenced by the more positive media coverage of Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump."

http://ijr.com/2017/02/805170-after-trump-tells-reporters-the-public-doesnt-believe-you-anymore-cbs-reporter-admits-hes-right/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=ods&utm_term=ijamerica

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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:59 pm

People are more comfortable with the status quo and don't like to feel it threatened.  I remember when I taught at the university on contract how the teachers gave the PhD candidates so much trouble to make it difficult for them to join the "club." 

While comfort and exclusivity to claim our entitlements as a privileged group may be natural, we have the intelligence to look at the history of the world and realize we are all immigrants enriched by the diversity of our roots, the intermarriage of strong and healthy races, and the creative and innovative energy that differences can bring.  Yet, in most cases, while immigrants were welcomed to do the work no one else wanted to do or fill a labor gap - acceptance as equals was hard won or not at all.

Society evolves.  It is possible to evolve to a more compassionate and generous society that wishes to share our resources rather than hoard them, sell them for greedy profiteering. or quarrel over them.  Generosity often involves reducing our own measure to provide a measure to another.

I remember visiting my stepmom who I later learned did not have sufficient income for her medicine and food.  I saw her cupboards were bare and she had a box of canned goods at the door.  "What is this box for?" I asked her.  "This is for the food drive at church to help those with so little.  After all, I have all I need."  She refilled her food stock with slim fast, the only meals she could afford until I made that discovery and her grandchildren helped improve her situation.  She with so little cared about those with less. Often, those with so much part with so little to help those less fortunate.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:28 am

Good post DK.  I was especially drawn to your comment about your step mom who, with little for herself, felt the need to give to those with even less.  I believe that gesture is more common than many realize.  My oldest brother who lives in Florida with his medical and financial problems continues to say:  “There are others who have it worse than me.”  I recall the days of my youth where neighbor helped neighbor.  Even with the little they had, they were willing to share with others.  It was a time before money became God.  Looking back and understanding the “why” of things can be enlightening.  Church pastors were not rich.  I recall my parents putting together a package with food to take with them to church for the pastor.  Sometimes the tithes were in the form of produce.  Our family doctor, who made house calls, didn’t demand payment.  Often he was paid in farm products (eggs, chickens, vegetables, baked goods, etc.).  When he had more than he could use, he gave it away to others in need.  It was a different mind-set in those days and that, I believe, is part of the problem.  Our thinking changed with the times and “self” became more dominant.  Business owners were not profit-driven as most were private enterprises.  They believed:  “You take care of your employees and they will take care of you.”  When a business was in trouble, employees continued to work even without pay to help the company survive.  My deceased brother-in-law owned a machine shop.  In bad times, he did his best not to layoff his employees and often borrowed money, when needed, to keep them on the payroll.  They were loyal and trusted employees.  Bankers would lend money without security to long-standing customers knowing that they were honest and would repay when they could. 
So what happened?  I wish I knew the answer to that.  Was it the capitalistic system?  Was it public corporations that compelled them to make a profit for the shareholders?  Was it a change in the mind-set of the people?  If so, what caused that change? 
We can’t revert to the past; however the past can help us understand the cause of present-day problems.  Leaders who had meager beginnings are more likely to consider the needs of the citizens. 
Today is “Presidents Day” in the US.  Demonstrations “He is not my President” are planned.  It is not just the US, but also many areas in the world with demonstrations against the Trump and that includes the UK.  Trump calls the media “Fake News” while at the same time making fake news as he did when he made a false statement about Sweden in a Florida rally.  Many regard him as a “Fake President’ who is more concerned about himself than those he was elected to represent.  It is a problem to ascertain truth from lies.  Respect must be earned, not demanded.  Having said this, I still believe that with every adversity there is a benefit.  He is bringing people together in opposition to his policies.  He is causing many to do more “fact checking” rather than believing what he says or even what the media reports or fails to report.  Education may get a boost with more critical thinking.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:30 am

On February 20th, the Authors Guild released the following statement denouncing President Trump's “declaration of war” on the press. Since then, the situation has only worsened: On February 24th, White House press secretary Sean Spicer prevented reporters from CNN, The New York Times, Politico, the Los Angeles Times, and BuzzFeed from attending a press briefing. This was an assault on the free flow of information, and it cannot be countenanced. Spicer seems to have forgotten one of the fundamental principles of democracy, as he expressed back in December when he said, “I think we have a respect for the press when it comes to government. That is something you can’t ban. . . . I think that’s what makes democracy a democracy versus a dictatorship.”
Please share this statement as you see fit.
We Are Not the People’s Enemies
First President Trump complained that “the media” was biased against him. “Dishonest.” Presidents have made such complaints before, in moments of weakness and self-pity.
Then he labeled the media as “the opposition party.”
Now he has declared journalists to be “the enemy of the American People.”
We at the Authors Guild hear that as a declaration of war. We know our history. Enemy of the People is a phrase long favored by authoritarians and tyrants. The “correct Russian term,” Gary Shteyngart points out, is врагнарода, vrag naroda. Long before Lenin and Stalin used it, Robespierre inaugurated the Reign of Terror by declaring that the Revolutionary Government “owes nothing to the Enemies of the People but death.”
An earlier president, John F. Kennedy—when he was taking a beating in the press after the Bay of Pigs fiasco—was asked if he resented the media. He said this:
“It is never pleasant to be reading things that are not agreeable news, but I would say that it is an invaluable arm of the presidency, as a check, really, on what is going on in the administration … I would think that Mr. Khrushchev operating a totalitarian system, which has many advantages as far as being able to move in secret, and all the rest—there is a terrific disadvantage in not having the abrasive quality of the press applied to you daily …Even though we never like it, and even though we wish they didn’t write it, and even though we disapprove, there isn’t any doubt that we could not do the job at all in a free society without a very, very active press.”
President Kennedy was a member of the Authors Guild. So are many of the journalists now covering the Trump presidency, the historians who will soon reflect upon it, and the novelists who challenge us with their imaginative—and, yes, subversive—visions.
The administration is now said to be preparing the elimination of the National Endowments for the Arts and the Humanities under the false guise of budgetary necessity. We understand this, too, to be part of an attack on the free expression of diverse views.
The Authors Guild serves writers as a nonpartisan advocate. Our members represent a broad spectrum of social and political views. But blanket attacks on writers and journalists, as a class, are not a partisan issue; they are attacks on democracy itself. And, as advocates for authors and the first amendment rights of writers, we cannot let these attacks go unanswered.
We are not the people’s enemies. We are the eyes and ears of the people. And we are the people’s memory.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:35 am

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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:17 am

I get it now.  I have always loved science fiction.  In fact, I taught science fiction as part of literature and the purists weren't thrilled.  I explained that enjoyment of science fiction required first that the reader believe at least one "big lie."  Once that "big Lie" was accepted, everything else made since.  For instance, in Star Trek, the big lie is that they can travel from one planet to another with the famous "warp drive." 

President Trump and Steve Bannon operate on the science fiction "big lie" system.  Every day President Trump presents another "big lie" for the press to run after and for his base of believers to add to their collection of big lie beliefs. One of the most notorious ones was that President Obama was not born in the United States.  Once those who wanted that to be true grabbed it, it took on a life of its own - just as Captain Kirk continues to travel at Warp speed, so does President Trump continue to move through his own alternative, science fiction engineered, universe.

Then he continued until this very day sending out more big lies such as the recent accusation that President obama wired Trump's office. 

So, the followers of Trump are like me and my passion for science fiction.  They hear what they want to hear in order to enjoy the show.  Unfortunately, this show is real and real people are harmed.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:17 pm

Many still want to see Con-Don's tax returns.  His refusal to show them raises more questions about his proclaimed wealth.  Who are his creditors?  Did he in fact pay any taxes?  What is he trying to hide?
Having his children run his business to avoid a conflict of interest is ludicrous.  Does anyone believe that he doesn't know what they are doing?  Reversing controls Obama put in place to protect the environment is another reckless act.  I didn't and don't support Hillalry, but she was smart enough to be concerned about a reckless person being in control of the nuclear codes.  There are so many lies Trump told (there are lists of them) that it is difficult to ascertain when or if he tells the truth. 
There is always a benefit with adversity.  The benefit will become clear at the next election much to the chagrin of entrenched politicians. In the meanwhile, we can only hope that we can avoid another senseless war.

Based on current events, I am considering writing another book.  The working title: 

“When the poor become rich and the rich become poor.”  The scenario is based on the devastation to our environment and/or a nuclear holocaust.  Farmers and those who are capable of growing food will become rich while the rich won't be able to sustain their lives when their money runs out, or when people refuse to sell to them. 

I would welcime a co-author should I decide to write this novel.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:06 pm

3/4

        I see the Left Wing Liberals Mind's are totally gone, poor Abe & DK
  they not know their leftist world is gone forever........


                                            Cheers.......Joe  ...
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:33 pm

The release of President Trump's taxes would probably put an end to speculation regarding his involvement with the Russian oligarchs and end the wasted time in investigations to get at the truth.  Is there anyone who doubts that President Trump's circle (Bannon, Smith, Sessions, Flynn, Etc.) were in consistent contact with Russian representatives regarding his prospects as president and the potential that he might reduce sanctions?  Follow the money, honey.  Trump's debts (that would be fully illustrated in his tax returns) and the means to pay them are certainly linked to his dealings with Russia.

The whole subterfuge reminds me of the advice for married couples when the man has an affair:  Never tell the truth.  So long as there is doubt, there is room to negotiate. It's possible to convince the other partner that it's their imagination, (conspiracy, sour grapes). Once the affair is admitted and clearly visible in detail in the mind's eye, the bastard is sunk.

However, returning to the science fiction metaphor, the big lie is that this is all sour grapes on the part of democrats who lost the election.  If you believe that "big lie" then you don't care about President Trump's Russian connections or the fact that his cronies are financially benefiting from the gross profits to be made at the expense of our environment and the fact that our representative, democratic checks and balances are being systematically overrun.

Ah - another big lie:  all journalists are corrupt and write lies.  I'll save that one.  It's not true either.  Journalism is tainted for certain, but there are still honest, hardworking journalists working the world over in dangerous situations to bring truth to the surface.  One simply needs to seek truth instead of hanging out at the tainted news outlets run by profit and owner bias instead of a thirst for the truth.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:34 am

Donald Trump certainly plays up to the press. A television report or a news item on the 'net, which he knows will make headlines if he tweets about it, is a great source of deflection. The press fall for it every time.

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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:21 am

Thanks DK.  Shelagh also makes a good point.  Deflection is at play and is a tactic used often.
Many on FB are calling for Trump's tax returns, but I doubt he will show them.  If he had nothing to hide he would produce them.  My guess is that it may show his indebtedness not only to Russia, but also with domestic matters and that he is not as rich as he claims.  More importantly it may show how little, if any, tax he paid. 

I think he made a big mistake attacking the press.  They are now making it a point to reveal the lies he tells in his speeches and with his Tweets.  Repeating unchallenged lies leads people to believe them and the press is an important medium to expose the lies.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternative Facts   Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:09 am

There are a significant number of people who do not wish to believe they made the wrong choice in voting for President Trump.  They will grab at any lie that keeps their choice correct in their minds.  To me, that is as much a danger to the nation as the incompetence of the President.  However, only Donald Trump can take us into a war on a Saturday morning when his daughter and son in law are not with him to watch over his tweets and his actions.

We ought not to be talking about President Trump anyway.  He is merely the front for Bannon who couldn't get himself elected but used Trump's celebrity to create a puppet.  This too is terrifying.  The newest conspiracy theory from Saturday morning may turn on Bannon - the source of the idea.

The beginning of the immense divide in this country goes to your Cherokee story - the feeding of the alt right by talk radio and Fox.  Note that even the greats on FOX jump ship when it gets to deep even for them.
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