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 science says, "Big bang theory, is wrong."

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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: science says, "Big bang theory, is wrong."   Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:45 pm

dkchristi wrote:
My minister reads from the Bible each Sunday and often reads texts that are conflicting.  He explains that the Bible is a collection of selected writings in the Aramaic language then translated to the King James Version for English readers and to other languages for other readers. The translators added their contextual understanding to their translations.  Note that Jesus did not write down his instructions to followers.  Others wrote down what they believed he said.  I rest my case.

 dkchristi,


If that is the explanation  your minister gave you, I would look for someone different…someone who knows the Bible.
What he should have told you:  The first bible was taken from scrolls. When the Dead  Sea scrolls were found, they matched the scrolls the bible was taken from.  These  two sets of scrolls are many years apart…the Dead Sea scrolls being the older.
Since the Bible was taken from scrolls, they should match word for word.  I know for a fact they do not.
So if the Bible does not match the scrolls, who  has made the error? It was religion that made the translation.  Over fifty other scrolls were also left out of the Bible. They claim because they did not meet the standard they need to.  What standards would that be?  Let me be the first to tell you. The standards that do not show what religions are teaching are false.

One of the books they left out was the book of Enoch.  Enoch is in the Bible over three times. He was the seventh from Adam, and the great grandfather of Noah. Enoch wrote that God would destroy the earth with water. He told about the angels who came to earth in the form of God men, and what they did…He even gives their names.  Enoch died before the flood. He did not go into the grave, God took him. What standard would his book not meet? Genesis 5:22 says, “Enoch walked with God.”  He didn’t  just see God, he walked with him. Much of the Bible has been changed…by religions. They teach false things. Going to heaven is false.  A hell of fire is false.  What they say took place in the Garden is false. The reason Jesus was dead for three day (2.5) is left out. They never explain Genesis 3:15, which is what the whole Bible is about. No one can sit in a church and learn the Bible. They cannot know what the Bible is saying unless they have a full study of it, and the scrolls…and it all has to be proven out.
Religions teach the bad will not have life. That is a lie. The scriptures show the only people who will not be given a chance at everlasting life, are those who died at Gods hand.
The first thing I teach students, All religions are false, and not from God. My main tool? The Bible the religious leaders claim to teach from.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: science says, "Big bang theory, is wrong."   Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:48 pm

As previously discussed, religion and politics are subjects where there is seldom a consensus.  When I was a child, I heard people say that they believed the Bible from cover to cover.  That sounded good and perhaps made them feel good, however I discovered that belief and living that belief were not the same.  Interpretation of scripture created many spin-off denominations.  Words written many years ago took on different meanings.  I'm not going to delve into the history of religion or how the words of Jesus and the prophets were eventually recorded.  Taking the words in today's Bible literally, regardless of version, and then argue about the meaning is ignorance bordering on stupidity.  Those who study the history of religion with open eyes and not blinded by dogma, have a better understanding of what the Bible represents.  It is a great guide on how to live.  To argue over the meaning of man-written words is pure nonsense. As writers, we know how our words can be misunderstood and that is using modern English.  When trying to translate from one language to another it becomes apparent that word-for-word translation is not possible.  It requires the translator to improvise to make the words understood.  Imagine that happening from the initial hearsay version of what was said, then translated from one language to another: (Aramaic, Greek, Latin, German, English, etc.).  It doesn't take a genius to realize that the meaning of the written words were altered. 
In the end, it is our personal belief that is important and important only to us.  To say that one religion is right or one version is right is nonsense.  This is my personal take on the subject.  I may be wrong, but what I believe feels right to me and that is what governs my life.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: science says, "Big bang theory, is wrong."   Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 am

Agreed, Abe.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: science says, "Big bang theory, is wrong."   Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:28 am

Abe F. March wrote:
As previously discussed, religion and politics are subjects where there is seldom a consensus.  When I was a child, I heard people say that they believed the Bible from cover to cover.  That sounded good and perhaps made them feel good, however I discovered that belief and living that belief were not the same.  Interpretation of scripture created many spin-off denominations.  Words written many years ago took on different meanings.  I'm not going to delve into the history of religion or how the words of Jesus and the prophets were eventually recorded.  Taking the words in today's Bible literally, regardless of version, and then argue about the meaning is ignorance bordering on stupidity.  Those who study the history of religion with open eyes and not blinded by dogma, have a better understanding of what the Bible represents.  It is a great guide on how to live.  To argue over the meaning of man-written words is pure nonsense. As writers, we know how our words can be misunderstood and that is using modern English.  When trying to translate from one language to another it becomes apparent that word-for-word translation is not possible.  It requires the translator to improvise to make the words understood.  Imagine that happening from the initial hearsay version of what was said, then translated from one language to another: (Aramaic, Greek, Latin, German, English, etc.).  It doesn't take a genius to realize that the meaning of the written words were altered. 
In the end, it is our personal belief that is important and important only to us.  To say that one religion is right or one version is right is nonsense.  This is my personal take on the subject.  I may be wrong, but what I believe feels right to me and that is what governs my life.



Those are all very good points Abe. You bring up the question, “How can a man of our time trust what is written by men?”

Many turn to science for truth,  Yet these are only men, and as the OP addresses, the men of science with their theories has proven un-true many times. Often science presents theories as truth, yet they have no facts to prove what they say. Schools teach theory as fact…again, they are teaching only theory. People write books on history, most is how they see it. Other writers give biographies of famous or infamous people, and these are taken as truth…but are they?

Many ask, “How can we believe Jesus said this, and that…Jesus never wrote down what he said…how do  we know those who recorded what Jesus said, is really what he meant?

Would that not hold true of any history of other men? Outside of Hitler’s one book, “My Struggle,” he wrote nothing about his life after. All during the war years Hitler is recorded by others as a mad man. Was he? Those who wrote these things about him were high members of the Nazi party. They were in a world of trouble for the things they did…they put the blame on a dead man who could not reply. How do we know anything they said was true? Can we truts any history?
Moses freed the Hebrew people from Egypt…yet there has never been found in Egypt, any  single thing to prove the Hebrews were ever in Egypt? There is also nothing to prove Moses was a real person? Can we trust anything?

How about our own feelings on things? Do we just pick, or invent a theory that pleases us? If we can’t prove what we believe, are we not saying, “What we believe is no stronger than the Bible?” Where does one draw a line in what to believe, and how? Many on this forum do not believe in the Bible, yet say they believe in a God…how do they prove to their self there is a God?
 I’ll tell you what most are doing Abe, They are saying to their self…”I am a good person, so whatever is beyond death will not harm me.” In all truth, not one person alive, or who has ever lived is good. Jesus even asked, “Why do you call me good? Only the Father who is in Heaven is good.”  Truth, what is it? It is not what we believe, or wish for…it is not science. It is not even words written in any book…it is what we can hold in our hands, feel, and look at in the sun light.

This much I do know. There was no Big Bang. Even science has given way to that truth…So how did all this come about? It did not make itself? All things are made of the same material, the atom. If the universe invented itself, a simple rock could make a universe, or a grain of sand...has any body ever seen that happen? I have not, have you?
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: science says, "Big bang theory, is wrong."   Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:06 pm

I can't argue with the points you made, Dom.  Even proof is subject to question.  We either have a belief or not.  If we say what we believe, someone somewhere will criticize our belief.  Does that make it false?  If you have faith in the Bible and believe everything it says to be truth.  I congratulate you.  Why would you feel the need to try and prove to anyone else that what you believe is right when you cannot provide proof.  Speculation or theory is not proof as you pointed out.  Belief is truth to the person believing.  It is faith in what you believe to be true that is right for you.  What I believe as truth is right for me.  I feel satisfied in my faith.  It is often my gut that tells me what words cannot.  Following that gut feeling has proven to be right for me.  If I believe in eternal life, that satisfies me.  I admit that science contributed to that belief.  We read the words of past great men and often quote them.  What they said has meaning and makes sense.  There are many Greek philosophers who are studied and their words discussed.  Who is to say that it was not all BS or that what they said held truth? 
I enjoy talking with people of like minds.  We may not agree on all points, but we are in accord with the basics of our discussion.  It is  much like talking politics.  I enjoy talking with people who have the same basic understanding of viewpoints as I have.  To argue about what a particular politican might do if elected is a waste of time.  Even when they say what we want to hear, it usually is said to get our vote and if elected, only then can we determine if what they promised was true or if they lied.  I trust myself.  I also trust my wife at least 99% of the time.  Being true to yourself is the right thing, IMV. 
If we stop trying to convert others to our point of view whether that be religion or politics we can save ourselves much frustration.  I know what I know and also know what I don't know.  Learning is continuous.  If what we learn feels right, it usually is.  At least it is right for me.  Sharing insights that usually are viewed as opinions can be theraputic and at times the opposite.  
So goes life.  I shared my thoughts on this subject and everything I said can be rejected.  It may have meaning only to me.
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: science says, "Big bang theory, is wrong."   Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:19 pm

Abe, I agree with the tone of what you say. As a young Christian I had many questions. What I was reading in the Bible did not match what the religions were teaching...yet they made the claim what was not in the Bible, was.  This much I know, and I learned this from the Bible. We can't read the hearts of others...we can't even read our own. Most Christians try to convert others. True the Bible says to make disciples, that does not mean to convert others...but to teach those who want to learn Gods word.
If they don't want to listen, we are to walk away...kick the dust from our feet.
That is not to say those who don't want to listen are doomed. No, that is not what the Bible teaches. All people, except those who have died from a judgment from God, will be given life in the 1,000 year rule of Jesus. All will have a chance for everlasting life. it will depend what a person does. They will either want to serve God his way, or will not. Those who do, will have everlasting life. Those who do not, will be un-created...they will just return back to the earth.
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