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 Another Crisis in Palestine

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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:56 am

In the News.  Another Crisis in Palestine
The Cause:
 
Sickness is often treated to diminish the pain symptoms.  Until the cause is treated and cured, the pain continues.
Conflict is much the same.  Until the cause of the conflict is dealt with and resolved, the conflict continues.
 
For decades we have witnessed conflict in Palestine.  For every action there was a reaction and it continues to this day.  The world knows the cause, but is unwilling to take the action required to solve the problem.   (If one is unsure about the cause, Google it.)
 
It is recognized that the illegal occupation of Palestinian territory is the cause.  The resolutions reached have never been enforced.  We hear about “Land for Peace” proposals.  That statement makes the point that the conflict is about a land grab for a religious State.  Jimmy Carter wrote a book “Peace, not apartheid”.  Nelson Mandela talked about the problem and it was mentioned at his funeral.  The problem is known and yet action is not taken to enforce the rule of law.  Why?
 
We read recently about the abduction and killing of three Israeli youths.  That was followed with a Palestinian youth being abducted by Israeli Settlers and the gruesome killing where they burned the youth alive.  Can that be forgotten?
During the invasion of Lebanon by the Israelis to eradicate the Palestinian refugees living there and the massacre that took place deepened the hate and the resolve to take revenge.  The British reporter who interviewed a Doctor at one of these camps told me that the Palestinian children were being indoctrinated to take revenge and to “never forget” the atrocities that occurred.  It may take years for actions of revenge to take place, but actions of revenge will occur.  Homemade rockets fired into Israel by Hamas are like a pin prick and Israel responds with modern weapons in revenge.  None of these actions, seemingly justified, will solve the problem.  It only ads to the festering wounds and increases the determination to continue the fight. 
 
Israel is ready to negotiate for peace, but only their terms, and those terms are for land.  In reality, there should be no reason for negotiation.  Withdrawing from an illegal occupation is the first step for peace.  The sympathy Israel obtained by using the proclamation that the Arabs want to wipe Israel off the map, is defunct.  Gathered sympathy has been used to support illegal activity.  If we are a nation of laws and believe in justice, why do we support any country or regime that defies the rule of law?  We continue to support and even provide weapons to regimes that defy the general principals that we claim to cherish.  Is our support based on economic reasons primarily where oil is involved?  In the case of Israel/Palestine, it is not about oil, but about religion.  We fight against Islamic religious groups and countries that are controlled by religion and make an exception when it comes to Israel.
 
I don’t support the shooting of rockets into Israel, but I can understand it.  Hamas and Israeli militants are difficult to control.  The efforts for a peaceful solution by past Administrations have not worked.  Why?  There was no enforcement, IMV.
 
There is no way to protect the innocent civilians caught in the middle of this conflict.  Precision bombing doesn’t work and collateral damage will not appease the families who lost loved ones or their homes.  Using punishment as a measure is not working.  That should be obvious given that there are hundreds of Palestinian youths sitting in Israeli jails without trial. 
It is difficult for me to take a “balanced” stance based on what I witnessed and know. 
Once I tried to compare the treatment of the Palestinians with America’s treatment of the Native Americans.  The response was:  “They were Savages”.   I believe that the word “Savage” has been replaced with the word, “Terrorist”.  Both terms are used as justification for killing. 
 
Religion is much like racism.  Although there are laws to control it, it is not eradicated.  Education is thought to be a cure.  Is that true?  Educating the Palestinian youths about their history tends to inflame the hate and desire for retribution. 
 
Hate still exists in some European countries against Germany and that hate is passed on from parent to child.   Forgiveness is a nice word, but that is not in the cards when a religion promotes an “eye for an eye” philosophy. 
 
What can we do?  I wish I had an answer.  We sit on the sidelines and watch.  In years to come, people will say that we should have done something to stop it.  What is that “something”?
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:59 am

Revenge is never the answer yet it controls much of the politics.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:50 pm

That's sprecisely the point, DK.  When solutions are not found, and when solutions are known but not enforced, people take matters into their own hands.  Revenge comes in various forms all of which solve nothing.  Retaliation is the normal response and it becomes difficult to determine for which act retaliation is taken. The politicians of the world don't want to get involved in this most sensitive problem and those responsible for the creation of the problem are silent.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:34 am

Revenge and retaliation thinking begin at home, in our communities and into our governments.

I had a verbal altercation the other day in writing for which I was totally correct about the situation.  I suggested the other party apologize and we would end it there.  That person brought in a third - and I could see escalation occurring. 

My next correspondence read:  I see the best solution is to end this discussion on a positive note with my apology.  I am sorry for the misunderstanding and look forward to meeting with you soon. 

I don't feel good about it, but it ended the situation.  Sometimes, feeling good about a situation is not the answer.  Ending it is.

At one time, trained ombudsmen worked in companies to assist disgruntled customers.  They also worked in government agencies.  The training was magnificent - I took it - and applied, it makes a lot of difference in positive outcomes - not winning outcomes, but solutions.

We need armies of ombudsmen/women instead of warriors.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:37 am

The crap continues.  The Palestinians are warned to flee and seek a safe haven.  They were told the same thing in 1948, and they fled.  Afterwards they were not permitted to return and the land they fled was occupied.  I don’t think they will fall for that ruse this time.
Secondly, for a country that denies having nuclear weapons, why are they afraid that their nuclear facility will be hit?
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:54 pm

7/17/2014

               I'm so tired of it ! All my life I have always believed strip away someone's
               color, their religion, what do you have the same dam human being as everyone
               else and man doesn't get it, why I don't know, we all have souls, we all eat, we
               all breathe ............

                                                            Cheers..Joe
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:43 am

The similarities between Judaism and Islam are very interesting.  Google it or see this one reference:
http://www.judaism-islam.com/similarities-between-judaism-and-islam/
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:50 pm

I always loved Star Trek the original series.  Remember the one where two races were at war and they were trying to explain why.  "Look at him," said one.  "And look at him," said the other.  The person looking saw the same face.  "No, his face is black on the other side; we are not the same."  Both had faces split down the middle, black on one side and white on the other - except the difference was which side was black or white.

So many things about which we fight are as simple as that.  They become complicated however by the economics of war, the revenge for past wrongs, the emotions and propaganda, the fears of loss and deprivation - and the list goes on.  The basic disagreements among humans are really very small.

I was once trained as an ombudsman.  One bit of the training was to take the two parties and work with them to find the smallest thing in common and build from there.  In most cases, it was their desire to do the right thing.  Amazing what harm people cause in the belief that they are doing the right thing.
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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:28 pm

Diane, you are a profound soul. You have answers.
I believe in you.
Love,
Betty
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:59 pm

What Betty said.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:37 am

You guys are too kind. 

I have always said the common denominator is our blood - it runs red and is transferable within the same blood types (and I'm what's called a universal donor) and without defects - across the globe to all races, religions and whatever.  Perhaps that is the the common denominator of our Creator that we are just too stupid to get - we are one.  We are one human race.

Then yesterday I saw a graphic example of my long held belief - several bags of blood in a poster and the question about a dying child needing blood and whether you would ask the source.  I do believe that some people are so hateful that they might.

I do believe in love and that loving is our purpose on this earth - to love and to learn and to share what we have learned.  I do admit, however, that in spite of my beliefs I have felt hate and anger and envy and righteous indignation and rage.  I have felt hurt and sadness and self-pity - all the emotions I believe are wasted energy.

People have been unkind to me and said terrible things about me.  They saw a different person than who I believe I am or intend to be or their own pain had them look for the worst in me.

That is the pity of hate and prejudice.  If it's what we carry, we gather around us the information that proves our hate and prejudice are justified - that we are right. 

It seems we have in our nature the need to be "right."  Often at an astronomically high cost.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:41 am

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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:48 am

DK wrote:
I do believe in love and that loving is our purpose on this earth - to love and to learn and to share what we have learned. I do admit, however, that in spite of my beliefs I have felt hate and anger and envy and righteous indignation and rage. I have felt hurt and sadness and self-pity - all the emotions I believe are wasted energy.

People have been unkind to me and said terrible things about me. They saw a different person than who I believe I am or intend to be or their own pain had them look for the worst in me.

That is the pity of hate and prejudice. If it's what we carry, we gather around us the information that proves our hate and prejudice are justified - that we are right

We all get angry; we hate, we envy. It's a part of who we are. The thing is, we need to own it, as you have. "I have felt [it]," you said. And tht is a big part of the answer. When we recognize that we have those negative capabilities, even sometimes give in to them, we have more power over them, and can control them better. Remember when Kirk told a group of aggressors, "We can say, 'I will not kill - today,'"?

When we own our prejudices, the need to justify them lessens. We can see "the other" as having a valid perspective as well. It's a beginning, anyway.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:55 pm

Yes, I remember that line.  I dated a man who had the entire Star Trek series and we watched them all from the preview through the movies.  I was in love with a man who loved Star Trek.  Unfortunately, loving Star Trek was not quite enough...

It still comes on my MEtv channel and I enjoy the episodes that are as relevant today (unfortunately) as when filmed. I ignore the lack of clothing on the females - they at least had relevant parts in the episodes, clothed or not.  I think it was a series targeted to men, anyway.  What woman at that time liked sci fi?  Women were watching Dr. Kildare I think.

But not to go too far off the Palestine topic.  Most everyone I speak to in this regard say it is hopeless.  That the people of the Middle East have been killing off tribes for religious reasons since the beginning of time and will until the end.  What a hopeless thought!  For goodness sake, I thought the people of Israel were well-educated and that they found the answers to provide for everyone, including the steady stream of immigrants.  I thought educated people would figure out a peaceful solution.

My understanding is that most of the people with whom they are at war have desperate situations of poverty and lack of economic viability.  The uneven balance should offer ideas for solutions.

Am I completely off base?
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:16 pm

7/24/2014

                    DK..

                        Your not off base, I just heard on the radio that the ISIS I think that's
            what they call themselves have completely taken Mosulu Iraq, incorporated Shiria
            law and one of the laws is Female Gentilia Mutilation, I don't see any out cry? I do
            believe their are zealots in every religion I've seen it, the minute I even get that kind
            of hint I back away becuse I've always believed in my heart that God is not that
            way and yes I feel sorry for the children and poor people who are caught up in this
            insanity wether it's Iraq, Israel, Palenstine, ask any of those people and they will
            tell you they want to live in peace, have food, shelter and yes their children are very
            important to them, sometimes I get so disgusted I won't watch the news because I 
            know me being one human being can't stop this, it's a religious war, we need another
            Ghandi or Dr. Martin Luther King......
                                                                 Joe
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:54 pm

Joe, your frustration is shared by many.  We react to news reports believing what we hear to be factual.  That is where caution should be exercised.  Sensationalism in reporting can cause distortion.   From what I read and hear, there seems to be a common feeling that it is religious fanaticism that is responsible.  I think there is much truth in that assessment and good reason to safeguard our own country against fanaticism.  Whether it is Islam, Judaism or Christianity, there are extremists who blacken the good in religion.   
We are opposed to the actions of ISIS in Iraq.  We oppose the militant actions of the Jews in Israel.   There are more examples, but in these two cases, the ulterior motive is clear.  With ISIS, it appears to be the establishment of an Islamic State.  With Israel, it is to acquire land and remove the indigenous population.   
The world has changed since the scriptures were written.   Prevailing economic and politics influenced what was written.  The ancient way of life doesn’t fit our world today.  That is the rub with religious fanatics that want to cling to the past.  It doesn’t work.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:57 am

7/25/2014

                       Read this it would make your blood turn cold..
                                                Joe
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/23/world/meast/syria-iraq-terror-havens/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:18 am

I just wrote a lengthy response to Joe’s post and somehow it was deleted before I could post it.
There is cause for concern, Joe.  Terror is spreading and there is a reason.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:33 am

The crux of the problem is the illegal occupation of Palestinian territory.  Based on past and present actions by Israel, it appears that the intent of Israel is the acquisition of more Palestinian territory and they do it in segments.  One could call it Extermination of the Palestinian people.  Genocide is a better description.  In previous militant actions, Israel placed a blockade around Palestine.  It caused the Palestinians to dig tunnels to bring in food and supplies.  These same life-line tunnels were later used to bring in weapons.  The size and type of weapons that can be smuggled through a tunnel is limited.  Israel claims the right to defend itself.  What about the right of the Palestinians to protect themselves?  They have no army and the only group that acts in their defense is Hamas.   The downside of Hamas support is to give Israel an excuse to occupy and destroy by labeling them terrorists.  This latest round of conflict is causing many to turn against Israel.  Demonstrations in London, in Paris, in Amsterdam, in Berlin and a few other countries are calling on Israel to stop the massacre of Palestinian civilians.  In Germany, the elderly say nothing.  The young are not so inhibited, however when they act, they are now cast as “The revival of Nazism”.   Even Jews are demonstrating against the Israeli government stating that Israel does not represent the Jewish community.  Last week an American Jew, with passport in hand, stood on the streets of Israel and said that as a Jew, he thought what the Israeli government was doing was wrong.  The police arrived, wrestled him to the ground and hauled him away.  So much for freedom of speech in Israel.
The Palestinians are living in a prison and being picked off like sitting ducks. Humanitarian Aid is prevented from reaching the Palestinians.  Safe houses, even those run by the UN are targeted.  Israel claims it was an accident, but I don’t buy it.  Accidents like this cannot be blamed on “Pinpoint accuracy” gone awry. Palestinians are forced to flee and wind up in Refugee Camps.  That does not mean they are safe.  I personally witnessed the bombing of a Palestinian Refugee Camp by the Israeli military that they denied.  Refugee camps are much like concentration camps.   Although the Israelis don’t use gas chambers, the end result is the same.  Dead is dead regardless of the killing method. 
Silence gives support to these atrocities.  The only weapon we have is the pen, and this day and age, it is the keyboard and the I-Net.  We can fight with words.  Trying to convince someone that you are right is difficult and not effective.  Challenging people to think for themselves and to do their own research is more effective.  Information is available for those seeking answers, however people being lazy, listen to propaganda stations, like Fox News for their information.
Israel has used intimidation to keep people quiet.  That is no longer as effective as it once was.  The “Anti-Semitic” label is still used; however that too is losing its effectiveness.  If I am to be given a label for speaking out against injustice, then I will gladly accept any label.  Ask yourself.  “What have I done to help save a life?”  “Do I care or is it not my problem?” 
 
America is complicit with the atrocities inflicted on the Palestinians by supplying the weapons used by the Israelis.  To stop these militant actions, I suggest that we cut funding and the materials used to make war.  Regardless of rhetoric, I personally don’t believe that the Israeli government wants peace.  I believe their objective is to acquire all of the Palestinian territory.  Their past and present actions support this view.  The security of Israel is dependent on the actions of Israel.  Providing their neighbor with security will give them security.
 
The above is just my view, for whatever it is worth.  I refuse to be muzzled.  You can “unfriend” me on FB or block my posts on this forum, but I will continue to speak my mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:16 pm

Abe,

You need to get over your shyness and tell us what you really feel!

You realize, of course, you are saying Joan Rivers is wrong.  That’s pretty gutsy.  If she finds out, she’s liable to call you a bad name on TV.

The entire Middle East has more hate and suffering going on than can be believed.  NONE of the factions are blameless.  The stronger try to conquer the weaker.  The weaker try and use terror to become the stronger.  It’s been going on for four thousand years or more.  Any peace that is made never lasts.  

Whose right and whose wrong…I don’t pretend to know.  I do know that unless ALL of the warring factions sit down and hash it out with words instead of rockets and bombs, it WILL not be resolved for another four thousand years.

JMHO

God Bless
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:21 pm

Thanks Don.  
 You said: "Whose right and whose wrong…I don’t pretend to know.  I do know that unless ALL of the warring factions sit down and hash it out with words instead of rockets and bombs, it WILL not be resolved for another four thousand years."

Don, that is a good summation.  Who is right and who is wrong is the question.  If one hears just one side of an issue, it becomes the "right" side.  A balance is needed and that requires a look at the opposing side.  I find it curious that much of the continued action in Gaza is occuring while other events are in the news thus dividing the attention.  We are influenced by the news.  The news I hear and the images I see may be different from what is seen in the USA.  I do watch CNN and that is the main source for my view of US news.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:39 am

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10203531350459351&set=vb.1082109667&type=2&theater
A must view.  Delivered by a Jew in the British Parliment.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:59 am

7/29/2014

                      Abe..

                             Read this, this is beautiful and it's on Face Book..
                                                   Joe
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jews-Muslims-and-People-of-All-Faiths-United-Against-Hate/258451600893
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:02 am

Yes, Joe.  Finally some truth coming out.  I applaud the courage and honesty of that Jew.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:42 am

Palestine
 
The occupation continues with new outbreaks of violence.  Nothing new about this nor has the reaction from the West changed.
 
In the 1970’s when I was in Beirut and witnessed aggression against Palestinian refugees, I wanted to learn the cause of the problem and thus began my search for truth.  My knowledge was based on what I had heard in the news.  My attitude mirrored that of most Americans that Israel was the victim.  My research included interviews/conversations with Palestinians living in the camps.  What I learned is recorded in my book. Originally titled: “To Beirut and Back”.  It has been updated and the new title is:  “First American Back.”
The big news at that time was high jacking of aircraft.  I wanted to know why the Palestinians resorted to terrorist tactics instead of peaceful means.  The response was: “We have tried peaceful means and have complained to the UN often, but nothing happened.  So long as we remained silent we were forgotten.  Only when we took drastic actions was our plight brought to world attention. 
 
In the years following, the occupation increased with more Israeli settlements in the occupied territory.  Not a single UN Resolution against the occupation was honored by Israel. Many more resolutions proffered by the UN were Vetoed by the US.   There were subsequent events for peace, i.e., “The Oslo Accords” with mutual agreement that required Israel to withdraw.  They too were not honored.  In the recent meeting at the UN, Palestinian President Abbas stated that if Israel didn’t honor the Oslo agreements, then the Palestinians were not obligated to honor it.  The result is new outbreaks of violence.  The resistance to the illegal occupation is branded by Israel as acts of terrorism and they respond with overwhelming force claiming the right to defend themselves.  Have you heard any politician talk about the right of Palestinians to defend themselves?  What weapons do the Palestinians have to defend themselves against Israel with US supplied tanks, aircraft and numerous other weapons?  When Israel cut-off the Palestinians supplies for food and materials, they began to dig tunnels to bring in supplies for survival.  In the process they also smuggled in small arm weapons.  These tunnels were quickly bombed and used as another excuse as self-defense.
 
During periods of calm, nothing was done to advance peace.  IMV, the frustration of the Palestinians is once again being shown and acts of resistance are being met with over-powering force by Israel. 
 
There has been sincere efforts made by the US in resolving the problem and that was initiated by President Carter with the Camp David accords.  The agreement reached was not honored by the Israeli leaders.  A good and informative book was written by President Carter:  “Peace not Apartheid”.  He was heavily criticized for this book.  Much of the criticism attempted to discredit him, but Mr. Carter did not back down.  If you want to understand the events leading up to the present, this book can give you a good summary with factual information.
 
On FB, people are frustrated with America’s political process and ask the question:  “What can we do?”  My response is to continue to speak out and use the Internet to voice your opinions and concern.  I find the same to be true with the Israel-Palestinian dilemma.  There is a solution to the problem, but that solution is not politically acceptable, primarily due to the strong Israeli lobby in the US.  Even the churches preach on how they must support “God’s chosen people” ignoring that what they do is contrary to the teaching of Christ..  The solution to this ongoing problem is for Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories and accept a two-state solution.
 
Recently, it was reported that oil was discovered in the Golan Heights – within the occupied territories.  Will oil once again be a detriment to peace?
If you are interested in truth, do some research.  Speaking out against all forms of evil and wrong doing can help.  Being silent suggests compliance.  Being ignorant is no excuse
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PostSubject: Re: Another Crisis in Palestine   

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Another Crisis in Palestine
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