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 June 6 1944

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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: June 6 1944   Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:54 am

Each year on this date, I take a walk. I remember the young men, and women who died. The people we call, "The best generation." I remember them. They were my parents,my teacher, Miss Dearth, Woody, who owned the drug store, and always gave kids ice cream....these were the adults of my youth. They didn't die for God, and country...they fought for it, but they didn't want to die. Each year at this time I remember them. I wonder how they would feel if they could see the world today? I'm glad they can't...I would be ashamed to face them, and say, "This is what you died for." I feel ashamed...they died so young. We owe them more than what we allowed this world to become.
I try to live by what I learned from them. It puts me out of step with most of the world, but I don't care. I guess it's my way of remembering they died, and they just wanted to live. They will always be my hero's...not because they died, because they indeed, were the best of the best generations.
The little guy leading my hero's, his name was Ernie Pyle.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:23 pm

Every generation moans about the current generation and the state of the world.  I've come to believe that is part of the evolutionary process.  I believe that death in wars is part of the evolutionary process that has not yet fully evolved.  When it has, there will be no more wars and matters will be settled in economic and other ways. 

Right now, it seems cyber hacking is setting a new type of conflict where at least no one losses a life though they may lose their identity and their resources.

I honor all those who have fought in wars because that was their time in this unfolding of this universe and their intent was to create a better world.  In many ways, the world is better or at least different.  there are many hopeful things but they seem to get little notice.

Today I visited ECHO farms - a Christian organization that teaches farming to the poor of the world. It's an amazing enterprise that uses what's available to create land wonders instead of destroying for the "good" of the order.  Yes, there is good in this world for which young men fought so valiantly.  We just have to look for it.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:14 pm

Part of the evolutionary process? That is detestable.
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Don Stephens
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:56 pm

Domenic Pappalardo wrote:
The people we call, "The best generation." I remember them. They didn't die for God, and country...they fought for it, but they didn't want to die. Each year at this time I remember them. I wonder how they would feel if they could see the world today? I'm glad they can't...I would be ashamed to face them, and say, "This is what you died for." I feel ashamed...they died so young. We owe them more than what we allowed this world to become.
I try to live by what I learned from them. It puts me out of step with most of the world, but I don't care. I guess it's my way of remembering they died, and they just wanted to live. They will always be my hero's...not because they died, because they indeed, were the best of the best generations.


Dom,

Now I know there is hope for the world, because even you and I can agree on something.  God Bless...NEVER FORGET! 
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:21 am

When I read things as posted above, I am comforted that so many see the lives lost as for a noble cause.  At the same time, I find it difficult to believe that these people died willingly.  It is easier for me to accept that their time had come.  Self-preservation doesn't equate with throwing life away.   From veterans engaged in war, I learned that survival was their main goal.  Some became heroes when they risked their lives to save a comrade.   Doing ones duty, whether that duty was voluntary or forced is often viewed as patriotism.  It is a form of comfort to know that the lives lost were not in vain. 
War veterans should be remembered in an honorable way.  Those that survived consider themselves lucky.  They will always remember those who didn’t make it, especially a friend or buddy.  Some memories they try to forget, but can’t.  They wake up in the middle of the night screaming.  Some are scarred for life.  It is just another reason any country should take care of their veterans.  They gave a good portion of their lives in doing their duty.
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Shelagh
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:34 am

Dick never saw himself as a hero, but without him and many more like him, the world would be a very different place.

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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:24 am

Agree, Shelagh.  I read his book numerous times and learned more about the real man he was.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:02 am

My point is that the world is a better place.   I do not believe that the past generation is better than any other, just different. I do not believe that wars make a world a better place.  I believe that wars are the means available at this point in our evolution as a human species.  Some developed countries have reached a point where they do not participate in wars except to provide for the suffering. To me, the very fact that wars have rules are proof that they do not need to occur.  If agreement can be reached on "rules of war" than the same energy can go into the "rules of peace."

I thank military people for their service.  Because they volunteer today, those who do not wish to serve in the military have choices.  Even so, many still enter the military not because of combat potential but rather the perks when their stint is up.  That's why most who sign up are not the elite of society but rather the poor farm boys from Kansas and the Dakotas and the impoverished in the mountains and the inner cities.  The beauty is the excellence with which they serve.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:28 pm

I share your thoughts, DK.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:02 am

Good thread and marvelous thoughts.
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harry
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:10 am

good topic
The death come, but which way the death come and when it come. Wars are wars and wars end up by fighting, and wars make heroes and I also respect heroes of the wars when they are more or less fair fighters - but what I cannot respect are those submariners and their her captains. who were lurking in the deep and darkness sinking  the merchant ships maned   mainly with civilians,  seamen who served in those Russian convoys bound for North. It was war but it was war against naked siviilians, nasty business anyway
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:24 am

harry wrote:
good topic
The death come, but which way the death come and when it come. Wars are wars and wars end up by fighting, and wars make heroes and I also respect heroes of the wars when they are more or less fair fighters - but what I cannot respect are those submariners and their her captains. who were lurking in the deep and darkness sinking  the merchant ships maned   mainly with civilians,  seamen who served in those Russian convoys bound for North. It was war but it was war against naked siviilians, nasty business anyway


I don't agree harry. It is the naked civilians that make the war. It is the naked civilian that build the tools of war, and feed the men at arms. As to the submariners; 3/4 of those men died, Englanders, Americans, Germans, a Japanese alike. The civilians on the ships were not drafted...they supplied the tools of war.
Without the support of the civilians there would be no war. It is when the civilians give up, is when wars end. If you want to win a war, you kill civilians.
Germany lost the war because the RAF, and the 8th Air Force  killed civilians. When Russia took Berlin, the women of Berlin said, "It is better to have a Russian on your belly, than an American over your head."

What do I think of war? Kill anything that moves, and it if don't move, blow it up. Kill women, children, old people. Destroy everything in front of you. No rules. make it so bad men will never want to do it again.
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harry
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:19 am

Although Domenic is partly right saying that the war ended up by killing all what move - there have been a man who kept the similar war doctrine in use in 1240 they killed all and everything what moved and also those what not moved like  already fallen and died, the order was given 
Temujin,the remarkable man who became Cenghis Khan. Before Temujin Mongols nomadic  people  hunting  and herded in the central steppes of Asia until Temujin got an idea that the Mongols were born to rule the world, He and his 'four hounds',formulated most brutal army in the history which swept from  China to Medriterrnian, over the Russian cities up to Volga.  They moved and killed and destroyed  all and    everything, they tore down every city came on their road. Genghis khan's was calculated massacre, when the cities  were felled in his arm, the inhabitants were were   slaughtered when rumor reached the Khan that some ones had survied by hiding among the piled corpses, he ordered the heads cur off all the bodies.
that's the point, one could think that when the war was so cruel as it was - the people will not start anymore war, vice verse, the minkind learned nothing about the cruel of those Mongols -but - of course, art of war
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:28 pm

You don't understand harry,
Genghis Khan was one man...he could do nothing unless the people did what he said. If the people had said, "No," Genghis Khan would have had no army. If the people of Germany had said,"No, Hitler would have been nothing. One person cannot rule unless the citizens support that one person. The problem with the world has always been the citizens. The young people of America stopped the war in Nam by saying, "NO."  The truth today harry is most people don't give a damn about other people. Ask yourself this, "Would I die to save a stranger, a dirty homeless person who just gave me the finger?" Good people will harry, bad people will not...does that give you some idea what this world is like? I hear people talking abut how man is growing into a perfect race...far from it, it is going 180 the other way.
Do you care about the people who have not food in many places of the world harry? If you do, ask yourself, "If I care, what have I done?"
It's not the jerk who becomes the big leader harry, it's the citizen who supports, or turns a blind eye that is the bad guy.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:52 pm

I do believe that many people are living more spiritual lives of generosity.  We just don't hear about them much.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:22 pm

Harry, history reveals facts to the contrary.  The Allies bombed Dresden killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, trying to break the back of the German war machine.  It had the opposite effect.  It hardened the people against the enemy.  Many who were opposed to the Hitler regime began to lend their support.  Dresden was not a military target as there was no German military presence in Dresden.  Targeting civilians is wrong in any war.  Targeting of factories producing war materials by civilian workers is not the same thing.
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harry
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:57 am

With all the respect the discussion of this topic require - I cannot but disagree  with the point of view that the mass folk could be acting  as independent  stock. Actually  the masses know nothing, yet they had lsat  at schools for years J. Rousseau said that "the masses is that part of a state who don't  know what they want, they wanted good, but they don't know what is good for them, so the masses need a guide to show the good",  there have been so many leaders who have shown the way to people and every time the way has led to war. And before every war there has had a raise of nationalism,the nationalism, the war and the leader, they all are always bound together with the questions  Who we are? Are we a nation or chicken? At present days I have every days watch of the TV; how some old general or young army officer behave like a gamecock " they dare not came here, they know they get bunched if they come.."
Domenick, i think the war in vietnam  did not ended because the people in american wanted it to end, before the american troops  in vietnam there was  the Frans Legion, when the legionares were lost the batle, american took over and the war then continued  till 1975. It was too long war for any nation to endure. It ended not with  the press of american civilians, it ended because south vietnam and her aliens lost the batle, the north vietnam troops ran over the southers and trew them into sea the souther army was totally lost
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:36 am

I find this discussion about war, cause and effect, very interesting and thank you all for contributing your understanding of the circumstances.  As I see it, the source of information makes a difference in the understanding.

Leaders foster a strong sense of nationalism as a prerequisite to lead their countries into war.  It is more difficult to murder those with whom friendship has been garnered - although politicians who sit back in their comfort see people as numbers (not all politicians).

Leaders also use war as a means to bring a nation into a national frenzy.  It seems to work both ways.

It appears (and I am not well-informed on this matter except what I can garner from various news media) that Putin's saber rattling came at a time when he needed to garner political support. 

It also appears to me that the wealthy U.S. is a big target for other poorer nations to use in inciting their populations to a hateful mentality toward the West.  As a relatively young nation, we lack the history and grace to find our place in the world without rattling our own sabers.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:50 am

harry wrote:
With all the respect the discussion of this topic require - I cannot but disagree  with the point of view that the mass folk could be acting  as independent  stock. Actually  the masses know nothing, yet they had lsat  at schools for years J. Rousseau said that "the masses is that part of a state who don't  know what they want, they wanted good, but they don't know what is good for them, so the masses need a guide to show the good",  there have been so many leaders who have shown the way to people and every time the way has led to war. And before every war there has had a raise of nationalism,the nationalism, the war and the leader, they all are always bound together with the questions  Who we are? Are we a nation or chicken? At present days I have every days watch of the TV; how some old general or young army officer behave like a gamecock " they dare not came here, they know they get bunched if they come.."
Domenick, i think the war in vietnam  did not ended because the people in american wanted it to end, before the american troops  in vietnam there was  the Frans Legion, when the legionares were lost the batle, american took over and the war then continued  till 1975. It was too long war for any nation to endure. It ended not with  the press of american civilians, it ended because south vietnam and her aliens lost the batle, the north vietnam troops ran over the southers and trew them into sea the souther army was totally lost

Harry,
This is my take on war: I am only one person out of billions. I can't stop a war, nor change its course. All I can control in what I do. I step back, and say no, "I will not kill, nor make the arms needed for war." If the rest of the world goes crazy and wants to kill, I may die, but I won't join in the madness. I live by, "It is better to die, then to kill."
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:49 am

Harry and Domenic, I respect your position on war and feel much the same. 
There seems to be a war mentality in the US.  Remarks made by some leaders and by many citizens feel the answer to problems is war.  Often have I heard people remark: "We should bomb them into oblivion."  "We should wipe them off the face fo the earth."  It is assumed that all people living in a country are in accord with their leaders and that is the greatest mistake.  How many Americans supported the Bush-led invasion of Iraq?  Should every American citizen to be held responsible for the actions of their leaders? 

Our leaders tell us who our enemies are.  In boot camp, the job of the T.I. or D.I. is not only to provide the skills for combat, but also to create hate for the stated enemy.  It is a well planned brain-washing to instill a killer mindset. 

Leaders who want to go to war for whatever reason, use propaganda to prepare the citizens for war.  Truth is revealed when the battles are over and the weeping for those lost is abated.  We can't undo anything, but we can work to prevent it or stop it in process.  Waving the flag will not bring people back to life.  Do we do what we think is right for our coutnry or do we succumb to the propaganda of greedy, deceiving leaders?  Declaring War can be for political purposes or to boost the economy.  Loss of life appears to be the least consideration. 

I hate war.  The scars of war continue long after the war is over.  Psychological scars remain for a lifetime.

Seeking a peaceful solution to problems is the sane way to go.  I applaud those who work to prevent war.  They should be honored for their efforts.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: June 6 1944   Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:25 am

Abe F. March wrote:
Harry and Domenic, I respect your position on war and feel much the same. 
There seems to be a war mentality in the US.  Remarks made by some leaders and by many citizens feel the answer to problems is war.  Often have I heard people remark: "We should bomb them into oblivion."  "We should wipe them off the face fo the earth."  It is assumed that all people living in a country are in accord with their leaders and that is the greatest mistake.  How many Americans supported the Bush-led invasion of Iraq?  Should every American citizen to be held responsible for the actions of their leaders? 

Our leaders tell us who our enemies are.  In boot camp, the job of the T.I. or D.I. is not only to provide the skills for combat, but also to create hate for the stated enemy.  It is a well planned brain-washing to instill a killer mindset. 

Leaders who want to go to war for whatever reason, use propaganda to prepare the citizens for war.  Truth is revealed when the battles are over and the weeping for those lost is abated.  We can't undo anything, but we can work to prevent it or stop it in process.  Waving the flag will not bring people back to life.  Do we do what we think is right for our coutnry or do we succumb to the propaganda of greedy, deceiving leaders?  Declaring War can be for political purposes or to boost the economy.  Loss of life appears to be the least consideration. 

I hate war.  The scars of war continue long after the war is over.  Psychological scars remain for a lifetime.

Seeking a peaceful solution to problems is the sane way to go.  I applaud those who work to prevent war.  They should be honored for their efforts.

Abe,
You and I are close in age, so I'm sure you recall how things were when we were young men...the hero war movies, it was
being a man to be in the service, and America was always right, and all the other BS. Little did we know the kids in other countries heard the same story, and how god was on their side also. 
I used to know a man who was in WW1, and I asked him, "Why did you go to war?" His reply was, "If you were at an age to go, people on the street would come up to you and ask why you were not in uniform?" He said he lived in Chicago, and a crowed of people wanted to know why he had not joined? He said you had to sign up, or get hurt.
Why does the middle east hate the United States? Look what we stand for. The middle east is fighting for their religion, not land. The united states in their eyes is evil...we stand for sex outside of marriage, same sex marriage, and support a religion that is against their religion, and are on what they believe is part of their holy land...Israel.  The President of the united states went over seas trying to get the rest of the world to except same sex marriage...the middle east sees this as an attack on god. The united states is known as a Christian country...same sex marriage? that is why the middle east thinks this country is evil, because it goes against the gods of all religions...just think about that? True there is only one god, and different people believe in him in different ways, but they all believe same sex marriage, or action is evil...the American President goes to other countries trying to promote same sex marriage? Look at the race problems we have. This country puts its nose into every other countries business. I think it forgot, "Clean your own house first." I know the middle east is wrong, but the list of things that make America right are also in question.
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