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 Agree Or Dis-Agree Pres. Obama, Guns, NRA I Have

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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Agree Or Dis-Agree Pres. Obama, Guns, NRA I Have    Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:27 pm

I think the laws of this land men wrote in 1775, are not for our time. They were good for a long time, but my feelings are they don't work in the world of 2015. The laws we have today won't work 200 years from today. I think it is time we changed. I understand many good people have guns, and no, I don't think they should lose the right to have them...I would rather see the bad guy pay for having guns. You want to save lives? it's simple...you have to take life to save life. Since we can't tell who is a nut job, nut jobs can buy guns.
In Italy, before a person can get a drivers license, they first get a license for a motor bike. I think the same would do for guns, The first gun should be a single shot...after a time, or age, a two shooter. Then a six shooter. If a person is found with a gun they should not have, death. No appeals. A public death in the area they live.
Lose of freedom? Having to live as we do is not freedom. Freedom has become a word that supports, non-freedom for good people, and freedom for bad people...we should think on this term freedom...it is out of step with our time.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Agree Or Dis-Agree Pres. Obama, Guns, NRA I Have    Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:08 am

Charlie said: „Find a way to change the culture. Find a way to promote love. Find a way to promote family…" 
I believe Charlie is right.  I don't agree with Domenic who said: "If a person is found with a gun they should not have, death. No appeals. A public death in the area they live." 
An eye for an eye or public killing is archaic.  There is something wrong with a culture that lives in fear and seeks revenge.  Living in fear is not living.  Work on the cause of the fear.  If the police don't do their job, work on the police to restore faith in them.  If you can't rely on them for protection, why have them? 
I said it before and I'll say it again.  Evaluate what other countries do or have done to reduce crime.  There are countries that have been around much longer than America and we should not be so arrogant as to dismiss their experience and what is working for them.  Many of the countries have provisions for the use of guns that cover "hunting and sport".  Self-protection is not needed.  Why?  Do some investigating.  Google it.  Information is available.  Many refer to Switzerland saying that everyone has a gun.  Switzerland does not have a standing army.  Google gun ownership in Switzerland and learn first hand about it. 
I posted a website on FB yesterday concerning this. If one really wants to know something, they will do their own research.  Relying on the news or others who may try and distort information is not reliable.  Ask questions and then ask questions about the answers to those questions.  There is too much propaganda and people with an agenda to rely on any one source.
One one hand we say that what worked in the past doesn’t work in today’s world.  If that is true, they why do so many want the “Wild West” system of everyone carrying guns?
"Seek and ye shall find" is meaningful in many facets of life.  Some won't ask questions fearing that it will show them to be inept.  The person who asks the most questions does the most learning.  Having a "know it all" attitude can mean that you have stopped learning. 
Mahatma Gandhi said:  “Live as if you were to die tomorrow.  Learn as if you were to live forever.” 
I could say that "America has the most deaths from firearms than any country on earth" and that would be rejected outright.  Google it.  Usually there is more than one reference to any question you use in a search and they don't always agree.
You know by now that I support gun control.  I have my reasons and those reasons are not easily explained.  Some are based on experience and some are with the experience of people that I trust.  Reading is enlightening.  History reveals much.  Applying historical methods, especially if ancient for today's problems may require some tweaking, but I believe there is a solution to every problem.  There is seldom a simple solution.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Agree Or Dis-Agree Pres. Obama, Guns, NRA I Have    Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:31 am

Charlie Moore wrote:
I try to think an appropriate response that appeases the issue. I'm not really sure that is possible. So I'll give what I'll call an honest response. Weapons do bad things. Weapons do good things. I don't own any firearms, neither rifles or pistols, but my grandfather, whom I had ultimate respect for, was an avid collector. At one point owning over 100 rifles. Did he need that many? Probably not. Grandpa was also an avid hunter. Many deer, elk, bear, moose, cougar, sheep, antelope did he kill. He taught all of us children and grandchildren to respect firearms and use them for the intended purpose.

People want guns because of an established culture. It really is as simple as that. The constitution is mentioned when legality is threatened, but perhaps the interpretation is challenged. When the amendment isn't clearly defined perhaps it should be updated. Clarified. Made current. Perhaps this could apply to other amendments as well (just saying.) When people die in dramatic fashion (shooting massacres) something has to be blamed. What can be done? I don't have a logical sensible prudent answer that will appease everyone. So let me suggest this. Bury all firearms. Bury them deep. Bury all knives, hatchets and other sharp objects. Bury them deep. Bury all clubs, baseball bats and other things you can swing. Bury them deep. When everything is buried what will happen. People will clench their fists and fight. Why? Culture. It's embedded in us. Find a way to change the culture. Find a way to promote love. Find a way to promote family. Find a way to promote God. Get everyone on board. Problem solved.


Charlie,

I am glad to you posted your point of view. Your religion believes the Bible, and the book of Mormon are one complete book, so it would be safe to say, "Mormons believe in the Bible."

The things you said about how to change the situation would work, but we both know men won’t do that. In the Bible which we both believe in, God says, "Man can’t guide his own footsteps." If it is in the Bible we believe it, right Charlie? God also says: "He is the only one who can change mans direction." Jesus who we again both believe in, spoke of two different seed on this planet…"The Wheat, and the Tars." Two different DNA. The Wheat are Gods people from the seed of Adam, and the Tars Satan seed from Satan.
God killed, and had killed many people in the Bible…these were not those of the Wheat, but Tars. Tars can not be changed. Their goal in life? Kill those of the Wheat by any means, murder, war, and their main weapon, the lie. As you know Charlie, many religions lie to people about Gods word, leading them to disobey God without knowing it, which could lead to their death.
As much as good people want to change the troubles on this planet, they can not. Are things going to get better? We both know the Bible says the will get so bad, God will have to intervene, or no flesh would survive. With that in mind, we know man can try this, and that, and no effort of man will work.
I was thinking about our world the other day. My father died in 1969. If those who died in my fathers generation came back to life today, they would see a far different world than they lived it…This is not the same world those of us can remember…this is a complete different world than we knew back then, and it will not get better…it’s going to get very bad…The Wheat have known this for a very long time. The next big thing that we are told in the Bible that will happen is, All religions will be destroyed by the Nations…these religions are known as, "Babylon the great, the Great Whore." Babylon who has been riding on the back of the Beast( the nations.) It says the Beast will turn, and destroy Babylon the Great. That is all religions Charlie…all religions are false. Look at what they do? Religion is a tool of the Tars. God warns, "Get out of her my people."
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Charlie Moore
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PostSubject: Re: Agree Or Dis-Agree Pres. Obama, Guns, NRA I Have    Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:29 am

My comments were my view of the reason for gun violence. I can't say for sure what man will do, but I do tend to agree with your assessment that things will get worse before they get better, Domenic. I'm not a religious scholar, but perhaps I'll post my view of the wheat and tares over in the religion and spirituality section.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Agree Or Dis-Agree Pres. Obama, Guns, NRA I Have    Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:55 pm

I believe a culture change is required.  So long as the older generation passes their unchangeable beliefs to a younger generation culture will not change.  When the younger generation finally gets fed up with death and destruction, there may be hope.
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