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 Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !

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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:25 pm

DK, You have spoken for me.
Love
Betty
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:38 pm

What Betty said.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:44 pm

You know I've sat down and thought about all this ! When you have a President
 from a different party why can't they have their cabinet with different party members, that
 way they all can come up with different ideas and maybe do things right, like a Republican 
 President and a Democratic Vice Pres. Or  a Democratic President and a Republican Vice-Pres.
 I do believe it would work. I believe we have to stop importing workers and make our
 colleges " FREE," so young people can get educated but they must have high grades so
 they can get into free college. As for Health Care I think they did it too dam fast, it needs
 to be re-done like the Canadian System...Our Social Secuirty system needs to be over-hauled
too much abuse and too much sticky fingers in the cookie jar by Washington...Congress has to
change, they hardly work and make more money than the average middle class worker, they should only be paid if they work......All seniors need a much larger increase at the end of each year and I don't mean 1.5% , it should be 7% , if Congress can give themselves huge increases
we'll the seniors need one too, the money can come from foreign aide which isn't needed anymore too many countries screwing this country out of money which comes to billions of dollars every year...unless it's a natural disaster....

                                                                        Cheers.....Joe....Very Happy
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:07 pm

Well Mr. Joe, I do like about 3/4 of what you said.  The problems come in the details.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:14 pm

I could run for President but Congress would hang me upside down !

                                                    Cheers..Joe
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:33 pm

Dream on, Joe.  Congress won't change and why should they?

They make the policies and raises for seniors are not their priorities.
Not when they can have tax breaks for wealthy folks and more defense equipment.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:48 pm

TRUE !!
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Victor D. Lopez
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:58 pm

Abe,

I actually agree with what you write. Perception does matter, as does ideology. We are all affected by the source of our information. We all see the world through the prism of our prejudices and predilections--and that includes prejudices for and against ideologies and ideas. My problem is never with disagreement, but with the blinders that good, intelligent people have and their inability/unwillingness to recognize them. An excellent example is the constant bashing of Fox News as though it were an outlier, a propaganda machine for the right, by people (including a few dear friends of mine) who largely base their opinion on what "right thinking" organizations like MSNBC have to say, taking those attacks as "objective" while bashing FOX often without ever tuning in to that network.  Yes, one person's propaganda is another person's "education." Yes, there are very significant and largely irreconcilable differences on what right of center reasonable people and left of center reasonable people hold top be "truths." It is as difficult for me to read what people I actually respect here write on a regular basis in defense of the indefensible as I am sure it is for them to read what I write and they take in the same light. It is one reason I stay away from this forum for long periods of time (work and life are another) and one reason I simply don't read anything a couple of new and old friends of this forum write at all.

My politics are center right, yes. (emphasis on CENTER, not RIGHT) But I listen to all points of view (except those unworthy of my time, like MSNBC or the Village Voice) and actually get my news from a wide range of sources regularly that includes Fox News, CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera (yes, I do tune in fairly regularly to Al Jazeera), PBS, and local and foreign newspapers from the right and left. All media spins--yes, Fox offers a slanted view, as does CNN, and The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal, and Al Jazeera, and ABC, CBS and NBC. Only MSNBC makes my "never view them anymore lest my head explode" list. They've earned it. I've listened to NY Public Radio all my life, and God knows it offers left-leaning perspectives on everything all the time. But it is a quality left-leaning perspective and I respect both the point of view and the people that espouse them.i don't listen to out and out loons from the right OR the left any more than I would listen to what people at a KKK,  American Nazi Party or Communist Party or Anarchist's meeting have to say. I know their point of view and the hatred that informs it (of race, religion, order, government, and whole classes of people--sometimes all at once) and would no more listen to their rantings any more than I would the brayings of a rabid ass. I've read Marx and Engels and Proudhon and can articulate the major points of anarchism and communism, including where they intersect and diverge, better than most of the morons that supposedly follow them without having read (or, if read, understood) them. I'm afraid I've never read Mein Kempf so I'd have greater trouble speaking for those particular idiots, though I think I get the gist of their particular philosophy having read Nietzsche and having some idea how a rabid ass might interpret him as the foundation of building a master race (small caps--very small). 

As to president Obama's status as a Constitutional Law Professor, I'll add a few words as that too is a bit misleading. First, he was not a  "professor" but a "lecturer" and "senior lecturer"--non-tenure track positions. (In the hierarchy of academia, there are typically five ranks from lowest to highest: lecturer, instructor, assistant professor, associate professor, and professor. In addition, there are two very distinct tracks with very, very different hiring criteria and credentials: adjunct/non-tenure-track and tenure track/tenured.) Lecturers and instructors are not professors, though students may refer to them as such as a courtesy. He certainly knows he was not a "Professor of Constitutional Law" as he has claimed and which means something very specific as any academic knows. He was four ranks below that and in a non-tenure track position. Those are facts as best I've been able to verify them. He did teach Constitutional Law regularly for 12 years. I've read (and believe) that he was invited to join the full-time faculty but declined due to his community organizing and political activities during that time. I could find no record of any scholarly publication on law (let alone Constitutional Law) by the President while he was a lecturer or senior lecturer.  That is not at all unusual for a lecturer, but certainly precludes him from being considered a Constitutional Scholar. That aside, the courts--the real Constitutional authorities--will decide the issue of the Constitutionality of his executive orders. There is certainly no Constitutional authority or precedent that allows the President to overturn current immigration law which Art. I Sec. 8 of the U.S. Constitution expressly gives Congress the exclusive authority to control and legislate. The President's actions are, I believe, illegal and strictly politically motivated. His position is basically that he will legislate through executive order because Congress has decided not to act on immigration reform as he believes it should. You don't need to be a Constitutional scholar to know that he simply lacks the authority to legislate in Congress's stead simply because Congress won't do what he wants it to do, any more than Congress can step in and act on Eric Holder's behalf simply because the AG refuses to enforce certain laws that Congress has passed, presidents have signed and the administration refuses to enforce. The issue is currently in the courts with one federal court already ruling his actions Unconstitutional.No court can hold otherwise other than by completely ignoring the Constitution and the rule of law, in my view.

I also wish we could discuss this face to face, preferably in an outdoor cafe or bar with a couple of steins of cold beer. We might never agree, but I know we'd remain friends and might at least somewhat shift our points of view to arrive at a conclusion we could both support. If Congress and the President could do the same, imagine what they could do.


Last edited by Victor D. Lopez on Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Victor D. Lopez
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:38 pm

Alice,

Not a single distortion or lie in anything I've ever posted here, though I may be mistaken as to my assumptions (and no, I don't think you were specifically referring to me--at least I hope not). There are lots of distortions and lies to be sure out there, but they are as rampant on the left as they are on the right. That fact is obvious.

DK,

The poor do not pay federal or state income taxes (in most states) and 50% of Americans are already supporting them through tax credits (they pay no taxes but get generous refunds and payments for having children and generous entitlements, including welfare, housing allowances, educational and training allowances, child care allowances, medicaid, etc., etc., etc.). The income redistribution crowd want more to be exacted from the productive members of society so that it is even less attractive to get out of teh poverty spiral taht currently traps good people on multi-generational dependency on government. I agree with you on the treatment of out veterans--and am appalled at our treatment of the elderly. It breaks my heart to see senior citizens in line at grocery stores counting their pennies to pay for meager food supplies. It breaks my heart, and if there were a way for me to pay for their food ithout embarrassing them and taking away even more of their dignity in doing so I would. Military families on food stamps breaks my heart. That's where I want my money to go and am willing to pay more in taxes for these individuals who are worthy of my compassion to have less of a struggle. Able bodied people living off the dole because it pays better when all the freebies are tallied than an average job in their community infuriates me as it literally takes food from teh mouths of that octogenarean in line at ALDIS counting her pennies. Yes we need to redistribute income, but not the way we do now. Yes it may require higher taxes for most working Americans--especially the wealthiest among us. The problem is that socialist countries NEVER make the hard choices and invariably end up like the cesspools of poverty we see in modern day Venezuela, Cuba, the old Soviet union Putin is trying to revive, or even Greece where governmental largesse is expected to be subsidized by income redistribution from "wealthier" EU members like Germany where people work their bums off to provide a better life for themselves and their families, not to subsidize countries whose people demand they continue to live beyond their means.  We need to rein in entitlements and redistribute the limited pie in a rational way that encourages people to get an education and be self-sufficient and discourages living off the sweat of others.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:16 pm

The Next President Of The United States In 2016 Is..

                                                     Cheers..........Joe...........

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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:05 pm

Victor,
The thought of you lying never crossed my mind.  You are not the media.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:43 pm

Alice..What's the matter am I invisible to you,,..Did you see my
      last post ?

                                                                      Joe

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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:14 pm

Yes, Joe  I saw it.  i doubt it, however.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:26 pm

You evidently you don't know Hillary.......

                                                 Cheers..Joe.......................Very Happy
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:15 am

I.  Evidently, I don't.  I do know the press however.  They will hound her until she gives up.
Likewise with all of the candidates. 

We will be left with two idiots running.  
What fun.

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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:21 am

You nailed it again, Alice.
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:44 am

Ted Cruz is running.  He will abolish the government.  That will please those that want to go back to the "good ole' days" of segregation, the poor house, child labor, lack of safety standards for food and products, unequal education opportunities, and the list goes on. 

He is, however, classified as a brilliant debater and of intelligence. The way people in this country have been led to feel about the government by the conservative republicans, he has a chance.'

The reason we have government is because we live in civil society where we are our brother's keeper and laws are required for the pubic safety.  The fanatics are winning across the globe.  Yikes.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:52 am

3/22

                           Ted Cruz no way ! A President cannot abolish the Govt. he would
  be arrested, the Congress has the power to have a President thrown in prison,
 read our diocuments, we aren't a third world country yet......

                                                         Cheers...Joe.............................................................
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:17 am

We are heading for a third world country.
An idiot  cut in half  should have better sense in either end than to want to abolish the government
or run for president.


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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:48 am

By the way, Ted Cruz belongs in jail for treason.  Who could support him as president?

His indiscretions far surpass the email controversy.
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:46 am

The congress can abolish the departments that administer the regulations for legislation.  Then all administration would be returned to the states to manage, each individually, as they wish.  That was how it was done when bit by bit the Federal government had to step in to make sure that our "one country" was providing equal access to opportunities in spite of states that were still operating in the dark ages.  The laws still on the books in some states are appalling.

Once again, Ted Cruz is a man with apparent IQ (not meaning he uses it to benefit anyone but himself) who found a way to promote himself and the fanatics in the tea party to pay for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:54 am

The Republican party has major in fighting because of the tea party,
                  I believe Cruz will be laughed at and not taken seriously, his head
                  lines will last one month that's it....

                                                              Cheers.....Joe
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:12 pm

I sincerely hope you are 1000% correct,  Joe.
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:47 pm

Victor, thanks for taking the time to clarify some significant leanings and beliefs.  It's equally challenging for "liberals" to be labeled as wanting to pay those who make no attempt to find employment.  Unfortunately, in my work taking people off the welfare roles and forcing them into training and employment as an administrator of WAGES (Work and Gain Economic Self-sufficiency) that was designed to accomplish that task, we found that tracking the fraud cases was more expensive than the few losses.  That's the reality. That is also the issue with Food Stamps, etc.  Sufficient monitoring safeguards seem to be beyond those who design the programs. The transient nature of homelessness, single parenthood and unemployment contributes to the problem.  We would all like to only assist those truly deserving - even the most socialist among us.

Those suffering the most from cuts to safety net programs were the elderly, the homeless, the children, the disabled, the working poor, the vets, those with mental issues and generally the most vulnerable populations.  Those who scam systems found another way to support themselves from scamming somewhere else or resorting to outright thieving.

While I do not know the status of every program in the U.S., I was co-responsible for 15,000 people receiving subsistence payments in a major metropolitan area.  The private provider (privatization - that wonder of capitalism) had lost them.  They had disappeared into the morass of faceless numbers.  We found them, we helped them, and we revamped the service delivery in a private/public partnership that returned their dignity where possible and the dignity of the near poverty level case workers who were delivering services and qualifying recipients.  We were harangued by the press, picketed and marched upon at board meetings and some were threatened.  Bullet proof glass was requested in some of our service centers and instead, I put in new systems that included pre-screening in freshly painted and decorated offices that treated people as humans instead of "#101" in rows of folding chairs,babies screeming, and included childcare (an intern program with local schools providing the personnel) and I fought to increase the pay and the dignity of the workers who were just a step above the recipients and looked the part originally.

Properly designed programs for safety nets that include appropriate monitoring provide people without the benefits of support systems from wherever including self-motivation,  a "leg up" to contributing citizenship and dignity and are an asset to society at large and yes, to the accumulation of wealth by those who "made it" without fear of being robbed or becoming ill or driving through the "wrong" neighborhoods but rather benefiting from the labors of working class people.  Unfortunately, the "excesses" attributed to these programs never include sufficient pay for case workers, safeguards, monitoring, or even the consistency to follow individuals and insure they are making the progress needed.  Another horrifying example is child welfare where notoriously low pay and poorly trained and overworked case workers lead to children neglected and abused.  I had a qualified friend who wanted to help in the system but it broke her back emotionally with the number of cases and the impossibility of accomplishing anything in the budget constraints.

I agree that a round table of colleagues who can hold their emotions and put their expertise on the table to make improvements is so needed in every community, every state and the nation; yet, we are all subject to just the problems of tunnel vision you outlined, Victor, and emotions and tightly held beliefs get in the way of fixing systems so they work well.

I used your name, Victor, because you took the time to very carefully delineate your beliefs and concerns and it was very helpful.  This forum has had some very thought-provoking debates that ended amicably and...otherwise.  The otherwise was usually because we used a name or labeled someone.  In this case, I think using names was positive.  What do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: Pres. Obama Wants To Make Voting Mandatory !    Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:27 pm

I am not Victor, but, I am his older sister.   Are we to forget the expensive govt shut down?  
Not I. I mind my pennies..
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