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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sat May 03, 2014 9:51 am

Breitbart? †A survey of only 1000 people? †What were the criteria for their selection?

Just askin'. †Smile
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sat May 03, 2014 10:43 am

I would be interested in learning what Farmers would say about Climate Change.† I know what local Farmers think, but curious how their views are shared on a large scale.

Betty, what is your take on Climate Change?† Have you noticed any change over the years?
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sat May 03, 2014 10:59 am

Breitbart is political commentator that is part of the head in the sand movement so that business and industry may continue to destroy the earth with impunity and bring in the profits from which he earns his income.† He has no creditability except among those that pull his opinions to support causes for which there is little documented evidence but great money mills creating propaganda.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sat May 03, 2014 11:09 am

This is one of those times I wish I was wrong.† Sort of like when I managed the weather equipment on the sailboat.† I would advise against leaving port because of the weather reports and my spouse would stick his wet finger into the air and say, "It looks fine to me," because it was in his interest to sail regardless of the safety.† As we sailed out of the harbor, I hoped the sophisticated weather equipment was wrong.
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Shelagh
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sat May 03, 2014 12:08 pm

dkchristi wrote:
This is one of those times I wish I was wrong.† Sort of like when I managed the weather equipment on the sailboat.† I would advise against leaving port because of the weather reports and my spouse would stick his wet finger into the air and say, "It looks fine to me," because it was in his interest to sail regardless of the safety.† As we sailed out of the harbor, I hoped the sophisticated weather equipment was wrong.

You're still here to tell the tale.

Ann, my post was tongue in cheek. I said that DK and I knew as little as each other and posted a link to another website that fitted into the same category.

Average temperatures have gone up by 1.5 degrees in the last 60 or so years. No one knows why and no one knows if this trend will continue. When we visited New Zealand, the country suffered its worst rainfall/flooding for 56 years and the airport in Dunedin was closed for fifty-two days.

On our return, having experienced three consecutive winters on both sides of the Equator, we booked a holiday in Malta, mid-January. The island had its first snowfall in twenty-five years!

People don't normally live until they are a hundred, so if you experienced record breaking weather once or twice, it's unlikely that you will suffer it again in your lifetime. All the scientists making predictions about global warming and its causes will be long dead by the time their predictions are proved true of false. I'll be dead too!

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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sat May 03, 2014 4:36 pm

5/2/2014

† † † † † † † † † Look what happened to these poor guys...Just think you could
† † † † † † † † † have been dinner ? I can't upload any photos !!!

† † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † †Cheers † Joe
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Shelagh
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 4:19 am

Just another thought. Volcanic eruptions cause global cooling. Maybe the Earth is warming up because of reduced volcanic activity. It's difficult to measure something that isn't happening!

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Don Stephens
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 7:17 am

What caused the "Ice Age"? Dinosaur farts?
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 8:32 am

Good question, Don.
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 8:47 am

Don Stephens wrote:
What caused the "Ice Age"? †Dinosaur farts?

Ah, the trexhouse gases effect.

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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 10:34 am

You know? We all have concerns about the future, but the truth is, whatever might set it in motion, we can still only have control over ourselves, and all that we have that is real is the present moment. When we spend our present moments fearing our possible futures, we write them - as fearful realities.

When we spend those same present moments living in the joy of the moments themselves, we multiply our chances of living similar moments in the future.

Our future reality is created by our attitudes in the present moment.

We are all a part of the process, so when we reach a point - a critical mass - when enough of us project positive thoughts out into the universe, we will bring that positive future into being - together.

Just Annie.

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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 12:31 pm

Sorry, Annie.† It ain't gonna happen that way because of human nature the world over, historical and it appears, into the future.

As to past climate changes, no one disputes that the world is in constant change. However, the behavior of the current generation of homo sapiens contributes negatively to the environment and hastens the current changes resulting in adverse affects on the flora and fauna and human life.

We can live in the joyful moment of course.† That's what people do.† However, visionaries have always concerned themselves with the future and to them we owe a lot of what makes our present joyful.

When I started this thread it was with the assumption that the recent international reports indicating that climate change is resulting from our misuse of our resources in combination with natural phenomena made the issue moot and we would simply be discussing potential solutions.† That shows what assumptions do.

I also thought that a few of our more scientific oriented forum members might contribute their solution ideas, too but it seems more of the philosophical types have chimed in, me included.† I do know that politics impacts us all, however, even those with a scientific orientation.† So does the profit motive.† Thus, unbiased information is difficult to come by.† I do put stock in NOAA, however. and the international organization that recently issued the report that the global change was a reality about which we need to have concern if we wish to preserve the current species on this earth and even some of the islands and their population rights to have a home.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 1:20 pm

DK wrote:
We can live in the joyful moment of course. That's what people do. However, visionaries have always concerned themselves with the future and to them we owe a lot of what makes our present joyful.


Absolutely! But those visionaries beleived in the future they were promoting. They were positive in their faith and belief that the future could be better, and that working for their dreams was worthwhile.

When you say that there is no hope for a better future, that "It ain't gonna happen," then you are resigning yourself to a world without hope. Focusing on what is wrong with the present and saying there is no hope for change cannot bring about change.

Visionaries have a positive view of a better world. They believe in their vision and focus their attention on encouraging others and working to bring it about.

As Kennedy said, "Some people look at the world the way it is and say 'Why?' I look at the world the way it can be and say, 'Why not?'"

It's all about where we focus our attention, and believing in our vision so that we have hope we can make it a reality.

Just me.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 2:44 pm

I don't see anyone offering concrete solutions. Positive energy needs positive action. I can talk nice nice but without evidence of action its just words.
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 2:52 pm

Agreed, but how does saying things aren't going to change lead to positive action?
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Domenic Pappalardo
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 3:03 pm

One of the largest Ice masses on land is Greenland. If global warming had the effect to warm the air around the earth, the Greenland Ice mass would be melting from the top. Science has already proven, the Greenland Ice mass is not melting from the top, but the bottom. The height of the ocean at sea level is also higher at latitude 38 (San Francisco is at 38) and above, is higher than the oceans below latitude 38. Here is what this means..."Due to the rotation of the earth which is 1,000 mph at the
Equator the speed of the rotation is faster above latitude 38. Any water from melting ice will be spun toward the poles. This shift of weight will change the axis of the earth. If this happens, earth could† fall over on its side. The South pole would be always be facing the sun. Our rotation would remain the same, which means the complete Southern part of the earth (South pole)†would always have daylight, and the North pole area always darkness.

The whole weather pattern would change. We could have very little rain, if any. and wind storms in the hundreds of MPH. Earth would be like a gyro† laying on its side...that effect could pull the earth out of orbit. Nothing would grow on the section facing the sun due to heat, and nothing would grow on the dark side due to the cold.
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 3:09 pm

DK, if you are looking for scientific solutions, there aren't any. Sure, we could make oil drilling and fracking illegal like prohibition in the 1930s (that worked well didn't it?) but we really would only shift the energy providers, and not the energy users or the amount of energy used.

From a scientific point of view, the case for blaming human activity for the increase in the Earth's temperature is not proven. For now, it's an assumption.

Expert system computer programs are devised to perform the same decision making processes that an expert applies to reach a conclusion or diagnosis. When expert system development was in its early stages, a team of researchers from the University of Strathclyde visited a cheese factory. The maturity of the cheese was determined by an expert who made several tests when the cheese reached maturity to determine if it was ready to be marketed. The researchers developed a system based on the tests that the expert performed, but the computer program was not as accurate as the expert, who was always right.

Eventually, after watching the expert perform the cheese assessment numerous times and questioning him at every stage, a variable that had not been taken into consideration came to light. All the tests that were performed on the cheese produced data that was of less importance than the missing variable -- which was SMELL. When the expert performed the test, he cut up the cheese to take the measurements and crumbled it to assess the texture, and all the time he was performing the tests, he was releasing gases from the cheese that he could smell. From years of experience, he knew, unfailingly, when the cheese had reached the right stage of maturity.

By comparison, weather experts have gathered a great deal of data and they know that global warming has taken place over the last few decades. The missing ingredient is still missing. We know the effect, but we don't know the cause. Scientists look at the weather records since recordings began and see that the recent increase in global warming occurred at the same time as an increase in greenhouse gases along with an increase in CO2 (fossil burning), CFCs and HFCs (refrigeration). They linked the two together. Eventually, they might find the missing ingredient that is the true cause of global warming. It might be something so obvious that we wondered why no one spotted it, or it might be the discovery of something completely unknown.

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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 3:26 pm

... or Domenic could be right and the world will topple over, spin itself into a frenzy, fly off into space and collide with Mars. Who knows?

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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 4:03 pm

I think that people who have the focus on long term climate changes are working out what will happen "if".† I believe these people and their predictions.† It is not about who to blame, but about how can a person like me or you change the destruction of this planet.
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 4:15 pm

Betty Fasig wrote:
I think that people who have the focus on long term climate changes are working out what will happen "if".† I believe these people and their predictions.† It is not about who to blame, but about how can a person like me or you change the destruction of this planet.

What if the only solution was to leave oil in the ground and stop the production of all of its bi-products including motor gasoline? How would it affect your life if you had to use a horse and cart instead of a truck?

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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 4:39 pm

You might find this article interesting, Betty. I would be interested to hear your views on global farming:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/10318052/No-Sir-David-Attenborough-the-end-of-the-world-is-not-nigh.html

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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Sun May 04, 2014 10:43 pm

All the controversy about Global warming and Climate Change boils down to common sense.
Do we need scientific proof over common sense before action is taken to preserve our planet?
I may be alone in my observations and beliefs, but I just donít understand why people must have someone in a higher authority, i.e., Scientists to tell them there is a problem.† We know our rivers are polluted and it doesnít take a Scientist to tell us that.† Will we wait until the well has run dry before we act?†
Those who depend on Mother Nature for their livelihood and provide food are more in tune with Climate Change than the consumer.†† Even in the wine region where I live I hear about the change in harvest seasons. †Farmers plan their planting based on historic weather patterns.† Planted too soon, the seeds may rot in the ground from excessive water.† Planted too late, the expected harvest may not mature in time.†
Grapes are affected much by the weather.† It is not just the growing of the grape, but also the ripening that will produce a good harvest.† Natural sugar in the grape comes from the needed sunshine before harvest.† When the weather fails to provide this ingredient, many are forced to use additives, i.e., sugar for the production of good wine.† Then Scientists along with common sense will say that additives are harmful to consumption. †
Recognizing the cause of a problem is the problem we face.† Has denial become a science?
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Mon May 05, 2014 2:12 am

Common semse, eh, Abe? Empirical evidence v agenda-driven prediction fantasies: read this:

http://www.c3headlines.com/hysteria-droughtfloodcrop-failuresforest-fires/

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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Mon May 05, 2014 2:25 am

Cows can turn desert into pasture:


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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: Climate Change   Mon May 05, 2014 5:12 am

It is possible to search the internet for. Articles funded by those who profit from unfettered destruction of the planet. It is interesting that while they label climate warming quackery they admit to its occurrence. They are confused by their own premise. Reality is that even the production of our food supply is potentially a threat to health and many countries won't import food from the U.S. industrial corporate methods.We may produce more food but at what long term cost? Once again short term profits ignore future ramifications.
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