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 Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?

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alice
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PostSubject: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:08 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:07 pm

I voted to leave, Alice. The UK needs a fresh start. The rich and comfortably off wanted to stay for cheap European holidays, cheap booze and ease of movement across Europe. The poor feel neglected and ignored as their communities change beyond recognition with the flood of immigrant populations. The NHS is stretched to breaking point treating foreigners who arrive for free treatment and then return to their home countries. 

The remain camp have reacted badly to losing because of their personal discomfort; they are not concerned with the vast majority of poor people whose lives have become intolerable. It must have seemed like a dream for millions of people to finally have the chance to bring about change that would affect their lives for once, instead of the lives of the privileged.

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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:41 pm

6/24

                      Shelagh..

                                 " Hail to the Brisitsh people , great job done."...

                                  The USA is next !....................

I heard on the news two other European countries want to leave the EU..


                                          Cheers...........Joe................................
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:26 pm

Immediate reaction is knee-jerk at best.  The perspectives for those sitting on the outside are different.  Long-term effects of this change affect the young to a larger degree than for those who are older.  One can expect turmoil in the short-term, especially in the financial sector.  Employee concerns are already beginning to surface.  In the EU, Europeans could work in any country without restriction or work permits and receive benefits.  Brits working in other countries will certainly be affected.  They may be required to get a work permit and there is no assurance that a permit will be forthcoming. 

Let's hope it works out for the benefit of the common citizen.  All decisions we make have consequences.
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:58 am

I must admit to very little knowledge about the EU except that it was quite a romantic notion that came to pass, intended to benefit all with a smoother system that resembled the ease with which the U.S. citizens and commerce move from state to state (even so with many exceptions).

However, it was a grand undertaking with so many different cultures and histories and economies. Ours isn't perfect either.  The south never recouped from its attempt to leave the union and remains poor compared to other states and wealth is concentrated in certain states.  Licenses for professions are a nightmare from state to state as well as incorporating businesses - and more.

Thus, even our smooth United States are not perfectly united with many cultural experiences, goals and history  in common  including one constitution - and except for the Civil War, a common currency.

If, in fact, the British lower economic citizens benefit, the vote can be called a win for democracy. If the global fallouts negative issues do not improve the lot of the common sole, then it was an emotional cry for a nationalism that might not be possible to regain - for any of the nations, including the U.S., that are trying to bring back the pure races of old and shed today's migrant families and the changes they bring, culturally, economically, spiritually and more.

One thing for certain.  Everything changes and for some it's good and for others a disaster - just as rain floods one community and feeds crop to grow in another.  The older I get the more I admire Shakespeare's lines - something like all the world's a stage and we are but players upon it.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:01 am

I like your analogy, DK.  The idea for a United Europe was good; however making it work in mixed cultures and languages was not so simple.  Compromise was needed to make it work.  While some made adjustments, others didn't or did so reluctantly.  The media is going nuts with a new subject to bleed.  Interviews from UK citizens as well as citizens from other countries are mixed.  It is much like breaking up a family.  Taking sides is a normal. There are some in the UK with second thoughts that are pushing for another vote.  Cameron's decision to step down is seen by some in the media as part of a scheme to make this happen.  There may be some credibility in that scenario.  To relinquish power so easily there may be some ulterior motive.  The financial impact has already been felt.  The money people may have bet on the anticipated result.
While many say: "It is not my/our problem" and are reluctant to voice an opinion, there is still angst that the fallout will affect them in a negative way. 
Trump opened his big mouth while in Scotland and made an ass of himself - again.  Perhaps his ignorance will be his downfall, at least one can hope.  We have experienced both intelligent and self-serving leaders.  The intelligent ones sought peace while the others sought financial gain and/or power.  Those who sought peace were labelled as weak.  The war-like were hailed as strong since the “tough guy” mentality has appeal.  Politicians play the tough-guy card to the ignorant.  Throw in a few “God words” and they win.
My concern is for the common man who wants to make a decent wage and enjoy life with a sense of security both financially and physically.
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:34 am

6/26

               Hail England...God Bless The Queen......

               The USA is next.......

                Germany is next.. Goodbye Merkel

                The people have had enough of politicians telling them what to do and always
                 lying about it.....And Abe stop the bull about Trump , Hillary is the biggest
                 Fraud that was ever created, Were waiting for her indictment and arrest !!

                                                             Cheers........Joe..........
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:53 am

  That's for Trump.
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:43 am

As I said before other countries will follow, Merkel will be the last is a fool if she doesn't follow, right now the USA will be in a revolution to get rid of it's corrupt politicians, that includes Hillary and her gang and all the corrupt people in the Obama Adm. ............Cheers..........Joe....
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:34 am

Joe, it would be great if one could solve problems with a single act.  Speculation is running wild concerning what may happen or who may follow.  Opinions are just that - opinions.  There is nothing wrong in expressing an opinion, but it doesn't mean it is the only valid one.  I don't happen to agree that the breakup of the EU is a good thing nor is it a forgone conclusion.  The Scots are an example of wanting to stay in the EU even if the UK is out. 
While all the rhetoric and controversy over the "In" or "Out", people are living and others dying.
An old schoolmate of my wife lost her husband a number of years ago.  They had one child, a boy.  His mother suffered a stroke and he was taking care of her.  On Sunday night she was watching a Fussball (soccer) game on TV with her son.  He was a fussball enthusiast and never missed a game.  At half-time she went to bed.  She awoke in the middle of the night to use the toilet and noticed that the lights and the TV were still on.  She went into her son's bedroom and found him lying there with the TV remote still in his hand, dead.  She called the emergency service.  They tried to revive him, but it was too late - his feet were already cold.  The Doctor said that he died without any pain.  He was 54 years old - my son's age.  They were good friends and talked much about fussball. 

I’m still trying to makes sense of it, but can’t.  There are more people reaching the age of 100 and at the same time more young people in their 50’s dying.  I guess when our time is up it doesn’t matter where we are or what we are doing. Getting all bent out of shape over politics and causing bad feelings just doesn't make much sense.  We are alive.  Although we don't know how much time we have left, let's make it enjoyable. 
In case you don't know, I appreciate the friendship of all on this forum and the feeling of love often expressed. 
Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:46 am

Yes, to be able to chat about different ideas with friends across the globe was such a special part of this forum.  Such that I often forget the search bots pick up some of our posts and spread them across the Internet.  Mostly, I don't care anymore.

Relationships are the most important.  I spent yesterday with two friends and two friends of theirs.  We had a grand day driving to Pine Island for mangos (not yet ripe) and dining at a Peruvian restaurant hidden in an old shopping center then walking through the food forest at the university where they grow everything edible.  We mostly talked about how much student cheat today - not a happy topic - but laughed often too.

In reality, I'm nursing a dislocated shoulder that hurts a lot - and so does the rest of the body that took a flying leap as they say.  

I'm not going to discard friendly discourse for a political point though I am passionate about keeping religious beliefs out of legislation and allowing women to make their own health decisions.  I am also passionate about many of Bernie Sanders' platform pieces though I know he couldn't get elected because he is a stated socialist and that scares lots of people so afraid taxes will rob them of what they have, even if they have $billions.
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:08 am

Donald Trump once said per CNN, "
[size=54]Trump: I could 'shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters'[/size]
In my book, that explains his following.  They just don't care about who he is or what he stands for.  Period.  He's judged by a different yardstick because he is a celebrity of showy wealth who says and does what he wants - and a lot of people would like that same privilege.  Unfortunately for them, it does not rub off.  Trump inherited it and used whatever means at his disposal to keep it, including paying whoever it took and not paying his creditors at least four times and others at 80% because he didn't like their work.  And that's what his followers admire -
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:43 am

were just a flossom in the sea, I saw a great interview yesterday with Nigel Farage UK the reporter was not letting him answer the questions all she did was put her opinion in and he said Madam you don't know the United Kingdom, so just let me answer the questions and he talked and gave great history and answers of the UK..In the USA politicians have this idea that the American Public is brain dead that we don't know what their up to but yes we do and finally they maybe voted out of office. Sorry about your friends son, loosing a child at an early age is horrible....

Cheers.....Joe
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:52 am

“With every adversity, there is a benefit”.  I believe that and even if it is a perceived adversity.
The Brexit that the world is discussing are for some a disaster while to others it is seen as a victory.  Most of us are observers and try to see the whole picture.  Even taking in the whole picture, there are gaps that are not easily explained, but affect many.
As previously expressed, the idea of the EU was a good one.  A common market with common rules.  With hindsight, one problem was that those who signed on with the EU were allowed exceptions.  The exception to retain ones own currency is one example.  It meant that a country was in, but not with both feet.  Fence sitting can’t work in any situation.
In the US there are States Rights and those rights were subject to much debate with the fear of giving the US (central) government too much power.
The central government of the EU is located in Brussels.  It started out with good intentions and regulated the important things that affected standardization of commerce as well as employment and employee benefits.  Then they got too involved in things that were irrelevant or just plain stupid.  Example that I’ll call the cookie debacle:  The central government in Brussels determined how much if any butter should be used by bakers making cookies.  Ridiculous insignificant things began creeping in.  They somehow forgot that there are differences in cultures within the EU and that a country should have basic rights to make rules that apply to their own country. 
The news is full of debate about BREXIT.  An elderly British couple who retired to Spain, bought a home and are enjoying their life there expressed their concern that they may lose their healthcare and be forced to leave Spain.  Employees are concerned that they will no longer be protected by the rules governing employment within the EU.  Example:  If one is to be fired (let go) there are rules of fairness that apply and are a concern for British employees working in other countries.  If their employer wants to downsize and decides to fire his British employee(s), he can claim that the employee now requires a “Work Permit”.  It is evident that a work permit can be conveniently denied.
 
Bringing attention to the negatives of the EU occurred with BREXIT.  I see this as an opportunity to correct mistakes and preserve the ideals of the Union.  Citizens of Germany would prefer their old strong currency, the Deutsche Mark.  When the Euro was introduced the value based on the currency of individual countries varied. It was not a one-to-one conversion.  I personally witnessed some restaurants that did not change the amount of charge for food items, but just changed the currency sign on their menu from DM to Euro.  In some cases it meant that the prices were doubled.  People continued to calculate the value of an item based on the old currency value.  When I shopped in France the receipt showed the value in French Francs on the Euro receipt.  The consumer was not fooled.  Comments about the Euro as a common currency never ceased.  The UK was used as an example.  “If they can keep their currency, why not us”?  Fairness was and is an issue.  Conditions should be the same for all EU members.  Trying to negotiate a better deal may seem good for the short-term, but it can’t work in the long term. 
 
The decision by the UK should be their concern, unfortunately with the media discussing it non-stop, citizens of many countries have formed opinions.  I suspect there will be a backlash that will affect business in various forms.  Opinions are often formed based on personal concerns.  I have strong opinions about the constant threat to the preservation of my Social Security and speak out against those in government who threaten it.
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:20 am

We cannot stand still. Change is inevitable. Without change, we would still be ruled by the Romans. As it is, the Romans left Britain in the middle of the fifth century. Since then, more invaders arrived from Scandinavia, Germany, Saxony and France. Eventually, everyone left and the islands ruled themselves. Dissatisfied with the monarchy, Charles l was beheaded and Cromwell set up a republic with an elected parliament. Then the monarchy was reinstated without replacing democracy. 

Scotland united with England in 1707, and the Republic of Ireland was established in 1922. In 1973, the UK joined the EEC (Economic European Community), which evolved into the EU. In 2016, the UK left the EU and set out on the next stage of the many changes that have taken place over the centuries. New beginnings are always problematic, but as Abe says, with every adversity there is a benefit.

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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:34 pm

7/1

         I read where the Pres. , the Canadian PM and the Pres. of Mexico are having a secret meeting in Canada, I just hope their not plotting  like someone else did I think Pres. Bush and I've read where their
are many politicians in this country who would love to see this happen, create a one North America  to
create USA with Mexico, Canada and have one currency, one Govt. Believe you me their would be a major revolution in the streets , Americans  would never stand for politicians pulling this off...

                                                            Cheers......Joe.......
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:11 pm

That would be terrible, Joe.  It would mess up a safe haven from a Trump Presidency.
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:15 am

The effects of Brexit are beginning to be felt.  More than 2,000 Brits living in Germany have applied for German citizenship.  An equal number have requested information on the procedure to apply for citizenship.  I find it curious that Brits would choose Germany over any other European country since the demonization of Germany by many Brits since the war has not ceased.  Even though there are good relations between the British government (including the Royal family) and Germany, many British citizens continue resenting anything German.  It is curious that Brits who live and work in Germany don’t feel the same way and actually like the country and the people. 
 
A new British Prime Minister is about to be announced.  It will be interesting to see how she performs.  Since Britain has the experience of a woman as Prime Minister, that part of the change shouldn’t be a problem.  Whether the UK is part of the EU or not, Britain is still in Europe and will be dealing with other EU countries.  We can only hope that resentment for her action to leave won’t be a hindrance to relationships.
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:12 am

Angela Merkel has met her match in Theresa May, Abe.

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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:39 am

Things are changing.  With more Brits in Germany, I suspect one will hear the English language spoken more often.  Yesterday I was at the hospital for a CT (MRI); the results were not good (I won’t go into that).  Afterwards I sat with my wife for a coffee and something to eat since I couldn’t eat prior to the procedure.  A man heard us talking and came over to our table.  He asked where I was from since he detected a dialect.  I said that I was an American living in Germany.  He extended his hand and said, “I’m a Texan living in Germany.  How long have you been here?”  I said I was here since 2001.  He said: “I’ve been here for 30 years.” I asked him if he intended to return to the States and he said “No”.  We briefly discussed the political campaign.  Without expressing my opinion, he said:  “If Trump is elected it will be the end of America. I wouldn’t want to live in an America with an idiot like that as President”. 
It is not just ex-patriots that hold that view, but the same opinion is expressed by other Europeans concerning the future of America.  I expect that some, not all, will make the decision to emigrate to another country if Trump becomes President.  The country of choice so far seems to be Canada.  I would advise those considering such a move to check out the procedures they need to follow now and not wait for the last minute.  When I meet a Brit that made the decision to become a German citizen, I will ask him/her why.  I don’t want to assume.
As for the British PM, May, I have no knowledge of her nor would I speculate what might happen.  As for Merkel, she is a smart woman and holds a Doctorate degree.  She has made some blunders, and that is not unusual.  I’m not defending her and have no reason to do so.  Making a comparison between May and Merkel at this early stage is not wise.  Actions, not capability will determine how effective they will be.
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:20 pm

Trump is looking for a Vice President that will do his job for him, suggesting he's introducing a chief operating officer concept from business.  He does not want the job.  He just wants the power and probably First Lady for his trophy wife like Mitt Romney wanted.  At least Mitt Romney had some class. Trump will pass the work of the presidency itself on to whoever he can and make sure he isn't tarnished by any of it.  Just think, he will then have Secret Service to protect him for life among the many perks after the presidency.  He won't care if he is a good or bad president since he feels no loyalty to anyone or anything but himself.  It's a pity if he wins and a sad commentary on the educational level of U.S. citizens and more.

As for England, she's survived worse as Shelagh would say.  I think hunger for a change has brought one greater than needed, but time will tell.  

At least in England, the "presidency" has the Monarchy to do all the nice nice diplomacy and the prime minister to do the nitty gritty and take the heat.  In the U.S. it all falls to the President.
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:41 pm

The tories are getting on with the business of governing the country. Meanwhile the labour party is in meltdown.

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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:42 pm

7/13

           Thank God the extreme left is dying out, soon this country will have gotten rid
of people in power who would love to see this country destroyed ! This country needs
to be brought  back to what it used to be, if Hillary is in power she'll give everything
away and now the Pres. has warned border guards not to stop anyone from coming
in ! Soon were going to be another Venezuela , I'll have to go to England and become
British ! I am after all part English......As for other countries in Europe if they don't do
something soon they'll sink and oh I read Merkel maybe on her way out of office thank
God she screwed the German people but good ! Long Live England.......

                                     Cheers........Joe........
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:58 pm

Joe, on several posts you indicate your dislike for Germany's Chancellorin Angela Merkel.  What did she do that caused your dislike and why is it important to you?
 
I find fault with her for a single act and that was to welcome the refugees and migrants to Europe (Germany in particular) without consulting other members of the EU before extending that welcome. Some saw her actions as benevolent and humanitarian while others saw it as reckless/irresponsible.  That is the blunder I referenced in an earlier post.  Her actions killed no one and saved many.  The same cannot be said for irresponsible acts by leaders such as with GWB who ignored the advice of his military and foreign advisors and made a unilateral decision to invade Iraq that cost hundreds of thousands of lives.  It also created many refugees
So my question remains.  What is so bad about Merkel?
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PostSubject: Re: Shelagh, what do you think of the BREXIT decision ?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:12 pm

7/14

            My same sentiment  for you, why do you care who becomes Pres.? 65% of the public
don't trust Hillary, I've known about her for 30 years all the crime she got away with but wait
there's still The Clinton Foundation raking in millions from foreign govts. !!!  The Foundation will
be her key to go to jail....

                                                    Cheers....Joe....
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